General GunTuber thread

[Uranus Pink]

Yes.... I imagine in Arizona that could be a problem. Unless it's going to stay in a nice indoor rifle rack for the majority of it's life.

Ian describes the budget version as a civil defense verion... OK, in a civil defense role and you're carrying a rifle along with you constantly while you're doing other stuff, how useful is it going to be if it polymer starts to degrade.

Also not to sound like a broken record, but a few months of a rifle getting knocked about, dropped, throwen in and out of vehicles, maybe a forward assist might add a degree of reliability.

If Karl, Carl, Ian and everyone associated with the WWSD were serious they would've been pushing for the U.S. Army to torture test their rifles. As the U.S. Army already have testing protocols in place to do exactly that and in all climates.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I don't think all that talk about the polymer degrading under the sun is really relevant. We all know (and Karl et. all definitely know) that 99% of these rifles are going to be either range toys, gamer match guns, or gun safe/display wall queens. They're gimmick guns made for "maximum lightness", however much good that does despite the ad copy's claims. They'll be seeing less sun than your average deer hunter's rifle.

 

[Blasterisk]

I'm sure they're being honest, I'm just not sure they're competent. These early examples are looking pretty rough.

As far as the CDF version of the rifle goes, what's the chance that Faxon started getting cold feet with Karl and that's the reason for the shortage?

I can't imagine the circumstances that would cause parts for the most popular rifle in America to become scarce, in fact it must be Karl. and who tf is Carl?

 

[Uranus Pink]

I don't think all that talk about the polymer degrading under the sun is really relevant. We all know (and Karl et. all definitely know) that 99% of these rifles are going to be either range toys, gamer match guns, or gun safe/display wall queens. They're gimmick guns made for "maximum lightness", however much good that does despite the ad copy's claims. They'll be seeing less sun than your average deer hunter's rifle.

True but they either need to shut up altogether on the matter. Or put up the rifles for impartial testing to see whether the polymer holds up or not ala the Dragon Skin body armor. Or whether it holds zero or not when the rifle gets hot ala the G36 after the German Military went cheap on it by switching out tbe original polymer for cheaper plastic.

 

[HumptiDouji]

The G36 does not have any significant problems with melting or the trunnion shifting out of place in the receiver from heat buildup, that entire thing is made up for political reasons, H&K managed to demonstrate in a court of law that their rifles do not have that problem, and that they can perform to the original demanded specs.

It's essentially a defamation campaign by elements of the German government.

 

[Uranus Pink]

G36 had problems holding zero when the polymer had been switched to cheaper plastic. If a firearm can't hold zero it is functionally useless as far as accuracy is concerned. The German Govt was indeed defaming the G36 as the original specification had no problems. And the problems came up after the Govt order the changes made to the rifle.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

I found this interesting.

Due to an error in the process, the Bundeswehr has to withdraw the contract for its new assault rifle. The opposition speaks of a "gigantic disgrace" for the defense minister.

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer had to admit an embarrassing defeat in one of her most important armaments projects on Friday. In a letter to the chairmen in the Defense Committee, State Secretary Peter Tauber announced that the surprising contract confirmation for the Thuringian arms manufacturer CG Haenel had to be withdrawn by the federal administration office due to a possible patent infringement. An insider told SPIEGEL that the project was "reset to zero for the time being."

Tauber's writing reads cryptically, even for those familiar with the subject. The State Secretary explains that following a complaint from the competitor Heckler & Koch, "first verifiable", they learned of a possible patent infringement by the selected provider, CG Haenel. Since it cannot be ruled out that Heckler & Koch was disadvantaged as a result, the commitment to CG Haenel would have to be withdrawn. Now both offers, ie the HK416 and the MK556 from CG Haenel, would be checked again.

According to SPIEGEL information, there is a patent litigation surrounding the magazine of the MK556 assault rifle. Haenel has apparently been at odds with a US manufacturer for a long time who had certain components of the magazine protected by patents. From the point of view of the Thuringian gunsmiths, however, there is no protection. Nevertheless, the manufacturer should have made the ongoing dispute in the application for the major Bundeswehr order for the new assault rifle transparent, according to procurement law experts.

Just a few weeks ago, the ministry surprisingly announced that after three years of testing, CG Haenel had been selected for the major order, which in all should have a volume of around 600 million euros. Until then, all experts up to the ministry had assumed that, as in previous decades, Heckler & Koch would win the contract, since the gunsmiths are considered the gold standard worldwide. However, with the MK556, CG Haenel offered an equivalent but significantly cheaper weapon.[/url]

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I seem to also recall something about how Reich Chancellor Merkel's husband is on the board or a majority shareholder or something similar in the company competing with H&K on that. I could also be remembering incorrectly.

 

[wopirish]

Guys, I think i found the WWSD 2.0. Its so light weight that it will be all the new hotness in the guntuber sphere!

Spoiler: WWSD 2.0

This is a joke, but i find it funny

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Three gunners man...

 

[BIG BILL HELL'S]

Guys, I think i found the WWSD 2.0. Its so light weight that it will be all the new hotness in the guntuber sphere!

Spoiler: WWSD 2.0

This is a joke, but i find it funny

View attachment 2220411

Demolition Ranch has one of those, or something very similar.

It's... pretty dumb looking.

