General GunTuber thread

[Corn Flakes]

I'll give 5.7 one thing: it's a fun caliber to shoot. I enjoyed my time with pretty much 5.7 pistol I got to fire.

That said, I wouldn't have one for anything other than a range toy, and even then I have a whole list of guns I'd get before I go for something specifically chambered in 5.7mm.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I'm still wondering where this guy gets there being a legion of advocates for it. The only retards who thought taking on .45 ACP was a good idea was Glock.

I do agree that the fanboying over 5.7 is ridiculous though.

I don't really have much room to speak here since I'm admittedly a big .357 SIG fanboy but yeah, 5.7x28 suffers massively from crippling overspecialization.

 

[HelpingNoone]

California-centric guntuber Reno May does that for me. None of his content is particularly objectionable from what I've seen but something about him just rubs me the wrong way.

He's a proficient communicator but one too many references to White Claw did it for me.





I think 300 Blackout was another nail in the 5.7 and 4.6 coffin. A lot easier to reload too.
I do want an MP7 though, even if I could never feed it....

 

[Uranus Pink]

Thanks to the Ft. Hood massacre it been proven 5.7x28 will kill a person when they're hit center mass.

edit: the .357 SIG bottleneck design made reloading it a major pain killing its prospects with the reloader crowd.

 

[White Devil]

Thanks to the Ft. Hood massacre it been proven 5.7x28 will kill a person when they're hit center mass.

edit: the .357 SIG bottleneck design made reloading it a major pain killing its prospects with the reloader crowd.

Anything will kill someone center mass if you're piercing organs. I don't think anyone doubts the lethality capability of 5.7, it's just that it was made for a single purpose which didn't really include every day use.

 

[Archie_Kimkicker]

Anything will kill someone center mass if you're piercing organs. I don't think anyone doubts the lethality capability of 5.7, it's just that it was made for a single purpose which didn't really include every day use.

Expanding on this for those less knowledgable...the lethality of a projectile is irrelevant compared to its ability to rapidly incapacitate in the anticipated situation. If someone is coming after me, I don't necessarily care if my ammo kills them next week, I want my ammo to put them on their back immediately.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

I used to work at a high volume gunshop and I've only ever seen one, the guy was told that we wouldn't take it in trade because no one wants to buy it.

Last weekend I saw a box of .45GAP in the wild for the first time, ever. For context, we've had more 7.65 Steyr & Arisaka ammo on our shelves than that shit.

Thanks to the Ft. Hood massacre it been proven 5.7x28 will kill a person when they're hit center mass.

A couple guys I knew were in that, used to be in my company GSE & battalion S4 shops before heading to 4ID.
I talked to one a few years later after randomly running into him at the old range, and he admitted to not being the first Ft. Hood survivor who bought a 5.7; and bought his not for the performance, but the capacity.

edit: the .357 SIG bottleneck design made reloading it a major pain killing its prospects with the reloader crowd.

How so? My biggest concern for that was always reloadability; but it turned out 7.62x25 was the only bottleneck pistol cartridge I'd ever want or need lol.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

How so? My biggest concern for that was always reloadability; but it turned out 7.62x25 was the only bottleneck pistol cartridge I'd ever want or need lol.

It doesn't, reloading .357 SIG isn't hard at all and the bottleneck doesn't really effect case life span that I've noticed at least.

 

[White Devil]

Expanding on this for those less knowledgable...the lethality of a projectile is irrelevant compared to its ability to rapidly incapacitate in the anticipated situation. If someone is coming after me, I don't necessarily care if my ammo kills them next week, I want my ammo to put them on their back immediately.

Not even modern 9mm loads is necessarily going to put someone on their back. It really is all about shot placement. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, just that people underestimate how resilient the human body can be.

This is before we even get into an assailant that's fucked up on something like PCP.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Last weekend I saw a box of .45GAP in the wild for the first time, ever. For context, we've had more 7.65 Steyr & Arisaka ammo on our shelves than that shit.

.45 GAP afaik was dead on arrival almost the second Glock announced it and the spec sheet was passed around.

A couple guys I knew were in that, used to be in my company GSE & battalion S4 shops before heading to 4ID.
I talked to one a few years later after randomly running into him at the old range, and he admitted to not being the first Ft. Hood survivor who bought a 5.7; and bought his not for the performance, but the capacity.

That have been the most common reason I seen every where on and offline for everyone who bought the 5.7 pistols was for the capacity.

How so? My biggest concern for that was always reloadability; but it turned out 7.62x25 was the only bottleneck pistol cartridge I'd ever want or need lol.

For experience reloaders there's no real concerns or problem provided they done their homework first. For inexperienced reloaders the .357 SIG's short neck, conflicting C.I.P. and SAAMI standards, and need to select right sized bullets for it.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

It doesn't, reloading .357 SIG isn't hard at all and the bottleneck doesn't really effect case life span that I've noticed at least.

I wasn't thinking so much about the lifespan, just now it's more about the availability of any brass; nevermind pistol primers.

All by design, of course.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

How the fuck was 5.7 a revolution? That thing was made for a very, very specific purpose and internet autists like yourself went and blew up over it, proclaiming it to be something that to my knowledge, FN never has. It's a gun you buy solely to flex that you have money to waste on absolutely fucktarded purchases.

And who the fuck has ever used .45 GAP? I've been shooting since I was a kid and I don't think I've ever seen one in person.

hey now, the 5.7 isnt as expensive as it used to be. Ruger made them drop the MSRP. they could be had for less that 1000 just before the pandemic and riots started.

