GLITCH Productions - From the guys that brought you the Super Mario 64 bloopers

[BigJoey41X]

Yeah that's exactly the vibe I got from it too. There was a guy in these threads awhile ago trying to push the same excuse and basically insisting people were just taking the series too seriously.
And sure, he might be right on some fronts but it really does feel like a cover. Especially when the series tried to do serious moments that were very obviously not meant to be played for a laugh that just fell flat on their faces because of Liam's terrible writing skills. I think it's just a cope, like straight up. I really do think it's just a way to deflect criticism like "Hahahahaha! It's all just a joke guys! That's why the writing is so shit, I was writing ironically!"

Circling back to this point, LV may have been infected with the dreaded "Modern Hollywood Writing Syndrome", a malicious mental virus that convinced writers all over the industry that being sincere and/or earnest is childish and cringe, and quips and self-aware humor is the cool and hip thing to do now.

And I absolutely hate it, this is one of the biggest reasons Murder Drones gets on my nerves.

It's not sincere, at all, when I see this style of writing, I see the screenwriter not being confident that his story they are telling is good enough, so they have to devalue the whole thing with cheap, unfunny gags and ironically, guarantee its own failure.

 

[Bob Barbas]

Circling back to this point, LV may have been infected with the dreaded "Modern Hollywood Writing Syndrome", a malicious mental virus that convinced writers all over the industry that being sincere and/or earnest is childish and cringe, and quips and self-aware humor is the cool and hip thing to do now.

And I absolutely hate it, this is one of the biggest reasons Murder Drones gets on my nerves.

It's not sincere, at all, when I see this style of writing, I see the screenwriter not being confident that his story they are telling is good enough, so they have to devalue the whole thing with cheap, unfunny gags and ironically, guarantee its own failure.

Exactly! Someone else gets it!
At this point, I probably said it before in a previous post but I'll say it again. "If the writer and by extension the characters within the story can't even take their own story seriously, why should the audience?" that's another big problem with Murder Drones writing, if this is what the guy meant by what he said, as in Liam wrote it this way on purpose then it makes it doubly relevant.

If the series had simply presented it's story honestly and in earnest without all of this self-aware bullshit it probably would've came across a lot better. As it stands now it comes across as frustrating like "HA HA HA I know my story is so shit! Right guys?!" it's annoying because it's not shit because it's bad, it's shit because you have no faith in yourself as a writer. Now don't get me wrong, it would probably still be bad and even a bit cringeworthy even without the meta humor bullshit but the thing is, in a way that would make it kind of charming in its own way.
It would be
"Ha ha! This story is so stupid and I know it's stupid and so should you! Please laugh."
to
"Yeah, I know it's not good. I'm doing what I can."
One is infinitely more respectable than the other.

Fuck Liam had more than enough time to take in the criticism inbetween episodes I'd probably be less frustrated if he at least tried to take some of the issues into account and rectify them. But honestly, the more I see the more it starts to make sense and I realize he DID plan all of this out in advance, or at least a majority of it. Which arguably is more annoying because it means he either somehow didn't notice or deliberately chose to ignore all of the issues because "Lol who cares? Just laugh at the funny robots!" if the show was earnestly cringe instead of intentionally cringe then while it still wouldn't be perfect I'd at least be able to say "He tried."

But like you said though this is a huge symptom/problem with modern writing and why so many modern things feel so frustrating to watch. Nobody has any faith in their stories anymore. Though I think the worst examples are the types who try to use that bullshit as some way to get ahead of criticism so they can pre-emptively go "Uhh ackshully the story is meant to be shitty on purpose, chud. Maybe you should get a life." like nigger, people would be way more forgiving if you just tried your best, genuinely.

I say this to any Kiwis reading this that happen to write things, either as a hobby like me or as a job. Have some faith in your own creations. They're gonna be shitty and that's fine. Accept it and simply try better next time. Don't insult it and thus the viewers by just giving in and becoming a modern zoomer writer. We will all thank you for it.

 

[BigJoey41X]

Fuck Liam had more than enough time to take in the criticism inbetween episodes I'd probably be less frustrated if he at least tried to take some of the issues into account and rectify them. But honestly, the more I see the more it starts to make sense and I realize he DID plan all of this out in advance, or at least a majority of it. Which arguably is more annoying because it means he either somehow didn't notice or deliberately chose to ignore all of the issues because "Lol who cares? Just laugh at the funny robots!" if the show was earnestly cringe instead of intentionally cringe then while it still wouldn't be perfect I'd at least be able to say "He tried."

