- Joined
- Apr 19, 2021
Might be worth trying those programs in wine or just VM it.
GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.
- Thread starter Smaug's Smokey Hole
- Start date
- Joined
- May 5, 2022
I have a question for you folks. How often do you build a new PC? I've always considered building a new build for the sake of a new built to be "wasteful" so I do not build until my previous system's original parts (CPU+MB) literally dies permanently. I do however keep a "backup" PC I can boot into just in case.
For me...
K6 (2002-2010) - Gifted to a friend who needed it more
Athlon 64 x2 (2007-2017) - Gave it to grandfather who plays Men of War Assault Squad 2 on it somehow....
Core2Quad/Core2Duo (2010-2011)-Shitty imho since the MB kept dying, although that's probably an ECS issue*
Phenom II (2014-???) - Board died recently since I'm using a ITX board with a 1090 lol. Doubles as makeshift room heater.
Ryzen (2017-???) - Had issues with the SEGV and MWAIT instruction (As well as C state issues), otherwise okay.
*All my core2 boards sucked ass:
ECS - Wouldn't recognize my IDE sockets every 6 months so it was musical chairs. Caught on fire.
Asus - Died within 4 months
Gigabyte - Bios would self wipe every few months. Fried CPU, lol.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
I never build a new PC, everything is an incremental upgrade. Then those parts get used other places, etc.
I have technically 3 'desktops' right now. Over the last couple years I managed to get 30x0 cards for all of them. A low powered couch computer. A HTPC/Gaming machine on the TV and my actual desktop. The couch system died a few months ago, so it kept the video, power and drives and got the CPU and RAM from the desktop and a spare ITX board I had for that CPU. Then the desktop kept the same video+power with a new CPU+MB+RAM.
Once that hardware ages out then it goes into one of the 2 file servers.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
I'm really tempted to buy one of AMD's new 7900XT. I know the price / performance point is pitched just at the level to make you go up to the 7900XTX but I think I can resist that in my case because I'm more about comparing it to what I have which is an old 480 with 8GB. I'm not a big gamer and I want something with lots of RAM for some AI noodling about. Nvidia has the edge with AI but I'm gambling that will change and I think 20GB of VRAM will offset it.
Main thing holding me back is that I expect there to be very limited supply of them at the actual MSRP and most of them will be heavily marked up. It's basically if I could wait until late January but that's going to miss Christmas which is when I actually have the most free time to play around with this. After New Years, it's going to be hectic again. Fuck - why did AMD have to wait and wait and wait to release these bloody things. It's like they want me to buy an Nvidia card.
Main thing holding me back is that I expect there to be very limited supply of them at the actual MSRP and most of them will be heavily marked up. It's basically if I could wait until late January but that's going to miss Christmas which is when I actually have the most free time to play around with this. After New Years, it's going to be hectic again. Fuck - why did AMD have to wait and wait and wait to release these bloody things. It's like they want me to buy an Nvidia card.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2021
I would like to hear your guys opinion on this hardware released by Minisforum recently: https://store.minisforum.com/products/elitemini-hx90g?variant=43244394578165
This is a mini-pc with a laptop discrete GPU in it (the RX 6600M). I've been thinking about building myself a mini-itx system over the last year or so, but I haven't bitten the bullet yet due to other expenses and the fact I have never built a PC from the ground-up. I've finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to purchase some parts, and then I stumble upon this thing for a seemingly decent price. Currently I'm using a crappy gaming laptop with a 3050 in it, so almost any desktop system would be a step-up for me at this point. The obvious downsides are that you are unable to upgrade the CPU or the GPU, and the GPU is relatively low power for the price. I'm also skeptical of the thermals on this thing. What do you guys think? Are using laptop discrete GPUs the future of mini and enthusiast systems?
Supposedly they are releasing a new one soon with a 6900HX
This is a mini-pc with a laptop discrete GPU in it (the RX 6600M). I've been thinking about building myself a mini-itx system over the last year or so, but I haven't bitten the bullet yet due to other expenses and the fact I have never built a PC from the ground-up. I've finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to purchase some parts, and then I stumble upon this thing for a seemingly decent price. Currently I'm using a crappy gaming laptop with a 3050 in it, so almost any desktop system would be a step-up for me at this point. The obvious downsides are that you are unable to upgrade the CPU or the GPU, and the GPU is relatively low power for the price. I'm also skeptical of the thermals on this thing. What do you guys think? Are using laptop discrete GPUs the future of mini and enthusiast systems?
