GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

Idk. Reads more like "Intel good, dindu nuffin".

I've never seen an amd laptop sticker in person. I found this picture:

Screenshot 2024-05-08 111515.png

Looking at my laptop it just says "Intel core I9". So it doesn't have a generation number. Wow. Amazing. Is it at least a 12th gen? 13th? 14th? Idk. Would probably be nice to at least know that on the label.

*Edit* I will say the different colors is dumb. Anything you feel is worth mentioning about model should be done in text.
 
Idk. Reads more like "Intel good, dindu nuffin".

I've never seen an amd laptop sticker in person. I found this picture:

View attachment 5972183

Looking at my laptop it just says "Intel core I9". So it doesn't have a generation number. Wow. Amazing. Is it at least a 12th gen? 13th? 14th? Idk. Would probably be nice to at least know that on the label.
All I'm saying it's messy and it's going to lose people. Marketing is about simplicity. You can disagree if you want man. Laptop sales say otherwise.
 
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Wendell has officially declared mechanical storage dead.
You could if you're buying used. If you're just buying something off Amazon, a laptop, it's going to be relatively up to date and able to do whatever the core is listed as at the time it's bought.
A lot of online retailers are still selling 10th and eleventh gen garbage right next to the actually good 12th gen and up. That i7 means fuck all if there’s a good chance you’re getting something a fair bit worse than an i5 12400 or something instead.
 
For the F150 example given before, most people can visually see there is a difference between the 2010 F150 and the 2024 F150. They are physically different on the outside and inside that we can see. They may not be able to understand all the trim levels (eg the other numbers letters with the i7, ryzen7)

The CPUs are invisible to the user and even if you could see, they physical difference are so minute, you couldn't tell. Intel and AMD probably see it as a benefit to make the model names a bit fuzzy to understand for end user so they and their OEM partners can clear old stock.

I work with server parts on the daily and I can never remember the finer details about what the specific CPU numbers mean. I hardly expect normal consumers to known what the numbers and letters on a CPU model mean.

Intel Ark is a clear and straightforward resource to look up Intel parts. AMD doesn't have that clear a parts database, at least as far as I hav found.

This is a dumb and autistic hill to die on. Model numbers are not clear without external references to what everything means full stop.
 
I hardly expect normal consumers to known what the numbers and letters on a CPU model mean.
Surely there's a limit to this.

Is it going too far to think a consumer should understand a 14th gen is newer than a 13th gen?

That's literally the level of understanding we're talking about.

Forget the K, F, T, Es...whatever. Are generation numbers truly too hard?
 
Dude I've built both. A i7 is a i7, people instantly understand that. A ryzen 7 includes a 5700 and a 5800. That's literally a different core. While a i7 and a i7k is just the difference of having the apu or not, but it's still a i7.

k is core unlocked. F is no GPU. Shows how confusing the labeling is. However, that aside, Intel Ark is a fantastic website. All the details you could care about for any given CPU are there:

There is not much difference between AMD and Intel's numbering. AMD kind of purposely aped Intel's nomenclature:

i3 = Ryzen 3 = low end
i5 = Ryzen 5 = midrange
i7 = Ryzen 7 = gamer/enthusiast
i9 = Ryzen 9 = prosumer/rich/retard

The names were reasonably meaningful.

iZ-BC00z
Z = tier
B = generation
C = bigger is better
z = feature tag

Yes, this is a huge issue. Finding out which processor is actually in a given computer is really annoying, for both brands. You could get a 14900K, or you might get a 6900K, they’re both labelled “Intel Core i9 processor”. Useless.

A friend of mine had trouble running a game. She'd just gotten a cast-off 1080 from her son, so no problem on the GPU front. I asked her what CPU she had. "It's an i7, so it should be powerful enough." Well, it turned out to be an i7-3770. Got her hooked up with a 5000 series Ryzen box, and everything was fine.
 
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That seems not that compelling to me, given its probably going to be massively expensive.

Can I have one that skips the stupid tensor cores, since I want a graphics accelerator? Nobody will sell me that and I am unable to determine why. Supposedly the dynamic video sharpening stuff uses tensor cores but also nigger if I'm buying a 90 sku (I'm not but for sake of argument) I am not using the soy sub resolution rendering with the weird artifacting that is for poor people.
 
That seems not that compelling to me, given its probably going to be massively expensive.

