GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[WelperHelper99]

The only people who have actual reason to say that are those working with some Mac specific equipment.

99% of that attitude, at least in the previous decade, is boomerism, elitism, and (most importantly) inertia in the arts world, especially after Apple killed FCP7 in 2011. After that, a great many of editing work that isn't destined for broadcast - wedding videos, corporate avps, youtube videos, etc. were (and still are) being done on Adobe Premiere - a cross platform software.

Apart from a usually better display, there really isn't anything that you can do that Macs couldn't. Ever been to wedding studio? They're all open/home offices with editors shoulder to shoulder on MacBook pros from a time when Macs weren't all that impressive in battery life. The only really good reason was existing equipment that were based on Macs.

You too might party annually (or spend money on spilled liquor) on the anniversary of Steve's passing when you've done several events where everything was last minute because everyone insisted on working on MBPs that took forever to render shit out.

Everyone insisted "Macs are for artists" with a smug sense of self satisfaction and superiority. Creatives come up with marketing and then lap it up themselves.

I'll be taking those top hats, thanks.

I mean I agree. Unless you are doing something so wild that you need all those extra cores, a x86 works fine. For me,bif it reads email, connects to the web, plays vidya at reasonable settings, it's a good computer

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

Unless you are doing something so wild that you need all those extra cores, a x86 works fine.

Oh no, it's even worse than that.

This was the Intel days of Mac. They buy a Mac to needlessly stay up rendering all night, because the MBP they all have is too weak to do everything in a timely manner.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Oh no, it's even worse than that.

This was the Intel days of Mac. They buy a Mac to needlessly stay up rendering all night, because the MBP they all have is too weak to do everything in a timely manner.

Oh yeah, they were Intel machines for a long time. Youbwere basically only getting the software compared to the Macs of today

 

[barrow greeter]

Many in this thread are all jazzed about evangelizing the Apple Silicon laptops for their admittedly fantastic battery life, but don't forget all the negative things about modern Apple hardware are more of a factor than ever in their designs.

- Glued together, hard to service (literally glued together, not hyperbole, see displays and batteries)
- Parts linked to specific machine with serial numbers and replacements locked out via T1 chip
- Hard to even purchase real replacement parts, even if you could properly install them without Apple (you basically can't, see point above)
- Looking at performance alone, still overpriced compared to competition
- Limited OS choices, no longer any support for booting Windows natively, limited Linux distros available

Just for some context, I don't shit on Apple just to be anti, I used to be a Mac user for over 20 years.

 

[BPD Gunt Rider]

And they might be more serious about keeping AM4 around than you believe, because it's the budget option and the DDR4 option.

I don't like the trend recently of tech companies outright using previous generation mid-range parts as their "budget" option now. AMD has especially been predatory with the cadence of their X3D CPUs.

I mean I agree. Unless you are doing something so wild that you need all those extra cores, a x86 works fine. For me,bif it reads email, connects to the web, plays vidya at reasonable settings, it's a good computer

Same for the vast majority of people. But, sadly, it's the hardest price range to find educated opinions on, along with fanboys shaming you for not having high-priced parts you don't need.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

I don't like the trend recently of tech companies outright using previous generation mid-range parts as their "budget" option now. AMD has especially been predatory with the cadence of their X3D CPUs.

It makes sense though. One problem AMD has is that wafers get increasingly expensive as TSMC moves to more advanced process nodes, possibly even increasing $/transistor. They also have to prioritize their most expensive leading edge Epyc parts, which share chiplets with the desktop lineup, among other premium products. Why not continue to produce the last gen chips on 6/7nm, on the mature and stable AM4 platform, that supports cheaper DDR4 memory? The 5800X3D is capable of holding its own against newer chips anyway.

The strategy is more clear (as mud) in the mobile space, where Ryzen 7000 mobile consists of Zen 2 Mendocino (7020, 6nm), Zen 3 Barcelo Refresh (7030, 7nm), Zen 3+ Rembrandt Refresh (7035, 6nm), Zen 4 Phoenix (7040, 4nm), and Zen 4 Dragon Range (7045, 5nm+6nm desktop chiplets). The naming scheme is definitely predatory, but it's smart to continue using these old process nodes to increase the volume they can sell, and avoid disabling perfectly good 8-core chips down to quad-cores just to satisfy the budget buyers.

Too bad Mendocino is always overpriced.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Many in this thread are all jazzed about evangelizing the Apple Silicon laptops for their admittedly fantastic battery life, but don't forget all the negative things about modern Apple hardware are more of a factor than ever in their designs.

