Group Homes for Autistics

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I don't think it would work well.

I have some experience with autistic people. As we all know, autistic people enjoy routine and structure to their lives. I have noticed that this seems to lead to two diverging views of authority and authority figures. Some really enjoy the rules and structure they provide, and gravitate towards them. Others find that rules clash with the structure and routine they have for themselves, and resent and avoid authority. A group home/institution seems ideal for people who have this first type of personality, and really problematic for the second type.

I have an autistic relative who lives in a group home. The caregiver doesn't have to do much to maintain the house, because it was decided that the hour of 7pm-8pm was dedicated to chores. All the caregiver has to do is post a weekly rotation of who does what chore. All the residents are really into it, so the house gets 4 man hours a day of cleaning and upkeep. It is in really good shape.

Chris strikes me as someone who would find this really oppressive. Although maybe after a while he would be forced to adjust and end up embracing it.

I would be curious to hear from one of the autistic board members. How off-base is this analysis?
 
This is the only possible happy ending for cwc and it will never happen.
 
CatParty said:
This is the only possible happy ending for cwc and it will never happen.
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I dunno... I thought the hooker gave him a happy ending... :julay:
 
Homeless or jail. These are the only two options reality has left for him. Technically there's also heart failure, but I don't think he's that lucky.
 
I think Chris will essentially become homeless or in jail, unless the courts do force him to enter one of these homes.

When Barb dies, Chris will probably manage to live off the donation money (if there is any) just how Barb and Chris demanded money for themselves instead of flowers for Bob. He'll use that more than likely to buy more crap he doesn't need. Then he'll rummage around the house for food until there's none left. Then he'll likely use his tugboat money for McDonalds and more vidya games, maybe some more ugly "tomgirl" outfits. All this time he'll likely keep harassing girls to take care of him, as well as experiencing violent outbursts like the one he had when he vandalized that Xbox sign and had to be banned from walmart. At this point one of three things are going to happen;

1.) He'll fail to realize just how much living in a house costs, and will eventually have his water and electrical shut off. It's likely there's no mortgage so he'll technically "own" the house but with no light, heat or water it'll be overrun by insects and if the neighbors have it inspected it'll likely be condemned and Chris will have to leave. If not, Chris will either die in that house or he will leave on his own, likely being forced onto the streets to beg people for money. Er, that is, men to leave him alone and stop stealing women and women for money, a place to stay, china, ect ect. Basically he'll harass the crap out of all the women and demand they take care of him, which he'll likely be arrested for. Which brings me to #2.

2.) He'll probably be arrested at some point either for Sexual Harassment or for Assault. He'll end up in court only this time mommy won't be there to help and after the horrible "thank you" he gave to his lawyer (calling him a pussy and blaming him for everything, ect) he likely won't work for Chris anymore. Chris will be appointed a new lawyer and depending on how good this lawyer is things can end in one of two ways. He'll either be sent to jail for his crimes, only let out when he's paid his debt to society (if he lives long enough to do so because let's face it, Chris is pretty unhealthy)and Chris will either accept the in jail therapy or go right back to doing what he was earlier, which judging from previous similar situations is exactly what he'll keep doing. Or...

3.) Chris's lawyer will use his mental illness in order to try and get him off the hook. He'll likely be put in a mental hospital or group therapy home at this point. If he co-operates they may let him leave with a homecare worker, but if he doesn't (which he probably won't) he'll likely either be kept there or thrown in jail for assaulting a staff member or something else.

I think I put way too much thought into this.... TL;DR: Chris might be okay if he gets his shit together but do you REALLY think he'll get his shit together?
 
CalmMyTits said:
Well, to be fair, an institution is different from a group home. Group homes are great for high and even medium-functioning autistics. My SIL used to work in a group home, she checked on it every few days and among her jobs were...

-making sure that each tenant was spending their money appropriately (not going into debt, using their tugboat to buy food and other necessities before they used their money for fun)
-making sure the house itself was clean and chores were being done
-making sure each tenant was taking care of him/herself as needed, hygiene and medication-wise
-some counseling and mediation as needed when a problem arose
-coordinating and planning outings like to the zoo, etc

The residents of this home varied from 20's to 60's and I think there were 6 or 8 of them.