Can I have one that skips the stupid tensor cores, since I want a graphics accelerator? Nobody will sell me that and I am unable to determine why. Supposedly the dynamic video sharpening stuff uses tensor cores but also nigger if I'm buying a 90 sku (I'm not but for sake of argument) I am not using the soy sub resolution rendering with the weird artifacting that is for poor people.
The tensors are also used for DLAA, which is arguably the best form of AA around at the moment. You can also use them for super-resolution, for example rendering in 4k, upscaling to 8k, then downscaling to 4k for display.
Frankly the tensors are half the selling point of these things. If you only want a rasterisation card, buy an AMD. Their high end is half the price of Nvidia’s, comparable in rasterisation, and since they rely on Vulkan and openCL, you’re not paying extra for tensors you feel you’ll never use.
 
Intel Ark is great and AMD (and other vendors) could learn or thing or two from it.
The one thing I hate about ARK is they are not truthful about memory capacity, usually for Atoms.

The Intel N97 supports 48 GB (at least), not 16 GB. I don't care what gay reasoning related to guaranteed speeds or whatever they have to explain this policy.

AMD on the other hand had to be bullied in order to specify the clock speeds for Zen 4 vs. Zen 4C cores on hybrid processors, and is trying to pass off some average of the two as an important number. They do some other weird stuff but I don't want to think about it right now.

Agreed. The number system is bullshit unless you already know what it is. Intel is simple for its core lineup- i3/i5/i7/i9. Yes they have some letters behind them but you basically know what you're getting. Telling a normie you have a 5800x3d is fucking obtuse.
Dude I've built both. A i7 is a i7, people instantly understand that. A ryzen 7 includes a 5700 and a 5800. That's literally a different core. While a i7 and a i7k is just the difference of having the apu or not, but it's still a i7.
I REGRET TO INFORM YOU that there is no i3/i5/i7/i9 anymore.

It's Core Ultra 5/7/9 XXX(K)(F)


We'll see if the normies react violently to the 'i' and '-' being dropped.
 
Can I have one that skips the stupid tensor cores, since I want a graphics accelerator? Nobody will sell me that and I am unable to determine why.

Same reason you can't buy a CPU without SIMD anymore. Tensor cores increase the floating-point performance ceiling of a GPU by about 8x. Since they're only around 1/5 of the space a core takes up on the die, you can't get that kind of performance by just increasing the number of scalar-only cores. Raytracing and DLSS aren't viable technologies without tensor cores.

The Intel N97 supports 48 GB (at least), not 16 GB. I don't care what gay reasoning related to guaranteed speeds or whatever they have to explain this policy.

A lot of times, it's signal integrity, and if that breaks down, you can't guarantee that what arrives in cache and what is in the DIMMs are actually the same thing. Typically means crashes all over the place.
 
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A lot of times, it's signal integrity, and if that breaks down, you can't guarantee that what arrives in cache and what is in the DIMMs are actually the same thing. Typically means crashes all over the place.
Well, ODROID is advertising 48 GB for their new N97 ODROID-H4(+) SBC, which would be from a single SO-DIMM stick in single-channel. And 64 GB may be available within the next year or two.

@The Mass Shooter Ron Soye

I believe there's also non-ultras, too. Just to add that little extra layer of "what am I buying?"
Can I interest you in an Intel Processor 300 desktop? No, not that one.

What you're referring to is probably Raptor Lake-U Refresh:
Intel Core 7 150U
Intel Core 5 120U
Intel Core 3 100U

BTW, there is no known "Core Ultra 3" model yet other than the Intel® Core™ Ultra 3 processor 105UL which is for the embedded market.
 
Well, ODROID is advertising 48 GB for their new N97 ODROID-H4(+) SBC, which would be from a single SO-DIMM stick in single-channel. And 64 GB may be available within the next year or two.


Can I interest you in an Intel Processor 300 desktop? No, not that one.

What you're referring to is probably Raptor Lake-U Refresh:
Intel Core 7 150U
Intel Core 5 120U
Intel Core 3 100U

BTW, there is no known "Core Ultra 3" model yet other than the Intel® Core™ Ultra 3 processor 105UL which is for the embedded market.
I think people are going to look back and think fondly of how simple the iX-XXXX was.
 
I think people are going to look back and think fondly of how simple the iX-XXXX was.
I won't, it's still stupid. I've had many people think old i7s perform better than current i5s.

Higher number better. Done.

AMD, Intel, nVidia... they all have examples of shady confusing number schemes now, so it's over.
 
I won't, it's still stupid. I've had many people think old i7s perform better than current i5s.

Higher number better. Done.

AMD, Intel, nVidia... they all have examples of shady confusing number schemes now, so it's over.
If bigger number = better...then how do people think an older i7 is better than a newer i5?

Oh yeah. Because apparently Intel doesn't market gen number and that's somehow a good thing.
 
Raytracing isn't viable without tensor cores.
Interesting, I looked it up and it seems to be true? I had assumed ray tracing only benefitted from the ray tracing cores and the tensor cores were pretty much idle in a RT game. I guess its okey then
 
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