Some part of me thinks that the ironic meming is truly a part of his personality, and that he's not covering up anything, because he's just putting himself into his work, if thats the case, then why even bother trying to make the other half some messed up, plot heavy show then?

He's a pretty reclusive creator and doesnt share too much about the creative process of his writing outside of a few AmAs, I do wish someone can get an in-depth interview of what happened, I want to see the inner workings of his mind that led into this final cut.

Edit: This is unrelated to what I'm talking about, but there's one more type of fan that I didn't bring up, and they are the best one, they are the people who know the show is bad and that it has glaring issues, yet still continue to enjoy it in their own way because there are other parts they like, I have talked with some of them in a discussion from time to time, they are chill, its sad that they seem to not be that common.

 

[Bob Barbas]

Oh also, I have to scream this here because nobody else fucking will and it probably bothers me more than it should.

Regarding episode 5, so okay, the events of the episode are some weird simulation/replay of N and V's memories, right?

HOW THE FUCK DO THEY KNOW ABOUT THE PARTS NEITHER OF THEM WERE THERE FOR?! AND WHY DOES NOBODY ELSE TALK ABOUT IT?!

Sorry, I just had to let that out. It's the little things.

 

[BigJoey41X]

Oh also, I have to scream this here because nobody else fucking will and it probably bothers me more than it should.

Regarding episode 5, so okay, the events of the episode are some weird simulation/replay of N and V's memories, right?

HOW THE FUCK DO THEY KNOW ABOUT THE PARTS NEITHER OF THEM WERE THERE FOR?! AND WHY DOES NOBODY ELSE TALK ABOUT IT?!

Sorry, I just had to let that out. It's the little things.

honestly, in terms of the sheer amount of illogical and inconsistent shit that happens in this show, this isn't really that high up the list, and besides, it adds to the narrative instead of devaluing it, so i'll let it pass, just because there are so much worse things that could be brought up.

Oh!, and I have also talked to some of the defenders in some discussion circles elsewhere, another counterpoint I have seen is:

>No, you don't get it, you laugh at the goofy parts, and then take it seriously at the serious parts, stop being so autistic about this

I personally disagree with this, because it sounds like you make yourself enjoy two very different shows at the same time by separating the two halves, instead of taking it as a whole, ignoring the other half depending on which scene is happening,

This was one of their most common points, and it made me think, is this how they still have somehow retained their suspension of disbelief in spite of how bad the narrative got?, it is certainly a....unique mindset to have .

 

[Bob Barbas]

honestly, in terms of the sheer amount of illogical and inconsistent shit that happens in this show, this isn't really that high up the list, and besides, it adds to the narrative instead of devaluing it, so i'll let it pass, just because there are so much worse things that could be brought up.

The issue I have with it, is okay let me for instance specify what I'm talking about. Like the scene with Tessa, J and Cyn alone in Tessa's room. These are supposed to be based on N and V's memories right? So, again how do they know what was happening for the parts they weren't there for?
I mean alright fine I guess the entire episode is confusing if you think about it too hard but still it's specifically stuff like that, that bothers me greatly because you don't even have to be a genius to catch how bizarre that reads.

No, you don't get it, you laugh at the goofy parts, and then take it seriously at the serious parts, stop being so autistic about this

Yeah, I call that Undertale writing, because while the game didn't create it, it definitely is what made it so popular with zoomers these days. I've gotten into this argument before and I'm fairly certain I've stated my opinion on this in this very thread before, but I'll say it again briefly.
I'm not saying you can't have moments of levity in a serious story, the thing is you have to place that shit carefully and deliver it well or it either won't land or will come off as jarring. The issue with something like Undertale and by extension Murder Drones is the writing is almost schizophrenic it constantly goes back and forth between whimsical and grim and this creates a tonal whiplash where the audience will begin to question what is meant to be serious and what is meant to be "Funny haha" and then it'll make it harder to care when the serious moments do come because they're already so used to the characters not taking anything seriously that it just comes off as jarring.