She no longer does this as she now works in special needs education, but she told me about it. Some autistics really benefit from this because it gives them a semi-normal life and relative freedom, and social interaction.

An institution on the other hand, sounds just that... an institution. An institution would be stricter and much more regimented than a group home, with much less tolerance for shit. (literal and figurative) and this would be what Chris needs immediately. (I honestly see institutionalization, and nothing else, as the first step in successfully helping Chris)

In a theoretical situation where a judge sees Chris is unfit to take care of himself (especially of he melts down in court) she could order him to an institution, and after a while, if he actually learns and manages to improve his attitude and behavior, he could then be moved into a group home. But he would definitely need some institutionalization first, because I doubt that in his current state, he would want to live with other portals to hell.
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Chris is functional enough to do well in a home, if he wanted to live in one and cooperate with the staff. The things you mentioned that they help with are exactly what Chris needs.

So far the court and psychiatrists have recognized him as a competent adult capable of making his own choices so choosing the institution route just because he would be forced into it doesn't seem right.
 
Holdek said:
CalmMyTits said:
Well, to be fair, an institution is different from a group home. Group homes are great for high and even medium-functioning autistics. My SIL used to work in a group home, she checked on it every few days and among her jobs were...

-making sure that each tenant was spending their money appropriately (not going into debt, using their tugboat to buy food and other necessities before they used their money for fun)
-making sure the house itself was clean and chores were being done
-making sure each tenant was taking care of him/herself as needed, hygiene and medication-wise
-some counseling and mediation as needed when a problem arose
-coordinating and planning outings like to the zoo, etc

The residents of this home varied from 20's to 60's and I think there were 6 or 8 of them.

She no longer does this as she now works in special needs education, but she told me about it. Some autistics really benefit from this because it gives them a semi-normal life and relative freedom, and social interaction.

An institution on the other hand, sounds just that... an institution. An institution would be stricter and much more regimented than a group home, with much less tolerance for shit. (literal and figurative) and this would be what Chris needs immediately. (I honestly see institutionalization, and nothing else, as the first step in successfully helping Chris)

In a theoretical situation where a judge sees Chris is unfit to take care of himself (especially of he melts down in court) she could order him to an institution, and after a while, if he actually learns and manages to improve his attitude and behavior, he could then be moved into a group home. But he would definitely need some institutionalization first, because I doubt that in his current state, he would want to live with other portals to hell.
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Chris is functional enough to do well in a home, if he wanted to live in one and cooperate with the staff. The things you mentioned that they help with are exactly what Chris needs.

So far the court and psychiatrists have recognized him as a competent adult capable of making his own choices so choosing the institution route just because he would be forced into it doesn't seem right.
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This is why I said he would need to be institutionalized first, before he could be 'upgraded' to a group home. As for the court and psychiatrists, we all know how they have failed him in the past because they just want less fuss and less muss. His teachers handled him the same way, and that is why he is such the failure that he is today.

GameFreak982928 said:
I think Chris will essentially become homeless or in jail, unless the courts do force him to enter one of these homes.

When Barb dies, Chris will probably manage to live off the donation money (if there is any) just how Barb and Chris demanded money for themselves instead of flowers for Bob. He'll use that more than likely to buy more crap he doesn't need. Then he'll rummage around the house for food until there's none left. Then he'll likely use his tugboat money for McDonalds and more vidya games, maybe some more ugly "tomgirl" outfits. All this time he'll likely keep harassing girls to take care of him, as well as experiencing violent outbursts like the one he had when he vandalized that Xbox sign and had to be banned from walmart. At this point one of three things are going to happen;

1.) He'll fail to realize just how much living in a house costs, and will eventually have his water and electrical shut off. It's likely there's no mortgage so he'll technically "own" the house but with no light, heat or water it'll be overrun by insects and if the neighbors have it inspected it'll likely be condemned and Chris will have to leave. If not, Chris will either die in that house or he will leave on his own, likely being forced onto the streets to beg people for money. Er, that is, men to leave him alone and stop stealing women and women for money, a place to stay, china, ect ect. Basically he'll harass the crap out of all the women and demand they take care of him, which he'll likely be arrested for. Which brings me to #2.