 

[Club Sandwich]

how much of the receiver is, just the inside to get the right dimensions and surfaces? Or do they plain cut it out of a 'billet' of their special plastic?

inside the receiver, carriage rails to support the carrier, feeding area, barrel area, truing of the receiver stays so everything is square. a lot of finish machining mostly, but key areas that are reinforced with steel require machining the plastic to ensure that they are even, smooth, and uniform. in the picture of a cut-away receiver notice the machined journals for the bolt carrier, et c. those are rough after molding.

I found this interesting.

i've been through the entire thing from the beginning since i regularly deal with repairs and service tasks for agency firearms through my line of work. it's both simple and complex and altogether a headache started by specific elements of a German political party and media.

to wit, no, there is no shifting in the G36 or A1, changes in the A2 and A3 can have an impact due to value engineering against recommendations. the A4 is a return to the original specification.

 

[Tour of Italy]

I'm sure they're being honest, I'm just not sure they're competent. These early examples are looking pretty rough.

As far as the CDF version of the rifle goes, what's the chance that Faxon started getting cold feet with Karl and that's the reason for the shortage?

They said that the carbon fiber hand guards specifically were making more money sold as parts than they were as part of the rifle. The Faxon pencil barrels are not the issue, the Civil Defense Rifle still uses them.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

They said that the carbon fiber hand guards specifically were making more money sold as parts than they were as part of the rifle.

The official line is that there is a material shortage and there's not enough for whatever company to produce handguards - so KE Arms is attempting to produce their own handguards, similar to how they acquired the company that made their BCGs. Which kinda defeats the purpose of their deal with other companies to make this collaboration.

 

[UVB-76]

Also not to sound like a broken record, but a few months of a rifle getting knocked about, dropped, throwen in and out of vehicles, maybe a forward assist might add a degree of reliability.

Not sure how external wear is going to affect reliability.

G36 had problems holding zero when the polymer had been switched to cheaper plastic. If a firearm can't hold zero it is functionally useless as far as accuracy is concerned. The German Govt was indeed defaming the G36 as the original specification had no problems. And the problems came up after the Govt order the changes made to the rifle.

I don't know where the cheaper plastic narrative is coming from. Their official testing has not only discovered that there were batches of off-spec ammunition issued to troops but also the thin barrel profile caused the internal stresses to shift the barrel. This was always a problem with pencil barrels and a known issue, where it's the user's decision to prioritize either weight or sustained fire rates. It's only relatively recently that heat treatment methods have managed to relieve the stresses and keep the POI shift to a minimum. HK was found to not be at fault because the German government asked for a lightweight rifle and they got it. This is the first time I heard of any plastic changes ordered by the government.

 

[HelpingNoone]

I don't know where the cheaper plastic narrative is coming from.

I agree. There wouldn't be many reasons to skimp on plastic in the numbers the G36 are molded in anyways. Material cost is one of the smallest cost factors in injection molding when you're doing batches of a few thousand vs. millions.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

The AK-50 evidently didn't self-disassemble. But that recoil spring & buffer guide rod is still not parallel to the receiver; the slow-motion shows that thing binding up during bolt travel.

It might true up when the cover is on it, but the buffer & guide rod assembly isn't locked into the receiver, it's kinda free floating.

 

[Trig.Point]

Not sure how external wear is going to affect reliability.

I'm not an expert, and the rifle I have the most experience with is the SA 80. From my understanding in (relatively) light weight modern rifles, made out of thin stampings, a bad knock can potentially cause damage to the internals as the rifle absorbs the shock.

I had a bad fall on exercise once where my rifle took the brunt of it, it looked fine after but I got empty cases stuck in the chamber when blank firing, which the Armourer eventually put down to the recoil assy being fucked.

Yeah forward assiting didn't help, but stil rifles need to be robust. If you're say a mechanic going from vehicle to vehicle carting your rfile with you,. Your weapons system really needs to be able to stand up to getting knocked about, still able to fire at the end of exercise range package, or god forbid actual combat.

 

[UVB-76]

I'm not an expert, and the rifle I have the most experience with is the SA 80. From my understanding in (relatively) light weight modern rifles, made out of thin stampings, a bad knock can potentially cause damage to the internals as the rifle absorbs the shock.

I had a bad fall on exercise once where my rifle took the brunt of it, it looked fine after but I got empty cases stuck in the chamber when blank firing, which the Armourer eventually put down to the recoil assy being fucked.

Yeah forward assiting didn't help, but stil rifles need to be robust. If you're say a mechanic going from vehicle to vehicle carting your rfile with you,. Your weapons system really needs to be able to stand up to getting knocked about, still able to fire at the end of exercise range package, or god forbid actual combat.

Yeah in that case the rifle is just toast. There are polymer uppers like the Professional Ordnance Carbon-15, and they don't usually get banged up to the point the internal walls change dimensions. They just break and fall apart.
AR receivers are relatively thick thick in comparison to sheet metal and 7075 T6 aluminum is the stuff that's used in aircraft.

 

[SmokeyMcRunFast]

The forward assist is more for when you start getting a dirty rifle or dirty mags. I have been thankful for it a few times. That being said the better way would be to put actual charging handle on the gun, cheaper and less parts able to break...like the AR-18 has.
Funny how that is...