General GunTuber thread

[Trig.Point]

I like how he accurately demonstrates all the manual of arms and evolutions and maneuvers from the British drill and musketry manuals. It's much more interesting than squarebashing.

The only video of his I thought was not a very good demonstration and rather misleading was a timed trial comparing the sustained rate of fire of clip-fed Mauser action against singly-loaded Lee-Metford action, to disprove the Boer War conclusion that clip-loading rifles could maintain a better rate of fire. I remember he fumbled some of the Mauser reloads and was super tryhard on the Lee-Metford reloads, on top of capping the trial at a rather low number of rounds per rifle (maybe 15 or 20) and he came to the erroneous conclusion that there was no appreciable difference between the reloading systems.

The Boers captured a staggering amount of British arms and equipment during the war (the boers usually released the thousands of POW's they took while the British deported theirs to Sir Lanka and sent their families to concentration camps). So that by the end of the war they were mainly using various types of Lee Enfields/Metfords.

The Lee performed better with the Boers than it did with the British. Even in the current British Army units constantly fuck with soldiers individual weapons, ridiculous cleaning regimes, using rifles as PT props, armourers that aren't really armourers fucking around trying to fix faults. I'm willing to bet circa 1900 it was even worse. There would be a regimental shooting team, but every other soldier would fire the bare mininum, and in the days before mandatory quals I suspect some could go years without firing a rifle.

During the first boer war, the boers picked up that the British were consistently shooting low, even though the British never did. There's also suspicians that the Zulus took far fewer casualties at Isandlewana that was supposed, because the Zulus closed on them too fast for them to adjust their sights (the lack of ammunition is a proven myth). The problems with individual marksmanship were amplified by officers insisting on controlling fire while not having the training to give a fire control order that was anything other than a range a general direction.

Anyway during the Boer war British marksmanship was consistently shit, blaming the lee enfield and the dastardly mausers which the boers had stockpiled was largely cope. At the end of the war large British forces were geting hammered by smaller boer forces using the same Lee enfields they were.

 

[millais]

The Boers captured a staggering amount of British arms and equipment during the war (the boers usually released the thousands of POW's they took while the British deported theirs to Sir Lanka and sent their families to concentration camps). So that by the end of the war they were mainly using various types of Lee Enfields/Metfords.

The Lee performed better with the Boers than it did with the British. Even in the current British Army units constantly fuck with soldiers individual weapons, ridiculous cleaning regimes, using rifles as PT props, armorers that aren't really armorers fucking around trying to fix fault. I'm willing to bet circa 1900 it was even worse. There would be a regimental shooting team, but every other soldier would fire the bare mininum, and in the days before mandatory quals I suspect some could go years without firing a rifle.

During the first boer war, the boers picked up that the British were consistently shooting low, even though the British never did. There's also suspicians that the Zulus took far fewer casualties at Isandlewana that was supposed, because the Zulus closed on them too fast for them to adjust their sights (the lack of ammunition is a proven myth). The problems with individual marksmanship were amplified by officers insisting on controlling fire while not having the training to give a fire control order that was anything other than a range a general direction.

Anyway during the Boer war British marksmanship was consistently shit, blaming the lee enfield and the dastardly mausers which the boers had stockpiled was largely cope. At the end of the war large British forces were geting hammered by smaller boer forces using the same Lee enfields they were.

In the first few months of the 1899 war, the overwhelming majority of British infantry went into combat using brand new Lee-Metfords with factory-misaligned sights. Their windage was off (shots drifted too far to the left, iirc), which put them at a theoretical disadvantage both at long-range volley firing and short-range snapshooting during the early battles of the war. But as soon as this production fault was discovered, they had all the Lee-Metfords pulled from service and properly re-sighted.