KY state police used to issue .45 GAP glocks but threw them away pretty quickly.

 

[Iceland Heavy]

hey now, the 5.7 isnt as expensive as it used to be. Ruger made them drop the MSRP. they could be had for less that 1000 just before the pandemic and riots started.

KY state police used to issue .45 GAP glocks but threw them away pretty quickly.

NYSP had them too I think but also got rid of them. I'm not really sure who asked to give the .40 S&W treatment to .45 ACP but whoever it was didn't hold on to them for long.

 

[Only A Retard Sometimes]

NYSP had them too I think but also got rid of them. I'm not really sure who asked to give the .40 S&W treatment to .45 ACP but whoever it was didn't hold on to them for long.

IIRC the goal was to apply modern tech to the case design. alot like shrinking the 30-06 down into .308 while keeping or exceeding performance. problem is .45 ACP has too much momentom to replace at this point and a large case combined with smaller powder charges that modern powder allows lets you increase the power of old cartridges. 45-70 is a great example of this as well as .45 super. 30-06 got a bump too in the fancy hunting loads.

 

[Iceland Heavy]

IIRC the goal was to apply modern tech to the case design. alot like shrinking the 30-06 down into .308 while keeping or exceeding performance. problem is .45 ACP has too much momentom to replace at this point and a large case combined with smaller powder charges that modern powder allows lets you increase the power of old cartridges. 45-70 is a great example of this as well as .45 super. 30-06 got a bump too in the fancy hunting loads.

IIRC they also had to load it to +p pressures to get the same performance out of it. I don't know if they were a little more prone to kabooms as a result like .40 could be because we don't have much of a sample size to draw from but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

The idea was to have a round that mimicked or exceeded the ballistic performance of 45 ACP but was short enough to fit into a G17/19 frame.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

.45 GAP afaik was dead on arrival almost the second Glock announced it and the spec sheet was passed around.

I think I saw one or two GLOCK adds in magazines like SGN, a couple more in niche handgun rags, and it was a big to-do in the run up to that year's SHOT; but after that everyone forgot. The market was already moving away from shit like .45GAP; probably because the market had seen how much of a wet dream .357Sig truly was.

Actually.... except for the 5.7FN & 7.5Brno, I can't recall any other new manufacturer-specific pistol calibers that have garnered & held anyone's interest. And the 5.7's longevity definitely has more to do with government contracts than market demand.

That have been the most common reason I seen every where on and offline for everyone who bought the 5.7 pistols was for the capacity.

To be fair, the thing is very easy to shoot; even more so from it's mother platform, the P-90. Both of FN's systems shoot & run like a dream, even in civilian configuration.

For inexperienced reloaders the .357 SIG's short neck, conflicting C.I.P. and SAAMI standards......

Thank you for reminding me of that, I knew I forgot something.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Actually.... except for the 5.7FN & 7.5Brno, I can't recall any other new manufacturer-specific pistol calibers that have garnered & held anyone's interest. And the 5.7's longevity definitely has more to do with government contracts than market demand.

There's been quite a few more new pistol calibers which have been successful in their niche. Issue is the expectation of toppling the 9x19mm, .45 ACP or .22LR is entirely unrealistic with the amount of sheer inertia backing them. As most American gun owners are their own worst enemy by sticking with old reliable and catering to the lowest common denominators.

 

[White Devil]

There's been quite a few more new pistol calibers which have been successful in their niche. Issue is the expectation of toppling the 9x19mm, .45 ACP or .22LR is entirely unrealistic with the amount of sheer inertia backing them. As most American gun owners are their own worst enemy by sticking with old reliable and catering to the lowest common denominators.

A lot of people also own a fuck load of guns and don't want to have to stock yet another caliber or do a rechambering. I actually sold all my .45s because i wanted to simplify my stock and I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks along those lines.

 

[Club Sandwich]

who the fuck has ever used .45 GAP?

i've literally handle/built only ever two in person: both were race guns for a guy very heavily invested in some customized competition frames in 9mm and 40 S&W, and a 357 SIG and 45 GAP caliber conversion is straight forward for those frames, with 45 GAP being a bit of an advantage in steel challenge as the extra mass at shorter ranges helps reduce the need for repeat hits. otherwise it was in search of a problem that nobody had.

Spoiler: other things

the compact Glock 38 is interesting as a 10 round (8+2 round extension) "45 short" CCW gun for someone that really wants it, but the Glock 30 short frame is probably the better option and for super tiny baby hands, the Glock 30 slim slide is available by catalog. the customers that provoked the development for the .45 GAP (people that thought the Glock 21 was too "meaty" in the hand) basically didn't want special ammo for the reduced frame size of the Glock 37. even the easy caliber conversion for reduced budget impact from their existing inventories of Glock 17's or 23's to a Glock 37 wasn't much of a sell since they wanted to use normal .45 ACP and not .45 GAP. ultimately while .45 GAP could largely duplicate a .45 ACP in a 9mm or .40 S&W frame size, that application was far too niche given the cost of additional logistics and the movement away from .45 ACP which would impact officer confidence in the round. unlike the movement from revolvers in .38 Special and .357 Magnum to the automatic (9mm and .45 ACP), there wasn't "someone else" seeing good results already and nobody wanted to be the first adopter. the FBI's short lived adoption of the 10mm, then the .40 S&W and eventually back to the 9mm is a story all it's own.