Supposedly they are releasing a new one soon with a 6900HX
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
My short answer, I think off-the-shelf mini-PCs like that are really neat and have a tone of uses. I'd like one. But I also feel they're too expensive for what they are. Not compared to building your own. Just in absolute terms.
But then I look at them more as a hobbyist / media server / try stuff out thing. If you have a use for it that justifies the price... or you're just richer than me, they look good. Sorry that's not more in-depth. I don't see why laptop GPUs or even APUs aren't the future of the mainstream. They're already good enough to game on, upscaling technologies let you use them on larger screens. Frankly, mid-range discrete GPUs are already luxury items. For the price of them you can get a game console which is a complete gaming system. So absolutely laptop GPUs and APUs will be mainstream imo. Home PCs as we think of them are potentially having their last hurrah.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
I remember the first time I expressed interest in Linux back in the 00s, the resident sperg got me started on Slackware. I got stuck on having to write a config file for the mouse before it would work, and he smugly responded, "If you want your operating system to automatically recognize your mouse, you're not ready for Linux."
Never built one from scratch; closest I've come is a barebones PC that I added a few things to. I replace Windows PCs every 5 or 6 years, while just retired my MacBook Pro after a decade. The MB Pro is built like a tank, and OSX gets tested on old systems to make sure that people with older machines don't get crippled by OS updates. (10 years is a bit long - I think Sierra was the last one it ran.). Caveat: I just replaced an i7-7700/5700XT PC with an i9-12900/6700XT mini. I didn't really need to and could have easily gotten 1-2 years more out of my now-retired machine. I just wanted to. Reality is that PC builds are more and more future-proof all the time. Used to be a low-end gaming PC was good for maybe 3-4 years, and now it's good for 7-10.
The GPU in this thing is AMD's equivalent to the 3050, so no, this won't be an upgrade from your laptop. It will be no different than just plugging your laptop into a monitor. I really like minis, but you have to understand you're paying for a tiny form factor and professional QA on the build, and you'll be gaming in 1080p. Thermals will be fine. The thing vents directly to the outside and uses low-wattage parts.
If you are thinking about building your own mini and have never built a PC before, you are rolling the dice on a long period of frustration. Look up through the thread at how many home builds have serious part failures. Even really shit-tier prebuilts go through some minimal stress-testing before they're boxed up and shipped out. Sure, your build might go fine. You might also think you're getting a good deal on RAM that ends up being from a shit vendor that fails immediately.
Stasi
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
On the price point - it's worth checking the secondhand market where you live. Not for these specifically but business oriented machines that have a similar form factor. Lenovo, Dell and HP all have these ultra SFF models and when they flood the market when local businesses replace their existing machines they can be had for good prices.
Used an older one with a Ryzen APU as a living room multimedia and gaming machine and don't really have any complaints.
- Joined
- May 4, 2020
I usually plan on running a system for five to ten years, barring a critical hardware failure or some massive leap in technology. The technology side of things has simmered down immensely and we aren't seeing huge leaps like we used to, at least not leaps that necessitate a new system. And I haven't had many hardware failures either; the early 2000s was the worst period for me in terms of DOA hardware or random hardware deaths.
And like you, I keep my previous system and find other uses for it. My last computer has made a great media center and it gets regular use. And the computer before that is mostly a giant brain/server that is in a perpetual state of being gangbanged by external hard drives.
I am a big fan of the mini computers. You can get one of those mid-tier Lenovo office computers that is the size of your hand and mount it to the back of your TV and you've got a great media controller. That is what I plan to do in the next year.
You mentioned wanting to build Mini-ITX so allow me to offer my two cents. I've built two systems to that spec and while they are both great, they both require more attention to detail and you have to be very careful about the case you put the thing in so that you can fit all of your hardware properly. You'll also be limited by GPUs because you're probably not going to be able to use anything larger than 300mm or more likely 290mm. So make sure you double and triple check everything and post your build ideas here so other people can look at it with fresh eyes.
With all that said, if you want to do the Mini-ITX build for the challenge, go for it. But if you don't need the system to be that small and your desire for such a small build is tepid at best, just go with something that is a more standard size and save yourself the headache.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
By the way, MSI makes small form-factor gaming PCs. $1700 for a PC with an i9-12900KF, RTX 3070-Ti, and 16 GB DDR5:
Those are desktop parts, not laptop parts. This thing can easily handle any game you throw at it, and the GPU and CPU should be good for a long time. It's about as slim as a machine of that spec can get. That's a very good machine, more powerful and much cheaper than Intel's Dragon Canyon NUC.