Anecdotally, many Boers had a strong personal preference for Mausers over Lee-Enfields, though some of this was definitely a sentimental attachment. In most cases, the late-war switch to Lee-Enfields was just a matter of logistics to the Boers. They were capturing more .303 British rifle ammo than they knew what to do with every week (millions of rounds at a time, in some actions), whereas their stocks of 7mm Mauser ammo were impossible to replenish except from the discovery of the occasional buried cache and some small scale re-loading operations in the early part of the war. Someone has written an interesting paper tracking the relative value of .303 British and 7mm Mauser ammo among the different Boer forces over the course of the war, as the Boer forces regularly held sporting and athletic competitions, in which prizes of different ammo in varying quantities were awarded to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners

Poor British marksmanship in the late Victorian era can definitely be attributed in large part due to inadequate training. In South Africa, one of the big shortcomings of their training was range-finding. They learned and practiced rangefinding at Aldershot on flat terrain and clear atmospheric conditions. As soon as additional variables like elevation difference and heat distortion entered the mix, as they often did in the rugged terrain and wild weather of South Africa, the average Tommy was hopelessly lost.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

n the first few months of the 1899 war, the overwhelming majority of British infantry went into combat using brand new Lee-Metfords with factory-misaligned sights. Their windage was off (shots drifted too far to the left, iirc),

It was the rifling actually IIRC and the front sight had to be shifted to compensate.

The late victorian british rifleman was one of the best trained in the world in fact, so imagine how the rest of the world compared. they actually got to shoot and practice. the US rifleman of the time often never got to shoot at all.

The rifle course was very good at teaching the fundamentals of marksmanship but like you said did not account for bad conditions.

 

[Trig.Point]

In the first few months of the 1899 war, the overwhelming majority of British infantry went into combat using brand new Lee-Metfords with factory-misaligned sights.

So why didn't they figure out that the sights were misaligned on all the range shoots the British army was famous for doing.

What kind of army only figures out that their rifle sights are misalinged once they're in a shooting.... Incidentally a war that they chose to provoke.

 

[Swole McPole]

Still got nothing but love in my heart for Nutn.

I didn't mind him until he turned his channel into 40 minute's of pure grift. Daddy might have had a real career in the military, but his kids were going straight into the YouTube grift, right off of Daddy's success.

"You sit here, TacticalPoodle. You can hand me the patches while I flog the damn things as hard as I possibly can and I'll cut you in for a slice."

"Now you suckers who have bought several patches -- because you want to advertise your parasocial relationships when you're out in public, larping as an operator -- you really need to be sending me coin every month to become a member of The Nutnfancy Project. Because how else can I buy all of the boys toys a man can possibly need and pontificate about them to you on a weekly basis?

And that was before he turned into a swivel eyed loon going on about SHTF and how Obama would be the end of us all. Did he really mean that shit or was it just another grift, given that he'd figured out that his audience were mostly paranoid fantasists? At some point, I just stopped being able to take him seriously.

"The world is about to come crashing down, but in the meantime, here's some footage of me driving my 350Z while I talk about the philosophy of use of sports cars in the End Times."

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

I didn't mind him until he turned his channel into 40 minute's of pure grift. Daddy might have had a real career in the military, but his kids were going straight into the YouTube grift, right off of Daddy's success.

"You sit here, TacticalPoodle. You can hand me the patches while I flog the damn things as hard as I possibly can and I'll cut you in for a slice."

"Now you suckers who have bought several patches -- because you want to advertise your parasocial relationships when you're out in public, larping as an operator -- you really need to be sending me coin every month to become a member of The Nutnfancy Project. Because how else can I buy all of the boys toys a man can possibly need and pontificate about them to you on a weekly basis?

And that was before he turned into a swivel eyed loon going on about SHTF and how Obama would be the end of us all. Did he really mean that shit or was it just another grift, given that he'd figured out that his audience were mostly paranoid fantasists? At some point, I just stopped being able to take him seriously.

"The world is about to come crashing down, but in the meantime, here's some footage of me driving my 350Z while I talk about the philosophy of use of sports cars in the End Times."

Look, the deleted video of him talking about bringing a parachute to work when working in a high rise after 9/11 was peak YouTube and I wish someone had it still.

 

[Swole McPole]

Look, the deleted video of him talking about bringing a parachute to work when working in a high rise after 9/11 was peak YouTube and I wish someone had it still.