2.) He'll probably be arrested at some point either for Sexual Harassment or for Assault. He'll end up in court only this time mommy won't be there to help and after the horrible "thank you" he gave to his lawyer (calling him a pussy and blaming him for everything, ect) he likely won't work for Chris anymore. Chris will be appointed a new lawyer and depending on how good this lawyer is things can end in one of two ways. He'll either be sent to jail for his crimes, only let out when he's paid his debt to society (if he lives long enough to do so because let's face it, Chris is pretty unhealthy)and Chris will either accept the in jail therapy or go right back to doing what he was earlier, which judging from previous similar situations is exactly what he'll keep doing. Or...

3.) Chris's lawyer will use his mental illness in order to try and get him off the hook. He'll likely be put in a mental hospital or group therapy home at this point. If he co-operates they may let him leave with a homecare worker, but if he doesn't (which he probably won't) he'll likely either be kept there or thrown in jail for assaulting a staff member or something else.

I think I put way too much thought into this.... TL;DR: Chris might be okay if he gets his shit together but do you REALLY think he'll get his shit together?
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^I'm not sure if Chris will let utilities lapse. he's pretty stupid, but not a complete idiot, and when Bob was alive at least, he never had the whole tugboat check every month at his disposal. I think he actually has enough braincells to realize that he will need to pay bills.

The mortgage, if there is still one, will be a bit trickier. Mortgages are usually more hefty than utilities, even when you add up all the utilities. For many houses, a mortgage is at least 500 dollars, and usually more than 1,000. Chris would not be able to afford that and the utilities on its own, much less all the other little things he will need such as food and vidya.

Let's say that there is no mortgage and he's in the free and clear when this is concerned. There is still property tax to pay, and I don't know if Chris might ever be aware of that unless a tax collector comes to his house or the IRS contacts him. Remember, his language skills have deteriorated and who knows if he might fully comprehend a tax statement/bill sent to him, or just dismiss this as an attempt for the trolls to extort money from him.

There is also of course maintenance. The house is doubtlessly deteriorating faster than it normally would because of the Hoard and the vermin within. After Barb dies, I imagine Chris will just go back to hiding in his room and going to McD's for food runs. He might clear out a bit of the Hoard just to make it easier for him to get around, but there is no way he would take it upon himself to clean out the whole hoard.

Let's say a tax collector or bank agent or whoever, comes to the house when Chris becomes delinquent on either mortgage or property tax payments. Imagine their reaction to the state of the house. Chris would be really fucked then.
 
Actually one of the conditions of having SSI is a state caseworker who will check up on a recipient's behavior every so often. If Chris ever got too much over his head (Like not actually answering the check up correspondences) the state could then send folks over because of the certain nature of his type of disability. You also have to be tested every so often to see how your disability is and assess whether or not you require SSI anymore.
 
GameFreak982928 said:
1.) He'll fail to realize just how much living in a house costs, and will eventually have his water and electrical shut off.
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I would say that CalmMyTits is right about Chris not letting the utilities lapse. Chris is a retard, but ultimately, he's aware that he needs electricity to run his electronics.

GameFreak982928 said:
It's likely there's no mortgage so he'll technically "own" the house but with no light, heat or water it'll be overrun by insects and if the neighbors have it inspected it'll likely be condemned and Chris will have to leave.
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You're assuming too much here. There's a good chance they still have a mortgage, actually. And yeah, CalmMyTits is also right about the mortgage and property taxes. I don't think Chris has encountered the idea of property taxes or he wouldn't have any idea of how to handle it. That would definitely be a problem.

GameFreak982928 said:
2.) He'll probably be arrested at some point either for Sexual Harassment or for Assault. He'll end up in court only this time mommy won't be there to help and after the horrible "thank you" he gave to his lawyer (calling him a pussy and blaming him for everything, ect) he likely won't work for Chris anymore. Chris will be appointed a new lawyer and depending on how good this lawyer is things can end in one of two ways. He'll either be sent to jail for his crimes, only let out when he's paid his debt to society (if he lives long enough to do so because let's face it, Chris is pretty unhealthy)and Chris will either accept the in jail therapy or go right back to doing what he was earlier, which judging from previous similar situations is exactly what he'll keep doing. Or...
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People overestimate the significance of Chris' criminal side. Oct 28 did happen, of course, but I wouldn't regard it as something that would happen regularly. I wouldn't bet on it happening again. Chris had a specific enemy who he knew for awhile and had access to. I don't think he's going to have a good chance to have another enemy like that. I think Chris will just get himself banned from a bunch of places, business as usual.

