General GunTuber thread

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Do you have the clip of Hop making fun of AK enjoyers? That sounds like a fun watch.
Unfortunately not. I can try to find it again later. I know it was before July. But I didn't see it on his live page anymore.

Also relating to the shorty AR discussion. If you're going so short just go 300 blk.

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Accuracy differences between 11.5 and 20 inches at 500 yards is going to be fairly minimal while lethality will be exactly the same.
Depends on what you mean by "accuracy." Shorter barrels need heavier projectiles to fight against wind at distance due to the lower velocity. You also really need to know what your holdovers are going to be due to the lower velocity. As for lethality, it depends on the projectile type, among other variables. 55gr FMJ really needs velocity to fragment, but there are a variety of bullets on the market that will fragment reliably at relatively low velocities, even down to 1800fps, which can get you out to 250 yards out of an 11.5". Of course there's also the tumble/yaw factor for wounding for certain bullets.

I love my 11.5" but M193/55gr FMJ undeniably has more potential for lethality at distance out of a 20," and 55gr is everywhere. That matters if you're worried about a SHTF total collapse situation, but not so much otherwise. If you sling a few rounds of 5.56 into some dude's chest at 50 yards, he's not going to notice the bullet type he was hit with, or how fast it was going.
 
Interestingly the writer that originally wrote "you don't need a 20 inch or longer barrel" article, was only writing about hunting rifles in both short and long action. As it was written about 4 or 5 years before 9/11. The M-16, M4, AR-15 shortened barrel length discussions didn't really commence until after Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom started turning into unending shitshows in 04-05.
 
Interestingly the writer that originally wrote "you don't need a 20 inch or longer barrel" article, was only writing about hunting rifles in both short and long action. As it was written about 4 or 5 years before 9/11. The M-16, M4, AR-15 shortened barrel length discussions didn't really commence until after Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom started turning into unending shitshows in 04-05.
Franky i don't understand why you'd have such a shorty 5.56 nowadays when you can use the same barrel length and mags for 300blk and get full powder burn and energy potential. And it suppresses far better. At those lower velocities 5.56 won't fragment much if at all, may as well throw a bigger boolet that will reliably expand. I'm talking like 10-12 inch barrel lengths. You're starting to really compromise what makes 5.56/.223 so lethal. Not that it's non lethal suddenly, but it's definitely suboptimal. Plus the increased parts wear on Mk18 length builds. Which aren't as common anymore tbf.
 
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  • Disagree
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Franky i don't understand why you'd have such a shorty 5.56 nowadays when you can use the same barrel length and mags for 300blk and get full powder burn and energy potential. And it suppresses far better.
.300 BLK ammo is more expensive than 5.56, especially when you get into the nice heavy monolithic copper projectiles that turn into beautiful flowers of death at subsonic velocity. That shit is the best ammo for a really short and quiet suppressed home defense weapon.

Quality .300 BLK guns are also more expensive compared to a decent 5.56 AR. You really need an upper with an adjustable gas block to shoot both supersonic and subsonic .300 BLK. That's why guns like the Honey Badger and Rattler have adjustable gas blocks. The barrel needs a big gas port to cycle subs, so if you shoot supers with the same barrel without an adjustable gas block, the gun's going to be punchy and gassy as fuck. If you don't want to buy something like the Honey Badger or Rattler and would rather build an upper, you're going to be spending $200 for a Riflespeed adjustable gas block (the only 3rd party adjustable gas block worth a shit, in my opinion). Also, almost all the cheap .300 BLK barrels are 1/7 twist, which isn't optimal for the heavy subsonic loads. You want a 1/5 twist barrel. The best inexpensive option there is Rosco's 7.5" barrel for $160.

I'm not a fan of Q or Sig, so I've been planning on going the DIY route. I just keep putting it off because I know I'm going to have to spend a good amount of money just testing the gun with various ammo, and that's after I spend $1k+ on a decent suppressor for it.
 
.300 BLK ammo is more expensive than 5.56, especially when you get into the nice heavy monolithic copper projectiles that turn into beautiful flowers of death at subsonic velocity. That shit is the best ammo for a really short and quiet suppressed home defense weapon.

Quality .300 BLK guns are also more expensive compared to a decent 5.56 AR. You really need an upper with an adjustable gas block to shoot both supersonic and subsonic .300 BLK. That's why guns like the Honey Badger and Rattler have adjustable gas blocks. The barrel needs a big gas port to cycle subs, so if you shoot supers with the same barrel without an adjustable gas block, the gun's going to be punchy and gassy as fuck. If you don't want to buy something like the Honey Badger or Rattler and would rather build an upper, you're going to be spending $200 for a Riflespeed adjustable gas block (the only 3rd party adjustable gas block worth a shit, in my opinion). Also, almost all the cheap .300 BLK barrels are 1/7 twist, which isn't optimal for the heavy subsonic loads. You want a 1/5 twist barrel. The best inexpensive option there is Rosco's 7.5" barrel for $160.

