GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

I noticed that when mulling over the 4070 for my PC build, the 12 gigs felt odd considering that there's a 16 gig option for the 4060. Personally debating on a 4070 if only for A.I. processing abilities, even if it's minimal, still want to make art and stuff.

I think it's because memory ended up being more expensive than NVIDIA expected. I'm pretty sure the 4060 has 4x2 GB GDDR6 chips, and the 4060 Ti has 4x4 GB GDDR6 chips...while the 4070 has 6x2 GB GDDR6X chips. Dollars to donuts says that going with 6x4 GB GDDR6X chips was too expensive to price the card competitively. AMD isn't using GDDR6X at all in their consumer cards. Going with GDDR6X for the 4090 and 4070 may have been a mistake on NVIDIA's part.

To be fair I can't blame them. I haven't heard many problems about 12th gen. It's smart to build off it

It's more that the Intel 4 process node (just a fancy term for a chip factory) has low yields and problems with clocking high.

As a welder, I'm sure you're quite familiar with how the same type of weld is weaker or stronger depending on the skill of the welder and how well the weld was executed. A similar thing holds true of fabricating microchips. This is what a microchip looks like up close:

1704727221241.png

The more perfectly and accurately those structures are carved out by the laser (which, like a high-grade weld, requires high-purity materials) the better they transfer current and dissipate heat according to the original engineering specification, and the larger they can be built. In other words, you can clock the chip higher and put more cores on it. Consequently, a large part of standing up a new process node is ensuring the entire supply chain and fabrication process are as free from defects and variation as possible. The longer the node is in service, the more defects are worked out of the process, the smaller you can make the features without breaking things, and the bigger & hotter you can make the chips.

For example, Intel was infamously stuck on their 14nm node for a very long time. When they launched it, the biggest, hottest chip they made was 4 cores with a max turbo of 3.8 GHz (i7-5775R). At the end of its life, they were making 8-core CPUs with a max turbo of 5.1 GHz (i9-11900k).

The credible rumor in the chip industry is that Intel scrapped plans to release Meteor Lake on the desktop due to yield issues. In other words, if they were to try to make a chip with as many cores that ran as fast as an i9-14900k, they'd have to throw out so many of them due to defects that they couldn't make money on the thing.
 
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think it's because memory ended up being more expensive than NVIDIA expected. I'm pretty sure the 4060 has 4x2 GB GDDR6 chips, and the 4060 Ti has 4x4 GB GDDR6 chips...while the 4070 has 6x2 GB GDDR6X chips. Dollars to donuts says that going with 6x4 GB GDDR6X chips was too expensive to price the card competitively. AMD isn't using GDDR6X at all in their consumer cards. Going with GDDR6X for the 4090 and 4070 may have been a mistake on NVIDIA's part.
I mean I would have taken 4 extra gigs of slightly slower ram because it's still pretty closely related. Yeah, they fucked up.
The super cards just got announced so you may want to wait. Nvidia is bringing out more vram despite telling people that what they already offered was plenty and that is was just fake news.
Personally I'm just looking at the base model, but I'm in no rush. It's all about cost though
 
It's all about cost though
In which case you should definitely get the 4060 (Ti). Performance per dollar it's beat by AMD, of course, but as someone who bothered getting AI stuff to run on AMD cards, pay the Nvidia premium (as I recently did, too). It really is nice to have plug and play AI. Especially if you're on Windows, as far as I know you can't even do ROCM-pytorch on Windows, and AMDs good Linux drivers wouldn't be a selling point anyway.

Also, for gaming, Nvidia's value actually isn't as bad as it seems, thanks to DLSS. Yeah they're not "real" pixels, but DLSS 2 & 3 are genuinely hard to tell apart from the real thing. Actively playing the game and not just looking at screenshots to find the flaws, you won't even notice.
 
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If I wanted to run a home automation server with openHAB, what GPU or AI accelerator should I use to process the voice recognition for the server?
 
If I wanted to run a home automation server with openHAB, what GPU or AI accelerator should I use to process the voice recognition for the server?
Nothing less than a 4090.

Or a Raspberry Pi with an Intel NCS2 or an NVIDIA Jetson Nano.
Some assembly required.

Also depends on how much voice recognition you want. The larger the device the wider range of things it can recognize.