Heh, and I don't think Rob Bell will take Chris' childish insults seriously. He knows Chris is an "adult child," plus, Chris is a client and there's money to be made. The bigger problem is that Chris might not be able to afford to hire him if he needs him.

GameFreak982928 said:
3.) Chris's lawyer will use his mental illness in order to try and get him off the hook. He'll likely be put in a mental hospital or group therapy home at this point. If he co-operates they may let him leave with a homecare worker, but if he doesn't (which he probably won't) he'll likely either be kept there or thrown in jail for assaulting a staff member or something else.
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Eh, you think so? Rob Bell kinda implied Chris' mental incompetence last time and a mental hospital wasn't considered. Maybe because he didn't specifically mention autism? I don't know.
 
I really doubt Chris will end up in a group home. Yes, he needs help to live like a normal individual instead of as an retard, but sadly, he's far more likely to end up like other mentally ill people and criminals and end up on the streets if he loses his home for some reason.

IIRC, the general consensus on the forum is that Chris will not be forced into a group home. He also has no interest of going into one of his own accord, which means it's very unlikely he'll end up in one in the future. He may get a caretaker once Barb dies, and that will be the closest thing he gets to a replacement Barb.
 
Marvin said:
Eh, you think so? Rob Bell kinda implied Chris' mental incompetence last time and a mental hospital wasn't considered. Maybe because he didn't specifically mention autism? I don't know.
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You do have good points, but the thing is this; when he was in court last time, he still had Barb, and I'd say Barb was the only reason they didn't consider a hospital or therapy home. Remember that Chris is still capable of caring for himself so long as there's someone watching over him, paying the bills, managing money, ect. If Chris ever got into serious legal trouble after Barb was gone? They'd probably insist that, without an authority figure, Chris is just a loose canon and a danger to the public. In that case the only solution would be to introduce a new authority.
 
GameFreak982928 said:
Marvin said:
Eh, you think so? Rob Bell kinda implied Chris' mental incompetence last time and a mental hospital wasn't considered. Maybe because he didn't specifically mention autism? I don't know.
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You do have good points, but the thing is this; when he was in court last time, he still had Barb, and I'd say Barb was the only reason they didn't consider a hospital or therapy home. Remember that Chris is still capable of caring for himself so long as there's someone watching over him, paying the bills, managing money, ect. If Chris ever got into serious legal trouble after Barb was gone? They'd probably insist that, without an authority figure, Chris is just a loose canon and a danger to the public. In that case the only solution would be to introduce a new authority.
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Who is "they"? There is no one who can insist such a thing. Chris is, in legal terms, an adult who can make his own decisions (and be held responsible for them).
 
timtommy said:
I don't think it would work well.

I have some experience with autistic people. As we all know, autistic people enjoy routine and structure to their lives. I have noticed that this seems to lead to two diverging views of authority and authority figures. Some really enjoy the rules and structure they provide, and gravitate towards them. Others find that rules clash with the structure and routine they have for themselves, and resent and avoid authority. A group home/institution seems ideal for people who have this first type of personality, and really problematic for the second type.

I have an autistic relative who lives in a group home. The caregiver doesn't have to do much to maintain the house, because it was decided that the hour of 7pm-8pm was dedicated to chores. All the caregiver has to do is post a weekly rotation of who does what chore. All the residents are really into it, so the house gets 4 man hours a day of cleaning and upkeep. It is in really good shape.

Chris strikes me as someone who would find this really oppressive. Although maybe after a while he would be forced to adjust and end up embracing it.

I would be curious to hear from one of the autistic board members. How off-base is this analysis?
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Also Chris is very lazy. He thinks simple chores are "back breaking work."
 
ChurchOfGodBear said:
Who is "they"? There is no one who can insist such a thing. Chris is, in legal terms, an adult who can make his own decisions (and be held responsible for them).
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"They" are the court of law and the judicial system. While Chris is legally an adult age-wise, if the courts deem him mentally incapable of taking care of himself and making his own decisions they can basically order him into whatever they want. They can appoint a care giver who would basically have power of attorney over Chris and be legally in control of his finances among other things. It's like when the hospital receives a patient with a head injury, say, and the patient tries to refuse treatment. Normally he would have the legal right to do so, but if his head injury is severe enough to inhibit his ability to think rationally then they may either transfer power of attorney to a legal relative or to the hospital itself, in which case they'd force him to accept treatment in order to save his life.