The only way I've seen it works is in Kojima stuff like I cited before where everything is so consistently insane that the funny/crazy parts are just seen as normal and are treated as such by the characters. And even that is hard to do apparently. Because the thing is to the characters it's not a joke. I guess the issue comes down to the characters in Murder Drones are too inconsistent in what they take seriously.
Example: Basically laughing off the deaths of other drones but then suddenly they take V's death very seriously and treat it as all dramatic. I mean, J was a bitch but technically she was still their "Friend" yet neither N nor V gave a shit when she got blown in half. Fuck they don't even mention her much after the fact until she comes back.
Example 2: Doll and Lizzie were both supposedly friends and hell it's implied she might have even known Doll was murdering people and was basically helping her isolate them so she could kill them stealthily if you pay enough attention yet is completely fine with backstabbing her for the same people who have been killing hundreds of them for at least a good few years so why the fuck is V such an exception here??? There was no loyalty or anything of the sort. Hell the ending even implies they're basically parading her corpse around now for the funny I guess? (Remember, she died back at the lab so that means they brought her dead body all the way back to the colony for some reason.) And Lizzie does not give a singular shit. Hell, nobody gives a shit about Doll actually.
The character's values are too inconsistent to take seriously.

Tl;dr: You need to either pick one, or learn to mix them properly instead of just pouring them both into the bowl with no regard like a fucking ape. If you don't make the mix properly one is just gonna cancel the other out.

 

[Burgerasssand]

so why the fuck is V such an exception here??? There was no loyalty or anything of the sort.
The character's values are too inconsistent to take seriously.

The plot has deemed them the main characters and that's the sole reason presented for why you should care about them.
Forget the absence of the slightest glimpse of basic morality or hell, even her just being mildly likable ONCE, you should cry over V's death because we NEED you to. Even after she wastes a few high-schoolers when they're supposed to be playing nice without tangible reason beyond a gag, and even though she does nothing but be complete dead-weight for the entire series at large and a fuck ton of other things that I refuse to dedicate the brainpower needed to list them, we REQUIRE you, at this very particular moment, to root and/or grieve for the loss of such a quintessential, important character because clearly, as shown by the super sad music, sparse ass dialogue we wrote for her sacrifice, and "deep and emotional" undertones we having going in the background, this is obviously a moment where you're supposed to memory-hole the fact that she's been nothing but a reprehensible, putrid monster and completely worthless from start-to-finish.
What manner of giga autist was this trite ass show created for? V is just the start, everybody in this series is a such a gigantic cunt that I was literally rooting for the Solver by Episode 8.

 

[Bob Barbas]

I was literally rooting for the Solver by Episode 8.

Come to think of it destroying the entire universe doesn't sound like such a bad idea now...

 

[BigJoey41X]

The plot has deemed them the main characters and that's the sole reason presented for why you should care about them.
Forget the absence of the slightest glimpse of basic morality or hell, even her just being mildly likable ONCE, you should cry over V's death because we NEED you to. Even after she wastes a few high-schoolers when they're supposed to be playing nice without tangible reason beyond a gag, and even though she does nothing but be complete dead-weight for the entire series at large and a fuck ton of other things that I refuse to dedicate the brainpower needed to list them, we REQUIRE you, at this very particular moment, to root and/or grieve for the loss of such a quintessential, important character because clearly, as shown by the super sad music, sparse ass dialogue we wrote for her sacrifice, and "deep and emotional" undertones we having going in the background, this is obviously a moment where you're supposed to memory-hole the fact that she's been nothing but a reprehensible, putrid monster and completely worthless from start-to-finish.
What manner of giga autist was this trite ass show created for? V is just the start, everybody in this series is a such a gigantic cunt that I was literally rooting for the Solver by Episode 8.

I have unironically seen people defend this, check this out:

Lets conveniently ignore the fact that by doing this, you destroy basically any emotional or narrative weight in your fictional universe, nothing matters anymore if we are going to be this nonchalant.

 

[Bob Barbas]

I have unironically seen people defend this, check this out:

View attachment 6394711View attachment 6394712View attachment 6394714
View attachment 6394715

Lets conveniently ignore the fact that by doing this, you destroy basically any emotional or narrative weight in your fictional universe, nothing matters anymore if we are going to be this nonchalant.

Again, I have to cite how N and V don't seem to give a single fuck about their friend J dying.
Nor did Lizzie seem to give a single shit about her supposed friend Doll dying.

Were they random background characters too?
EDIT: Minor addition too but the more I think about it, the more it really feels like Liam had no fucking idea what to do with Doll after the 3rd episode. She just sort of exists... and then she dies and is immediately forgotten and ignored. Even the other characters gave no fucks about her existence. I really don't understand why so many people were so attached to her.
Again she COULD have been an interesting character in the hands of someone who actually gave a damn.