Looks like there are even some models that can handle it on CPU. Maybe try those first. They'll obviously take a bit to process. The Pi 5 may not be too bad. Anything faster than a Pi may be near real time without a GPU/AI.
 
Nothing less than a 4090.

Or a Raspberry Pi with an Intel NCS2 or an NVIDIA Jetson Nano.
Some assembly required.

Also depends on how much voice recognition you want. The larger the device the wider range of things it can recognize.

Looks like there are even some models that can handle it on CPU. Maybe try those first. They'll obviously take a bit to process. The Pi 5 may not be too bad. Anything faster than a Pi may be near real time without a GPU/AI.
What about an Intel Arc? I'm being pushed to get one for video transcoding anyways.
 
In which case you should definitely get the 4060 (Ti). Performance per dollar it's beat by AMD, of course, but as someone who bothered getting AI stuff to run on AMD cards, pay the Nvidia premium (as I recently did, too). It really is nice to have plug and play AI. Especially if you're on Windows, as far as I know you can't even do ROCM-pytorch on Windows, and AMDs good Linux drivers wouldn't be a selling point anyway.

Also, for gaming, Nvidia's value actually isn't as bad as it seems, thanks to DLSS. Yeah they're not "real" pixels, but DLSS 2 & 3 are genuinely hard to tell apart from the real thing. Actively playing the game and not just looking at screenshots to find the flaws, you won't even notice.
AMD recently released a guide to getting Stable Diffusion working on Windows at least for their cards supported by ROCM. As far as I know this is just the 7900xt and 7900xtx. I will agree getting AI working on Nvidia cards is painless compared to unsupported AMD cards. It was an absolute pain to get my 7800xt running Stable Diffusion under Linux while I was able to get it running on my 1050ti in 5 minutes. Now that it is, performance is 10-20% worse than a 4070 which is good enough for me. It's an excellent card for gaming and I'm pretty satisfied with that and the AI performance. I'm still having a couple issues from the workarounds to get it running and from trying different performace tweaks, but I'm hoping these issues will get fixed once AMD gets the 7800xt supported officially.
 
If I wanted to run a home automation server with openHAB, what GPU or AI accelerator should I use to process the voice recognition for the server?
I've been looking into image recognition for security camera streams and found the coral.ai USB accelerators which are only like $60. Does your software support those?
 
If I wanted to run a home automation server with openHAB, what GPU or AI accelerator should I use to process the voice recognition for the server?
Why do you want to use openHAB? Homeassistant can do the same thing and you don't need any insane hardware for local voice processing. You use the Piper and Whisper addons to enable it. According to the docs it takes about 8 seconds on a Rpi and less than a second to process on an Intel NUC. If you're running a beefier server and use containers to run HA, I bet it will take barely any time.

I've been looking into image recognition for security camera streams and found the coral.ai USB accelerators which are only like $60. Does your software support those?
Frigate NVR and Shinobi both support the Coral accelerator, but I don't know about how well openHAB integrates with either. My preference is for Frigate NVR as the devs are more helpful and receptive and the software itself is pretty awesome. I would opt for the PCIe accelerator as it runs a bit cooler, is a bit cheaper, and is a bit more reliable. I had issues getting the drivers installed and having Frigate recognize the Coral TPU on Debian 12 though. I tried it again in Fedora server and it worked like a charm.
 
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Also, for gaming, Nvidia's value actually isn't as bad as it seems, thanks to DLSS. Yeah they're not "real" pixels, but DLSS 2 & 3 are genuinely hard to tell apart from the real thing. Actively playing the game and not just looking at screenshots to find the flaws, you won't even notice.

I would argue NVIDIA cards are a much better buy than AMD cards due to DLSS3. Even at 2X upscaling, DLSS2 doesn't noticeably shimmer. So in practice, especially the way @WelperHelper99 is likely to use his machine, a $550 4070 is going to produce better graphics than the similarly priced 7800 XT. Additionally, I've noticed that if something devs do is going to run poorly on a particular card, it's going be AMD. Warhammer: Darktide inexplicably started puking frames after the latest update. Seems to be related to screen space reflections...and it only does it on my 6700 XT, while my much shittier-on-paper 3050 Ti Laptop has no problem.
 
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Why do you want to use openHAB? Homeassistant can do the same thing and you don't need any insane hardware for local voice processing. You use the Piper and Whisper addons to enable it. According to the docs it takes about 8 seconds on a Rpi and less than a second to process on an Intel NUC. If you're running a beefier server and use containers to run HA, I bet it will take barely any time.


