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I watched Ian's 320 video and came away with a strange feeling. Anyone else feel like Ian is a snake in the grass? He just seemed very disingenuous.
 
F-16 Viper said:
I watched Ian's 320 video and came away with a strange feeling. Anyone else feel like Ian is a snake in the grass? He just seemed very disingenuous.
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Ian has a degree in engineering and has visited more than one firearms factory (and likely gotten the tour guides' explanations on the procedures and methods used), so of course he's taking the engineering view on this whole debacle. The problem is that this doesn't seem to be entirely an engineering problem. Or rather, it is an engineering problem, but its causes appear to malicious rather than merely accidental on the part of SIG.

The guy has a blind spot the size of an 18-wheeler when it comes to anything business-side. Remember all the projects he thought were going to be the future (hello, Hudson H9) but that then floundered because of stupid business decisions from the manufacturers?
 
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quaawaa said:
Ian released a 20 minute long video about the P320 problems:
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Im gonna link both of tripp's videos here for posterity, as I dont think they've been posted here yet.
We ultimately dont know enough behind the scenes to say whether or it makes sense to MIM the parts instead of stamping, but I think It's a fairly major L on tripp's part to run with the $30 figure without clarifying beforehand.
 
I do find it irritating Ian never mentioned how many other striker fired guns on the market use fully cocked strikers and nobody has them just going off.
 
Yours Truly 2095 said:
I do find it irritating Ian never mentioned how many other striker fired guns on the market use fully cocked strikers and nobody has them just going off.
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Was it necessary to mention them outright? His point was that the tolerance stack getting too big due to faulty QA can render even normally safe designs unsafe, and that's what he thinks is happening here. It's just he's completely ignoring the source of that faulty QA: SIG cutting corners with their manufacturing.

He does have a point with changes while a model is in production taking time to percolate through the customer base, but... I really don't think that's what's happening here. As others said, the P230 has been on the market for a long fucking time. SIG is just plugging their ears and going LALALALA in the hopes that they can quietly settle any litigation brought up against them and avoid having to do a recall.
 
Autistic Gunspergings said:
We ultimately dont know enough behind the scenes to say whether or it makes sense to MIM the parts instead of stamping, but I think It's a fairly major L on tripp's part to run with the $30 figure without clarifying beforehand.
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I think your brand of autism disallows the mental processing of figurative meaning. The cost savings could be anything so long as it is subtracted from the total cost.
Sig shut down parts production in Germany and now exports parts from India, India seems to focus more on metal injected molding in regards to Sig production. It stands to reason that stamping is arguably more affordable than MIM, however India is a terrible country with borderline slave labor similar to China and in sheer volume it's likely cheaper.
 
Corn Flakes said:
the P230 has been on the market for a long fucking time. SIG is just plugging their ears and going LALALALA in the hopes that they can quietly settle any litigation brought up against them and avoid having to do a recall.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they knew about this prior to sending the guns out but they did Pinto Math and determined that the litigation would be cheaper than redesigning and/or remaking all the parts.
 
WhoBusTank69 said:
I think your brand of autism disallows the mental processing of figurative meaning. The cost savings could be anything so long as it is subtracted from the total cost.
Sig shut down parts production in Germany and now exports parts from India, India seems to focus more on metal injected molding in regards to Sig production. It stands to reason that stamping is arguably more affordable than MIM, however India is a terrible country with borderline slave labor similar to China and in sheer volume it's likely cheaper.
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Either that or the contractor they got in India already had the MIM machinery and they thought it wasn't worth paying any more for it. After all, Pajeet Icantotallymakeyougunssaar promised them their injection equipment was top-notch and not just a guy with a hose and two clapped-out molds they just dremel new shapes into.

Sleazy Car Salesman said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they knew about this prior to sending the guns out but they did Pinto Math and determined that the litigation would be cheaper than redesigning and/or remaking all the parts.
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Absofuckinglutely. But that's the kind of claim you don't really get to make as someone with 1+ million followers on social media without an army of rabid lawyers landing on your porch like a flock of seagulls that's just spotted an open bag of Lay's.
 
WhoBusTank69 said:
I think your brand of autism disallows the mental processing of figurative meaning.
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I literally didn't understand what it was talking about at all when I first heard it. was it talking about 30 dollars from the total production cost of the handgun? was it talking about that part specifically? was it hyperbole? Call me semantic about this, but I think its important to clarify this shit beforehand, particularly when raising allegations like this, or else you get videos like what Ian made and you have two people arguing past each other's points.
WhoBusTank69 said:
It stands to reason that stamping is arguably more affordable than MIM, however India is a terrible country with borderline slave labor similar to China and in sheer volume it's likely cheaper.
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and thats ultimately what im getting at. there are both reasons why X/Y is cheaper than Y/X. we dont know what the numbers look like behind the scenes with this. I think there are absolutely cases where MIM can be cheaper than stamping out a part but Stamping has also been a historically established way of mass manufacturing a bunch of parts at cheap costs and there is still plenty of industry inertia behind it.

Is there a problem with the P320? I 100% believe so. I'm just not ready to immediately point fingers at MIM'd parts specifically when we also have plenty of reasons to point at the ((CEO)), who has a documented history with Quality Control issues (a whole can of worms to unpack, separate from production decisions) and ruining company reputations because of it. Tripp's inside guy specifically said that the company is horrendeously shit at labeling its parts, for example. does it stand to reason that that attitude would extend to their QC department as a whole, causing faulty guns to release into the market? I would think so, I can't imagine them being paid all that well if you ask me. *Both could even end up being a problem here, sure. I just dont think its the hill to die on when there are plenty of different points in the manufacturing chain to examine here that could be causing issues.
 
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I wonder if Ian is going to let himself be further dragged into the Gun Internet Blood Sports (GIBS for short) and end up on the livestream with focustripp and his wigger sycophants while the chat constantly spams nigger towers and calls Ian a nose emoji all while focustripp collects some serious gibs from the mom's basement high rollers.

Back to Sig, I'll share my opinion about them neatly summarized here:

9txa1x.webp

Especially the P22X line of pistols. They always sucked and continue to suck and I to refuse to pretend they don't.
 
Baked Al-Aqsa said:
Back to Sig, I'll share my opinion about them neatly summarized here:

9txa1x.webp

Especially the P22X line of pistols. They always sucked and continue to suck and I to refuse to pretend they don't.
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Sig has terrible ergonomics on their pistols, I will say that. Their polymer stuff feels cheap and their all steel stuff feels like the bricks Ruger was making in the eighties and nineties but they charge you four digits for them.
 
Yours Truly 2095 said:
I do find it irritating Ian never mentioned how many other striker fired guns on the market use fully cocked strikers and nobody has them just going off.
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My understanding is that even the glock factory target connector completely preloads the striker, and basically every striker fired pistol made before the 80's is a totally cocked striker. Shit, my colt vest pocket is well over 100 years old and it has a totally preloaded striker. It was also engineered properly and the only way it's going off without that grip safety pressed is if the entire sear catch tab breaks off the striker, the tab is about 1/8" square and the whole part looks like it was machined from a block.
 
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WhoBusTank69 said:
Sig shut down parts production in Germany and now exports parts from India, India seems to focus more on metal injected molding in regards to Sig production. It stands to reason that stamping is arguably more affordable than MIM, however India is a terrible country with borderline slave labor similar to China and in sheer volume it's likely cheaper.
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Don’t forget that India is probably the worst country in regards to actually making functional firearms. Iirc their service rifle makes the original L85 look like a fudd’s perception of an AK-47 and before that their FAL clone was pretty much regarded as the worst FAL clone adopted by a major military.
 
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