Those are desktop parts, not laptop parts. This thing can easily handle any game you throw at it, and the GPU and CPU should be good for a long time. It's about as slim as a machine of that spec can get. That's a very good machine, more powerful and much cheaper than Intel's Dragon Canyon NUC.
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2021
The lifetime of my all my various PCs has so far been about 10 years each. I very rarely upgrade, as in replace existing components with newer ones, but if I can add something like another stick of RAM or an extra SSD, I will.
When a PC becomes too long in the tooth, I just replace it whole even though it's technically functional. I prefer to save up to buy cutting edge and future-proof whenever I can, specifically so I don't have to think about upgrades.
Interestingly, I've had few significant hardware failures. Had one cap-plague-suffering motherboard recapped twice after which it got its shit together, and three hard drives crashed (and those I consider replaceable parts anyway), but that's about it.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2014
Looks decent, thermals are not going to be a issue because the case is meshed, now if you want to be on the safe side replace the factory fancooler for a low profile Noctua
- Joined
- May 5, 2022
The biggest issue is cooling. That and lack of more than one PCIE slot. One of my friends custom built a case were he had the PSU intake provide air as a cooling column between his board and GPU (as well as his NVME). I'll leave you to decide if that is foolish or not.
As for me since I live in a shithole for part of the year (China), had my setup in a desk with airflow holes and fans drilled underneath it. Probably not worth the effort but it was a good space heater.
May I remind you that it seems GPUs have only been getting larger, while the SFF market is not growing so there's no market demand in the eye of the vendors. I haven't seen something like the R9 nano forever.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2022
Whenever there's a generational leap in hardware. I try to get close to top-tier CPUs and follow the consoles for GPUs. I don't particularly care for high resolution and frame rates for games. So far it's been:
Core 2 Duo E6600 | X1800 XT >>> 5770
i5 2500 >>> i7 2600 | 5770 >>> 660 (it's now a headless NAS)
Ryzen 2700 >>> 5950X | RX 580 >>> N33 (when it's released)
I don't want to build towers anymore, and build a proper rack space instead, I can even offload Steam to a server now.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
I really like my Silverstone SUGO 15, ITX, 330mm Video compatible, a boatload of fans or radiators if you like water, fairly large CPU cooler compatibility. A little chunky but not too bad. The PSU in the middle is a bit of an interesting choice but it seems to work well.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
Me neither if I'm completely honest, it was four in the morning and I couldn't sleep.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
I don't see why anyone wouldn't pay an extra $100 to get a 7900XTX when they are already paying $900. That will probably be the conclusion that reviewers are going to reach on Monday. It's an unusual pricing situation. Compare to the on paper launch MSRPs of the 6800 XT ($649) and 6900 XT ($999). Maybe the 7900XT will sell badly and drift down towards $800-850 where it belongs.
I hope you are right about AI on AMD. They need to cross the chasm.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
Well of course you and I both know that this is why they are pricing the two cards the way they are. They want to charge X for their product but know people might balk. So they release a lesser product for X - y dollars where y is a small enough value compared to the value gain of the better product that people mentally accept the value of the lesser product because it's cheaper, but then stump up the extra money for the pricier one.
Basically, get the person evaluating the cost difference between the two which is a small number and therefore seems acceptable, rather than contemplating the absolute value which is enormous and which would cause them to balk. The human brain is amazing but it's focused on comparing relative options. If you get it focused on what comparing small differences you control rather than larger basic issues, than then you can bypass a lot of its judgement capability. That's how
TL;DR: I think the 7900XT will be sufficient for my needs and it draws less power and is smaller. You're probably right though and I'll pay a premium if I buy when it's released rather than wait like you suggest. I've just been putting off buying this for a long time, chiefly waiting for this new gen. Lack of the card is holding me up from some of the things I want to do.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2019
7900 XTX is the same launch MSRP as the 6900 XT and undercuts the RTX 4080, so not out of the ordinary for prospective AMD buyers.
This time around, they are using chiplets. Moore's Law is Dead speculated that the 7900 XT is simply the result of subtracting about $100 from the BOM cost, from losing a 16 MB cache chiplet, 4 GB of VRAM, and the lesser die. AMD might not be Overly Serious about either card, but especially the 7900 XT.
They have room to release a 7950 XT(X) next year, using rumored 2-HI stacked cache chiplets to double the Infinity Cache size, and faster VRAM. That could hit at least $1100, like the 6950 XT.
Anyway, good luck.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2019
@The Mass Shooter Ron Soye I see what you did there. -.-