Frigate NVR and Shinobi both support the Coral accelerator, but I don't know about how well openHAB integrates with either. My preference is for Frigate NVR as the devs are more helpful and receptive and the software itself is pretty awesome. I would opt for the PCIe accelerator as it runs a bit cooler, is a bit cheaper, and is a bit more reliable. I had issues getting the drivers installed and having Frigate recognize the Coral TPU on Debian 12 though. I tried it again in Fedora server and it worked like a charm.
I wasn't aware of homeassitant, or maybe I got it confused with openHAB. What are the differences between them?

And will i eventually be able to use a AMD RX 5700 for basic voice ai?
 
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I wasn't aware of homeassitant, or maybe I got it confused with openHAB. What are the differences between them?
They're both open source home automation software. OpenHAB is built from Java while Homeassistant uses python. I haven't used openHAB much so I can't really give a detailed comparison. However, the HA community support and overall userbase is a lot larger than openHAB's and it supports more devices if that matters. I think HA has better support for various sensors and hardware through addons.
 
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They're both open source home automation software. OpenHAB is built from Java while Homeassistant uses python. I haven't used openHAB much so I can't really give a detailed comparison. However, the HA community support and overall userbase is a lot larger than openHAB's and it supports more devices if that matters. I think HA has better support for various sensors and hardware through addons.
it looks like HA if you want to use plugins you have to install the OS in a virtual machine or docker container, and it does not like Debian 11. It does have more overhead, but I guess that won't be as big of an issue in my next server
 
I would argue NVIDIA cards are a much better buy than AMD cards due to DLSS3. Even at 2X upscaling, DLSS2 doesn't noticeably shimmer. So in practice, especially the way @WelperHelper99 is likely to use his machine, a $550 4070 is going to produce better graphics than the similarly priced 7800 XT. Additionally, I've noticed that if something devs do is going to run poorly on a particular card, it's going be AMD. Warhammer: Darktide inexplicably started puking frames after the latest update. Seems to be related to screen space reflections...and it only does it on my 6700 XT, while my much shittier-on-paper 3050 Ti Laptop has no problem.
Yeah. Much as it pains me, I basically always recommend Nvidia, even though they still don't have a decent Linux driver. Because frankly, making a passthrough VM to play games in a Windows VM through looking-glass is going to be less hassle than all the trouble you'll go through to get things like Stable Diffusion to run on an AMD card. For most people Nvidia cards are going to be better, even if on paper the price:performance isn't as good. Because DLSS makes the raw performance not matter all that much in games, and CUDA means anything AI you may want to do is just going to be much smoother.

I still don't agree with the 4070 though. The 16GB 4060 is going to be able to keep both SDXL and the refiner in memory simultaneously, which is an enormous performance boost. The 4070 would be swapping half of the refiner into system RAM, which would take you from something like 2it/s to 10s/it. For gaming you're right, the 4070 is a stronger card, but he specifically wants to play with AI, and for that the 4060 is actually significantly better. And DLSS means the performance impact is really going to be something like going from rendering at 75% resolution, to rendering at 67%. Which isn't huge, DLSS genuinely is very good even when it's being made to do a lot.
 
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And the 7600XT is the same card as the 7600. Same core count, just more memory.
4060TI all over again
Both of those cards can benefit from the extra memory in some cases, even with the slow 128-bit memory bus. It's all about the price. A 6700 XT 12 GB is obviously better than a 7600 XT 16 GB until that price drops.
 
it looks like HA if you want to use plugins you have to install the OS in a virtual machine or docker container, and it does not like Debian 11. It does have more overhead, but I guess that won't be as big of an issue in my next server
Last time I did it I just did "python3 -m venv foobar; . ./foobar/bin/activate ; pip install homeassistant"
after installing all the dependencies
And then I realized I was too lazy to switch from OpenHAB and deleted it.

Many of the Add-Ons are just doing stuff you can usually do from the command-line, like the Transmission Torrent Client or Samba where it's useful to do that if you have a machine dedicated to HA and don't know how to do that stuff yourself. So I'm not sure how much you really lose if you want to share a single machine. A few like Z-Wave.JS you would need if you're doing Z-Wave for instance, but it's still pretty simple.
 
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