 

[Dynamite Bean]

I'm honestly convinced most people only like the show for it's character designs and nothing else and don't want to admit it
I guarantee you if the characters were just generic humans it would be universally ripped apart, just like with hazbin hotel and helluva boss, if those shows had only generic human characters as designs instead they'd get way more shit for their flaws

 

[BigJoey41X]

Again, I have to cite how N and V don't seem to give a single fuck about their friend J dying.

Ok, to be fair, the woman was just a one-dimensional bitch from start to finish with no redeeming qualities whatsoever it does actually makes sense they pretty much didn't bring her ever again, she had definitely gotten on their nerves for a very long period of time.

I do wish she was given more nuanced and given more reason why she is the way she is, sadly, it never happened, she's the writer's designated hatesink it seems.

Nor did Lizzie seem to give a single shit about her supposed friend Doll dying.

Lizzy is an abhorrent character and im mad that nobody seemed to call her out on it, getting to live on with V just like that, she was more than willing to betray her own kind all because she found V to be hot, you know, at least Uzi had a reason to abandon her colony.

Let's be honest here, she was nothing more than the replacement love interest for V once N got taken, its why literally ALL development between those two happened fucking off screen, it's so shamelessly fucking phoned in, and the shippers bought because those people have notoriously low standards for what makes people connect.

I also don't like the ship fundamentally since both of them are insanely fucked up people with no morals whatsoever, i honestly feel disgusted seeing them together

Were they random background characters too?
EDIT: Minor addition too but the more I think about it, the more it really feels like Liam had no fucking idea what to do with Doll after the 3rd episode. She just sort of exists... and then she dies and is immediately forgotten and ignored. Even the other characters gave no fucks about her existence. I really don't understand why so many people were so attached to her.
Again she COULD have been an interesting character in the hands of someone who actually gave a damn.

Doll's purpose in the story seems to be the girl that introduced the concept of "the witch powers" to us, and then he pretty much ran out of ideas on what to do with her after that beyond some vague hostility towards the main cast, another wasted character, just like most things in this show.

Also the reason people like her because she's the dark, gloomy girl of the story, that's pretty much it, we have to remember it doesn't take much for autists to be attached to any character, no matter how shallow.

I'm honestly convinced most people only like the show for it's character designs and nothing else and don't want to admit it
I guarantee you if the characters were just generic humans it would be universally ripped apart, just like with hazbin hotel and helluva boss, if those shows had only generic human characters as designs instead they'd get way more shit for their flaws

Cooming is the biggest reason people let the characters pass and rarely, if at all mention their flaws, same in HH/HB, same in MD, they just wanna fuck 'em

 

[Dynamite Bean]

Speaking of shipping, I honestly hate Nuzi, ignoring everything else, I really hate how everything now has to be romantic and their dynamic at least early on always gave me more big brother and little sister sibling vibes than romantic partners
i could say it would of been interesting but I doubt they'd do anything with it, just one less bingo from the indie animation card

 

[Bob Barbas]

Doll's purpose in the story seems to be the girl that introduced the concept of "the witch powers" to us, and then he pretty much ran out of ideas on what to do with her after that beyond some vague hostility towards the main cast, another wasted character, just like most things in this show.

It's even more bizarre since she's the daughter of Yeva, that being what seemed to be Nori's friend judging by the flashbacks, but yeah nobody gives a shit.

Ok, to be fair, the woman was just a one-dimensional bitch from start to finish with no redeeming qualities whatsoever it does actually makes sense they pretty much didn't bring her ever again, she had definitely gotten on their nerves for a very long period of time.

She was still kind of a bitch but she did seem to be mildly less hostile towards them during the flashback episode. But, fair. I mean, I feel like they had to have some kind of friendship to be together for so long for essentially no reason which is why it felt odd.

I do wish she was given more nuanced and given more reason why she is the way she is, sadly, it never happened, she's the writer's designated hatesink it seems.

Yeah, like V is still a psycho but at least her reason for being mean to N was because she wanted to distance herself from him for his "Safety"... honestly the more I think about it the entire plotline where everyone knows what is going on except N seems really ridiculous now. Honestly there's a lot of plot points that make you ask "What was the point?" in hindsight. But yeah, AGAIN, episode 5 is such a big fucking wasted opportunity to not show us more of their dynamic before they became disassembly drones. It would have been the perfect chance to get us to care about and sympathize with the characters annnnd they just threw it in the trash. Honestly the more I think about it, the more I realize how meandering Episode 5 was in general. The only real big reveal was Cyn herself. We already know they used to be worker drones due to N's very brief flashback in Episode 2. (Or was it 3?) I dunno the series just blends together at this point.