I'm not a fan of Q or Sig, so I've been planning on going the DIY route. I just keep putting it off because I know I'm going to have to spend a good amount of money just testing the gun with various ammo, and that's after I spend $1k+ on a decent suppressor for it.
I don't understand the argument people make about defense loads being more expensive for .300. It's the same with every defense load, you're supposed to use training ammo to train. Yeah it might be more expensive but you shouldn't be using the fancy stuff year round, just like every other caliber.

I built a .300 a while ago and got the superlative arms gas block (don't get it, the bleed off gimmick isn't universal) and it's lived at the same setting (dedicated suppressor). Overgassing supersonic rounds isn't a big deal. It's how the vast majority of 5.56 guns are setup. No it's not optimal but it's not that bad and the trade off is you get to use supers and subs (pretty big upside).

Still imo .300 makes more sense as a mostly dedicated subsonic gun and isn't a straight replacement for 5.56 but I think the effective suppression is highly underrated.
 
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.300 BLK ammo is more expensive than 5.56, especially when you get into the nice heavy monolithic copper projectiles that turn into beautiful flowers of death at subsonic velocity. That shit is the best ammo for a really short and quiet suppressed home defense weapon.

Quality .300 BLK guns are also more expensive compared to a decent 5.56 AR. You really need an upper with an adjustable gas block to shoot both supersonic and subsonic .300 BLK. That's why guns like the Honey Badger and Rattler have adjustable gas blocks. The barrel needs a big gas port to cycle subs, so if you shoot supers with the same barrel without an adjustable gas block, the gun's going to be punchy and gassy as fuck. If you don't want to buy something like the Honey Badger or Rattler and would rather build an upper, you're going to be spending $200 for a Riflespeed adjustable gas block (the only 3rd party adjustable gas block worth a shit, in my opinion). Also, almost all the cheap .300 BLK barrels are 1/7 twist, which isn't optimal for the heavy subsonic loads. You want a 1/5 twist barrel. The best inexpensive option there is Rosco's 7.5" barrel for $160.

I'm not a fan of Q or Sig, so I've been planning on going the DIY route. I just keep putting it off because I know I'm going to have to spend a good amount of money just testing the gun with various ammo, and that's after I spend $1k+ on a decent suppressor for it.
I've seen people just fine with a BCM 300 upper with subs and supers and suppressed. How are the BRN 180s? The new ones are apparently even better and it's adjustable gas 300blk for yeah $1200 for an upper but they do go on sale. 1/6 twist. The gen 3s are brand new so still pricey. Four settings for the 300 Blackout.


 
Still imo .300 makes more sense as a mostly dedicated subsonic gun and isn't a straight replacement for 5.56 but I think the effective suppression is highly underrated.
I basically agree. If I build a .300 BLK upper, I'd like it to comfortably cycle both subs and supers, but honestly at the end of the day, it would really be meant to be used solely as a suppressed subsonic home defense gun.

How are the BRN 180s?
No clue. Never shot one, haven't looked into them.
 
what 5.56mm round is fragmenting at 500 yards?
One of the ones that still expands down at 1800-1900fps, if you can get it going at least that fast at 500 yards. Might require some handloading experimentation and testing on gel at 500 yards for someone that dedicated if none of the current cartridges chrono well enough out of a 20" barrel.

Tbh, I don't really think about or care about this kind of thing because it veers way too much into BUT WHAT IF? territory for me. If you're primarily popping dudes at 500+ yards 5.56 isn't the caliber for that anyway.
 
They are the same cartridge, one of them is fired from an AK and one from an AR-15.
Except my wife or kid can't load one of my VZ58 mags into my AR and cause a KB.

When silencers become OTC I might get some 300blk, but I'm not looking to register anything and I need NODs before I spend money on any of that shit.
 
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They are the same cartridge, one of them is fired from an AK and one from an AR-15.
"Hmm, yes. I would like an expensive round based entirely around the gimmick of a suppressor I will never buy instead of a cheap round that outperforms it."

Sentences uttered by the utterly deranged.
 
"Hmm, yes. I would like an expensive round based entirely around the gimmick of a suppressor I will never buy instead of a cheap round that outperforms it."

Sentences uttered by the utterly deranged.
The entire point of those two rounds in a practical sense is shooting it from a suppressed gun. .300BLK is obviously the choice for an AR platform, which is the superior choice anyway. The only reason to shoot 7.62x39 is if you like shooting vintage AKs or SKS rifles. Other than that, it's obsolete. We found out 50-60 years ago that a .22 caliber round is ideal for an assault rifle. There is a reason that there are basically only third world nigger countries still using that round as their main cartridge (and us in Finland lol, but we are going to replace it soon with 5.56).
 
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