- Glued together, hard to service (literally glued together, not hyperbole, see displays and batteries)
- Parts linked to specific machine with serial numbers and replacements locked out via T1 chip
- Hard to even purchase real replacement parts, even if you could properly install them without Apple (you basically can't, see point above)
- Looking at performance alone, still overpriced compared to competition
- Limited OS choices, no longer any support for booting Windows natively, limited Linux distros available

Just for some context, I don't shit on Apple just to be anti, I used to be a Mac user for over 20 years.

The issue is your average modern Apple buyer actually likes this stuff.

More and more people want tech to be like a simple appliance to use.

 

[DavidS877]

The issue is your average modern Apple buyer actually likes this stuff.

More and more people want tech to be like a simple appliance to use.

The first mice typically had 2 or 3 buttons. Apple decided that was too confusing and came out with a 1 button mouse. Then even that was too hard so they released a 0 button mouse... more or less.

 

[Fcret]

Many in this thread are all jazzed about evangelizing the Apple Silicon laptops for their admittedly fantastic battery life, but don't forget all the negative things about modern Apple hardware are more of a factor than ever in their designs.

- Glued together, hard to service (literally glued together, not hyperbole, see displays and batteries)
- Parts linked to specific machine with serial numbers and replacements locked out via T1 chip
- Hard to even purchase real replacement parts, even if you could properly install them without Apple (you basically can't, see point above)
- Looking at performance alone, still overpriced compared to competition
- Limited OS choices, no longer any support for booting Windows natively, limited Linux distros available

Just for some context, I don't shit on Apple just to be anti, I used to be a Mac user for over 20 years.

Believe me, I would love to escape the Apple insane asylum. It is only the utter failure of every other vendor in this space to produce a laptop that isn't a rickety piece of shit that has moved me become a Macfag.

The best timeline is the one where governments buttfuck Apple into having to seriously support right-to-repair for their laptops.

 

[The Ugly One]

- Glued together, hard to service (literally glued together, not hyperbole, see displays and batteries)
- Parts linked to specific machine with serial numbers and replacements locked out via T1 chip
- Hard to even purchase real replacement parts, even if you could properly install them without Apple (you basically can't, see point above)

- Limited OS choices, no longer any support for booting Windows natively, limited Linux distros available

Laptops aren't really the platform of choice for DIY enthusiasts to begin with.

- Looking at performance alone, still overpriced compared to competition

If you're only going to look at one component, it makes no sense to compare the price of the entire device.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Laptops aren't really the platform of choice for DIY enthusiasts to begin with

I press x to doubt, I'm fairly normie man and even I upgraded my ram from 8 to 16 gb

I don't like the trend recently of tech companies outright using previous generation mid-range parts as their "budget" option now. AMD has especially been predatory with the cadence of their X3D CPUs.

I mean it's nice for me getting relatively cheap parts that were yesteryear top of the line for my build.

Same for the vast majority of people. But, sadly, it's the hardest price range to find educated opinions on, along with fanboys shaming you for not having high-priced parts you don't need.

You're not wrong actually gauging how good a Apple PC is is kinda hard, they're expensive. Really I just judge by what I'm capable with with the equipment I have. My HP laptop might be a shitbox, but it's still faster than anything I grew up with, and that's just a quad core i5 and Intel iris graphics. It can't do everything but it can do quite a bit. So I've determined I don't NEED a Mac. Itd be nice to hear a unbiased take on their hardware though, it's still interesting, but the fanboyism makes me a x86 fan

 

[Susanna]

Itd be nice to hear a unbiased take on their hardware though, it's still interesting, but the fanboyism makes me a x86 fan

You realise most of the tech nerds enthusing about Apple Silicon are actually diehard Windows and Linux fans, right? They're biased away from Apple, but still find themselves forced to acknowledge Apple laptops are far superior in terms of hardware right now.

 

[WelperHelper99]

You realise most of the tech nerds enthusing about Apple Silicon are actually diehard Windows and Linux fans, right? They're biased away from Apple, but still find themselves forced to acknowledge Apple laptops are far superior in terms of hardware right now.

Look I can get that. A modern x86 is still superior to the supercomputers that rendered the cgi in TRON in the 80s. My thing is, sure Apple has power. For what? What are you doing with all those cores? It seems just to make their equipment more expensive

 

[Fcret]

Look I can get that. A modern x86 is still superior to the supercomputers that rendered the cgi in TRON in the 80s. My thing is, sure Apple has power. For what? What are you doing with all those cores? It seems just to make their equipment more expensive

Dev work? Docker? Minikube? There are actual workloads that benefit from having tons of cores, especially if you're a developer.