Lizzy is an abhorrent character and im mad that nobody seemed to call her out on it, getting to live on with V just like that, she was more than willing to betray her own kind all because she found V to be hot, you know, at least Uzi had a reason to abandon her colony.

I mean, at least N expressed regret and apologized for what he had been doing to them. Granted it was in a very goofy ass way but at least he did. V did no such thing. Hell, she didn't even think to try apologizing to Doll either. (She probably wouldn't have cared.) but still. Thought never even crossed her mind.

Speaking of shipping, I honestly hate Nuzi, ignoring everything else, I really hate how everything now has to be romantic and their dynamic at least early on always gave me more big brother and little sister sibling vibes than romantic partners

I think someone else said it in these threads but I can't disagree that it would have been more interesting to see N rekindle his relationship with V rather than get with Uzi.
I dunno, maybe Uzi could've gotten with Thad or something, I mean he weirdly was the only drone in the colony that didn't treat Uzi like shit for some reason.

 

[BigJoey41X]

Speaking of shipping, I honestly hate Nuzi, ignoring everything else, I really hate how everything now has to be romantic and their dynamic at least early on always gave me more big brother and little sister sibling vibes than romantic partners
i could say it would of been interesting but I doubt they'd do anything with it, just one less bingo from the indie animation card

I would have preferred them to be friends at first instead of immediately hinting at romance by episode 3, its very rushed.

The problem I have with them is that they are obnoxious and unlikable, much like everyone else.

I mean, at least N expressed regret and apologized for what he had been doing to them. Granted it was in a very goofy ass way but at least he did. V did no such thing. Hell, she didn't even think to try apologizing to Doll either. (She probably wouldn't have cared.) but still. Thought never even crossed her mind.

In a cast of violent psychopaths, V is easily the biggest one, its really bizarre why the show pretends she's supposed to be presented as one of "the good guys" at all, its fucking stupid, her fake death scene is just laughable, they really expected me to be really really sad about that , like fuck off, the worst thing is how did the fandom even buy into this holy shit, these people must have insanely low standards

I think someone else said it in these threads but I can't disagree that it would have been more interesting to see N rekindle his relationship with V rather than get with Uzi.
I dunno, maybe Uzi could've gotten with Thad or something, I mean he weirdly was the only drone in the colony that didn't treat Uzi like shit for some reason.

I like eNVy even less than the canon ship, V has been so toxic to him for most of the shows runtime, and since we're barely doing character development at all, N didn't get the time to actually showcase his feelings towards her and make amends, instead it happened off-screen during the last episode, good job LV.

The way this show fumbled literally all of the characters is something to behold, i admit i am biased, unlike you, I care more about the writing of characters over shit like the lore/story, which seems to be your interest, so seeing wasted character development thats literally right there...to just not happen or happened off-screen is inexcusably bad writing that harms the emotional core of a story, and when you harm that part of the story, it stops mattering, its worthless now.

 

[Bob Barbas]

The way this show fumbled literally all of the characters is something to behold, i admit i am biased, unlike you, I care more about the writing of characters over shit like the lore/story, which seems to be your interest, so seeing wasted character development thats literally right there...to just not happen or happened off-screen is inexcusably bad writing that harms the emotional core of a story, and when you harm that part of the story, it stops mattering, its worthless now.

I actually care about both, I figured that would have been obvious. They're both integral to a coherent story.
I think it's more like I'm just more willing to excuse certain things when it comes to that stuff.

But you're completely right here.

 

[Dynamite Bean]

I like how everyone here has their own reasons for watching or wanted(keyword here) to like the show, unlike most other parts of the web where the discussion is just dumb silly memey shit with nothing productive

i was initially invested because I like robots and the character designs

joey wanted writing, bob wanted both writing and lore, yet despite so many compelling things going for it for different people, it fumbles all of it and no one except braindead zoomers who will happily eat shit are pleased with it
it's impressive how a show can have one thing going for it yet not get any of it right
even character designs are useless if the product it's from is shit, especially in the form of a cartoon

 

[Burgerasssand]

Lizzy is an abhorrent character and im mad that nobody seemed to call her out on it, getting to live on with V just like that, she was more than willing to betray her own kind all because she found V to be hot, you know, at least Uzi had a reason to abandon her colony.