The courts and legal system have the power to do that, and considering that Barb is Chris' only living relative (who actually wants anything to do with him, that is) then should Chris be deemed at risk (IE a danger to himself or the public without appropriate treatment) the courts would have no choice but to put him in the care of a trained professional home care worker who can deal with his disability. Again, I'm talking extremes here, Chris would have to be REALLY far gone or would have to be in some SERIOUS legal trouble for this to happen. But it is legally possible.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a know-it-all, I'm not trying to. But my dad's a cop and I've seen stuff like this go down before. And I have no doubt that while it's unlikely, Chris isn't untouchable either and he could lose many of his rights should he mess up really bad after Barb's gone. Let's just hope Snorlax kicks around for a while so that doesn't happen.
 
GameFreak982928 said:
ChurchOfGodBear said:
Who is "they"? There is no one who can insist such a thing. Chris is, in legal terms, an adult who can make his own decisions (and be held responsible for them).
Click to expand...

"They" are the court of law and the judicial system. While Chris is legally an adult age-wise, if the courts deem him mentally incapable of taking care of himself and making his own decisions they can basically order him into whatever they want. They can appoint a care giver who would basically have power of attorney over Chris and be legally in control of his finances among other things. It's like when the hospital receives a patient with a head injury, say, and the patient tries to refuse treatment. Normally he would have the legal right to do so, but if his head injury is severe enough to inhibit his ability to think rationally then they may either transfer power of attorney to a legal relative or to the hospital itself, in which case they'd force him to accept treatment in order to save his life.

The courts and legal system have the power to do that, and considering that Barb is Chris' only living relative (who actually wants anything to do with him, that is) then should Chris be deemed at risk (IE a danger to himself or the public without appropriate treatment) the courts would have no choice but to put him in the care of a trained professional home care worker who can deal with his disability. Again, I'm talking extremes here, Chris would have to be REALLY far gone or would have to be in some SERIOUS legal trouble for this to happen. But it is legally possible.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a know-it-all, I'm not trying to. But my dad's a cop and I've seen stuff like this go down before. And I have no doubt that while it's unlikely, Chris isn't untouchable either and he could lose many of his rights should he mess up really bad after Barb's gone. Let's just hope Snorlax kicks around for a while so that doesn't happen.
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It's not really likely that he'd mess up that badly. I wouldn't say it's worth considering. Plus, I doubt Barb was the key to why Chris didn't lose independence. Both Barb and Chris were being charged for mostly the same crimes. The court probably saw them both as equally nuts.
 
I think the more likely place Chris will end up is jail. We all know it's just a matter of time until he does something stupid and gets arrested again. So far he's always had someone to come get him out and/or played the autism card to get off easy. If Barb is gone, family connections are weak or cut off, Rocky and the church abandoned for failing to deliver a girlfriend, and Rob Bell a wuss, who will bail him out? Add a growing criminal record and the autism card might not be enough to cut it, Chris could do some real time. He could lose the house if the authorities find out about conditions in there, or if he just fails to take care of taxes.
So, what happens when Chris gets out of jail and has no place to go? Will he end up homeless? Or will the state step in and put him in a halfway home or a place for mentally handicapped people?
 
Sakamoto said:
I think the more likely place Chris will end up is jail. We all know it's just a matter of time until he does something stupid and gets arrested again. So far he's always had someone to come get him out and/or played the autism card to get off easy. If Barb is gone, family connections are weak or cut off, Rocky and the church abandoned for failing to deliver a girlfriend, and Rob Bell a wuss, who will bail him out? Add a growing criminal record and the autism card might not be enough to cut it, Chris could do some real time. He could lose the house if the authorities find out about conditions in there, or if he just fails to take care of taxes.
So, what happens when Chris gets out of jail and has no place to go? Will he end up homeless? Or will the state step in and put him in a halfway home or a place for mentally handicapped people?
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I actually think it's very unlikely he'll do something to get arrested again. Or, well, unintentionally, at least.
 
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