I used to watch both Nutn and CutleryLover early YouTube days -- I'd watch them both obsessively. There's a video when CutleryLover talks about asking him for advice about guns. At the time, they were both tiny channels. Anyway, it was kind of heartwarming and made me like Nutn for a very long time.

The good bit starts about 6.00 in.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

GunTube(and I guess by extension YouTube as a whole) got so much easier to digest once I realized these people have no idea what they're doing.
Absolutely atrocious amounts of "winging it" from everyone, even worse still with Ian getting dunked on for getting the AR15 adoption lore wrong and running with it all this time.

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

GunTube(and I guess by extension YouTube as a whole) got so much easier to digest once I realized these people have no idea what they're doing.
Absolutely atrocious amounts of "winging it" from everyone, even worse still with Ian getting dunked on for getting the AR15 adoption lore wrong and running with it all this time.

They're also insanely out of touch with the average person. Do not envy these men, guys. They spend a lot of time at the range, have cool stuff, etc. However from the ones I've known, they live with their parents, never have successful relationships, and are really man children. Their channels get big and they take all that money and invest in just more toys and become increasingly out of touch with the average person who is watching their videos. "You need a staccato, nods, a $2300 AR and passive NV optic, shooting this many rounds a month or you're behind the curve bro. What no I don't own a house or property just all this gear. Yeah I just use public land none of this is mine. What do you mean you work 40h+ a week with a family and can't do all these competitions? All my girlfriends have left me. It's not because I am a hobby obsessed man child or anything"

They do a big larp about shtf and family and whatever values and are basically losers at anything else. Just with a lot of knowledge and experience of the thing they do all day.

 

[Samhain]

Their channels get big and they take all that money and invest in just more toys and become increasingly out of touch with the average person who is watching their videos. "You need a staccato, nods, a $2300 AR and passive NV optic, shooting this many rounds a month or you're behind the curve bro.

I know I've said this before in this thread, but very few of them ever talk about "boring" survival/tactical stuff like food/water, medical, comms, etc. It's usually just about the fun toys. Even the channels that do delve into the "boring" stuff are usually trying to sell you something, or they frame the survival stuff in some sort of war-torn post-apocalyptic scenario.

Also, a bunch of these big channels get expensive shit sent to them for free. Rifles, optics, NODs, etc. And they sometimes reveal themselves to be kind of whack. A specific example I'm thinking of is Dirty Civilian, who -- despite all the expensive shit they've got -- revealed that they were running around with SRT plates in their carriers (the HESCO L210) despite apparently living in a rural area where there are no doubt guys with rifles in calibers that would zip right through those plates. Those plates won't even stop .308 for fuck's sake.

 

[waffle]

I'm thinking of is Dirty Civilian, who -- despite all the expensive shit they've got -- revealed that they were running around with SRT plates in their carriers (the HESCO L210) despite apparently living in a rural area where there are no doubt guys with rifles in calibers that would zip right through those plates. Those plates won't even stop .308 for fuck's sake.

I generally like dirty civilian, but I've never understood bothering with plates that won't stop m193, m855 and .308 ball. If things are bad enough that I'm going to fuck with the weight of plates why would I want something that won't stop the most common two rifles/MGs I could be shot at with?

 

[Mussolini’s Merkin]

They're also insanely out of touch with the average person. Do not envy these men, guys. They spend a lot of time at the range, have cool stuff, etc. However from the ones I've known, they live with their parents, never have successful relationships, and are really man children.

This is the reason I prefer watching channels like C&Rsenal, British Muzzle Loaders and Bloke on the Range. They don’t have any pretensions about what they do.

Othais does deep dives in serious detail and will happily admit when he is wrong, Rob covers British militaria in autistic detail which I love. Bloke and Chap are two guys with jobs and families that like to shoot on the weekends.

I’ve always appreciated them because it feels like they just enjoy what they do, rather than trying to shill.

 

[Samhain]

I generally like dirty civilian, but I've never understood bothering with plates that won't stop m193, m855 and .308 ball. If things are bad enough that I'm going to fuck with the weight of plates why would I want something that won't stop the most common two rifles/MGs I could be shot at with?