 

[Susanna]

Look I can get that. A modern x86 is still superior to the supercomputers that rendered the cgi in TRON in the 80s. My thing is, sure Apple has power. For what? What are you doing with all those cores? It seems just to make their equipment more expensive

The power is secondary. There are many x86 processors that can compete with Apple Silicon for compute, even in a laptop, and my desktop can crush a Mac Studio/Pro easily even though it isn't strictly top tier. What Apple has is great power and superb efficiency. A Macbook Pro can work literally all day, 16+ hours, while a Windows laptop doing the same work will drain its battery in two or three hours. And work in this case means the same as "game", computer doesn't care whether the math it's doing is being put into something productive or something entertaining. In mobile platforms, as compared to competing Windows products, Apple offers high-tier performance and absolutely unrivalled efficiency. Windows laptops that match it in battery life have so little performance they're barely usable even for just web browsing, and Windows laptops that match Apple in compute/graphics don't have anywhere near the battery life.
With a macbook, I can unplug from the wall, go to work, work all day, come home, watch films or game all evening, and only plug back into the wall overnight. With a Windows laptop I have to plug into the wall for half an hour every two hours. My 7840HS laptop can match a macbook in pure compute/game metrics, but battery life is a huge part of a quality laptop, and it just comes nowhere near being able to compete. The macbook can match it in performance, all day long. The x86 laptop conks out after just a few hours. And that's despite the 7840HS having a node advantage, TSMC 4nm vs TSMC 5nm. M2 Pro is just that much better.

 

[WelperHelper99]

The power is secondary. There are many x86 processors that can compete with Apple Silicon for compute, even in a laptop, and my desktop can crush a Mac Studio/Pro easily even though it isn't strictly top tier. What Apple has is great power and superb efficiency. A Macbook Pro can work literally all day, 16+ hours, while a Windows laptop doing the same work will drain its battery in two or three hours. And work in this case means the same as "game", computer doesn't care whether the math it's doing is being put into something productive or something entertaining. In mobile platforms, as compared to competing Windows products, Apple offers high-tier performance and absolutely unrivalled efficiency. Windows laptops that match it in battery life have so little performance they're barely usable even for just web browsing, and Windows laptops that match Apple in compute/graphics don't have anywhere near the battery life.
With a macbook, I can unplug from the wall, go to work, work all day, come home, watch films or game all evening, and only plug back into the wall overnight. With a Windows laptop I have to plug into the wall for half an hour every two hours. My 7840HS laptop can match a macbook in pure compute/game metrics, but battery life is a huge part of a quality laptop, and it just comes nowhere near being able to compete. The macbook can match it in performance, all day long. The x86 laptop conks out after just a few hours. And that's despite the 7840HS having a node advantage, TSMC 4nm vs TSMC 5nm. M2 Pro is just that much better.

It might be better, but it costs a ton. And it's not very hard for me to find a outlet. With a x86 laptop, with all im asking is for it to be a drone, sure that battery life would be nice. I don't nessicarily need it if I'm just using the word processor and internet. It depends on the application. The normie isn't going to be tapping the power of the M2 processor. It's not that it's bad, it's that the AVERAGE apple consoomer literally doesn't care about all the tricks under the hood and could do everything they normally do with a x86 laptop for half the price

 

[Susanna]

the AVERAGE apple consoomer literally doesn't care about all the tricks under the hood and could do everything they normally do with a x86 laptop for half the price

Except with the mac he can do it all day.
You don't care about battery life, because you don't mind plugging into the wall. That's just not an attitude I can understand. It's a laptop, it's supposed to be portable. If you have to anchor yourself to the wall all the time, then it's not really very portable, no?

 

[WelperHelper99]

Except with the mac he can do it all day.
You don't care about battery life, because you don't mind plugging into the wall. That's just not an attitude I can understand. It's a laptop, it's supposed to be portable. If you have to anchor yourself to the wall all the time, then it's not really very portable, no?

It all depends on what you're doing really. It still has battery life. If I really need to unplug it, I can. I just find I usually don't. I'm not taking it everywhere I go. It would be wasted on me

 

[Blue Miaplacidus]

I built a new computer a couple days ago and I'm using a HYTE Y60 case and I'm impressed with it's air flow. I'm not using liquid cooling, which this case is specifically designed for. I was planning on installing a loop later down the line but for now I'm just using two noctua 200mm and 5 old shitty apevia 120mm fans I had from an old case and it keeps everything really cool. I might not even bother changing it besides upgrading the shitty apevias.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

That's just not an attitude I can understand. It's a laptop, it's supposed to be portable.

I'm sorry that you're autistic and can't quite understand a middle ground between a fully portable, walk around all day laptop and being shackled to a desk PC in your house anytime you wish to use it.

My 18" is still portable. Oh no, you have to spend 10 seconds plugging it in. Totally the same as being stuck to a desk in a singular room away from everything else.

Do you have kids? If so this should be a really easy concept to understand. You can't just retreat into "the cave" when you wish, so if you want to use a PC in your own home it has to at least be able to move to a 2nd room.