Let's be honest here, she was nothing more than the replacement love interest for V once N got taken, its why literally ALL development between those two happened fucking off screen, it's so shamelessly fucking phoned in, and the shippers bought because those people have notoriously low standards for what makes people connect.

I also don't like the ship fundamentally since both of them are insanely fucked up people with no morals whatsoever, i honestly feel disgusted seeing them together

If it makes you feel any better, they aren't actually dating, are just friends (as if that means anything to twitter shippers, the faggots would have just paired them up anyways), and Lizzy is apparently going out with Thad in the background, or so says Glitch employees on the official discord.

(They were roommates is zoomer-speak for "they're dating")
And is sort of supported in-show.

(this plus them holding hands in episode eight)
Changes nothing, writing still fucking sucks, every character is still a completely unlikeable piece of shit, EVERYTHING is either in the background, occurs off-screen, or is left up to interpretation, and faggots on Twitter/Tumblr will still go apeshit for crumbs of yurislop while schizoing themselves enmasse into gay-ass headcanons, but if theres ONE redeemable thing to be gotten out of any of Liam Vickers works after reading through and watching a good chunk of them, it's that it's abundantly clear that he doesn't enjoy putting actual fagshit in the stuff he makes, so at least there's something.

 

[Bob Barbas]

If it makes you feel any better, they aren't actually dating, are just friends (as if that means anything to twitter shippers, the faggots would have just paired them up anyways), and Lizzy is apparently going out with Thad in the background, or so says Glitch employees on the official discord.
View attachment 6395571
(They were roommates is zoomer-speak for "they're dating")
And is sort of supported in-show.
View attachment 6395579
(this plus them holding hands in episode eight)
Changes nothing, writing still fucking sucks, every character is still a completely unlikeable piece of shit, EVERYTHING is either in the background, occurs off-screen, or left up to interpretation, and faggots on Twitter will still go apeshit for crumbs of yurislop while schizoing themselves into headcanons, but if theres ONE redeemable thing to be gotten out of any of Liam Vickers works after reading through and watching a good chunk of them, it's that it's abundantly clear that he doesn't enjoy putting actual fagshit in the stuff he makes, so at least there's something.

That's even more bizarre considering like I said before, Thad is the nicest drone in the show so far. Like I said, he's for whatever reason the only one who didn't treat Uzi like some kind of freak.
So we have what is shown to be so far the nicest drone... going out with the most morally abhorrent drone.

Well, I hope Thad is ready for the consequences I suppose. Hope he's prepared to pay those inevitable alimony checks.

 

[BigJoey41X]

If it makes you feel any better, they aren't actually dating, are just friends (as if that means anything to twitter shippers, the faggots would have just paired them up anyways), and Lizzy is apparently going out with Thad in the background, or so says Glitch employees on the official discord.
View attachment 6395571
(They were roommates is zoomer-speak for "they're dating")
And is sort of supported in-show.
View attachment 6395579
(this plus them holding hands in episode eight)
Changes nothing, writing still fucking sucks, every character is still a completely unlikeable piece of shit, EVERYTHING is either in the background, occurs off-screen, or is left up to interpretation, and faggots on Twitter/Tumblr will still go apeshit for crumbs of yurislop while schizoing themselves enmasse into gay-ass headcanons, but if theres ONE redeemable thing to be gotten out of any of Liam Vickers works after reading through and watching a good chunk of them, it's that it's abundantly clear that he doesn't enjoy putting actual fagshit in the stuff he makes, so at least there's something.

In the final episode, we got this blink-it-or-you-miss-it moment of Lizzy resting her head on V, its clear the two have some "romantic chemistry" that developed off-screen, this also implies there's a three-way going between Lizzy, V, Thad.

Gross.

I'm largely indifferent to homosexuality for the most part (not that I would prefer them over the normal option, god no), but polyamory always ticks me off the wrong way, this is absolutely going to come off as cringe coming from a grown man but I truly value romantic relationships in fictional stories, its just interesting to see two people eventually form a special connection with each other, having more than two involved just devalues the whole thing and not special, its basically just a compromise for two factions of a ship, this is also the same reason why i dont like the proposed three way between Uzi, N ,and V as an excuse to calm down the Nuzi and NV shippers.