The L210 stops M193 and M855, but not .308, which makes it a no-go as a general purpose plate, in my opinion. Hell, I'm at a point where if a plate won't stop M855A1 in addition to M80 ball, it's not worth buying as a general purpose "SHTF" plate.

I think it's good to own plates and whatnot, but the way the tactical coolguy set fetishizes plate carrier shit is retarded. For the prepared citizen, plate carriers are good for relatively static home/community defense and little else. Nobody's doing direct action shit in SHTF, and moving on foot in plates fucking sucks (and most dudes won't be able to hack it anyway).

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Nobody's doing direct action shit in SHTF, and moving on foot in plates fucking sucks (and most dudes won't be able to hack it anyway).

Can't fucking stand looking up reviews on rifles and there's this lardass stumbling through brambles and grass doing magdumps on trash on 5 acres of land, rambling on about WROL and SHTF when the video's been posted within the last decade. That gimmick shit should have stopped by now.
The smart ones talk about small engine repair, campfire cooking, waste oil(cooking/diesel) for fuel and water prep.

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

The L210 stops M193 and M855, but not .308, which makes it a no-go as a general purpose plate, in my opinion. Hell, I'm at a point where if a plate won't stop M855A1 in addition to M80 ball, it's not worth buying as a general purpose "SHTF" plate.

I think it's good to own plates and whatnot, but the way the tactical coolguy set fetishizes plate carrier shit is retarded. For the prepared citizen, plate carriers are good for relatively static home/community defense and little else. Nobody's doing direct action shit in SHTF, and moving on foot in plates fucking sucks (and most dudes won't be able to hack it anyway).

Well going on Reddit they genuinely believe velocity has nothing to do with armor penetration and think because a bigger slower boolet like 7.62x39 hits harder with more energy so it must then defeat armor unlike the weak small bullet. so just go with level 3 to stop 7.62x39 because they genuinely think it'll penetrate better than 5.56 and you'll likely be fighting some retarded communist wannabe redditor and not the good ol boy neighbor.

I'm sorry my brain is melted from the retardation I've seen today on there. In other news a few months back NIJ said they're making an official standard for special threat plates and the whole 3+ stuff

 

[AncientPhosphur]

Well going on Reddit they genuinely believe velocity has nothing to do with armor penetration and think because a bigger slower boolet like 7.62x39 hits harder with more energy so it must then defeat armor unlike the weak small bullet. so just go with level 3 to stop 7.62x39 because they genuinely think it'll penetrate better than 5.56 and you'll likely be fighting some retarded communist wannabe redditor and not the good ol boy neighbor.

The mental gymnastics anyone who doesn’t buy lvl 4 plates when they want armor is astounding. Yes I want something to save my life in a wide range of my fantasy scenario… but I don’t want to spend too much money and waste all my time justifying why I did it.

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

The mental gymnastics anyone who doesn’t buy lvl 4 plates when they want armor is astounding. Yes I want something to save my life in a wide range of my fantasy scenario… but I don’t want to spend too much money and waste all my time justifying why I did it.

Then you finally convince them and they buy steel plates

 

[waffle]

Yes I want something to save my life in a wide range of my fantasy scenario… but I don’t want to spend too much money and waste all my time justifying why I did it.

There are 3+ plates that will stop all non-AP 5.56 and .308 and weight quite a bit less than true level 4, but the number of level 3 plates that can't stop M193 up close because it's just too fast is shocking. I can see a lot of realistic scenarios where I could get shot at with 5.56, but I'd be pressed to imagine when I'd be getting shot at with AP .308/.30-06.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

20" AR chads just keep winning, 11.5" retards get out

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

There are 3+ plates that will stop all non-AP 5.56 and .308 and weight quite a bit less than true level 4, but the number of level 3 plates that can't stop M193 up close because it's just too fast is shocking. I can see a lot of realistic scenarios where I could get shot at with 5.56, but I'd be pressed to imagine when I'd be getting shot at with AP .308/.30-06.

I'm glad NIJ is starting to make a official certification for 3+. Also for anyone who doesn't know NIJ tested is weasel wording. NIJ certified is the proper wording.