Half Life thread - Discussions about Valve's FPS magnum opus(es) and any related content (spin offs, expansions and etc)

[Newcomer 42]

You guys really believe that a new HL game is coming out, huh. Even if it does, what's stopping Valve from adding Denuvo, fully wokyfing the game by having Gordon replaced by a sassy afro nigress (or Alyx), make Barney endure an endless humiliation ritual before a pathetic death, and have the Combine's supreme leader be a TRUMPF! reference, or all of the above?

 

[Red Frida]

You guys keep bringing up the cash grab angle and I don't see it, again I will agree that money is partially the reason, but they themselves gave reasons as to why the episodes were even done. Also qualityslop, really?

I'm not trying to communicate that Valve shouldn't make money, the matter is that they charged more for less content. They started putting sawdust into the sausage.
Between Episode 1 and Episode 2 you end up paying more than you did for HL2 and you ended up with redundant keys (for HL2, Episode 1), Episode 2, and TF2.
For that price you should have gotten a full HL3, not two small expansion packs. TF Classic was released for free with HL1 in comparison.
You also paid full price for Episode 2 in exchange for redundant keys of HL2 and Episode 1. There was a plan at one point for a discounted black box (by $10 or $20) that didn't contain HL2 and Episode 1 but that was axed because $$$. But at any rate it was a burning of people's money if they bought Episode 1 alone before the Orange Box came out.
They did the same thing with L4D by releasing L4D2 about one year afterwards, they split the L4D and in the end ported L4D to L4D2. What was the point of buying L4D then?
Qualityslop is intended as a joke but it is kind of true in a way, if the game quality was bad people would have been outraged over those marketing decisions.
The practice of upping the price for Orange Box and obsoleting L4D if you bought it cost Valve returning customers probably about $70 more each than brand new customers who never bought previous copies of their games, and arguably less content when it's expected that you would at one point buy a full fledged HL3 fo $50 and instead for more money got 2/3 of a single player game, a multiplayer game that would've been free in the past (and now has been made free and unplayable but sorry, no refunds), and a slight upgrade to a multiplayer game you just bought that somewhat proved the first version you paid for was incomplete.
I'm not trying to say Valve can't charge money for content but my point is they engaged in nickel and dime behavior. That's a cash grab. If you don't understand, I guess there fundamentally isn't going to be a place for agreement on that matter.
In this context I'm kind of glad Valve shifted to being a publisher rather than continuing this type of game development practice. At least now on Steam I can buy games that I know are complete and provide sufficient value for money rather than only buy gradually enshittified Valve games.

Laidlaw's also stated that Epistle 3 came from a place of "derangement" and that he was "extremely isolated" when he wrote it, so there's that point too.

Probably at that point he was well sidelined because Valve focused on maintaining the cash cow Steam platform rather than build narrative games. It wasn't the same company he joined at that point. I'm not saying that this was an incorrect decision on Valve's part by the way. Laidlaw probably should have just sucked it up and learned better how to program and make small "indie" sized games with his payroll and tenure at Valve instead of bitching about how the engineers there didn't want to spend time on a less profitable project. Instead he crashed out.

 

[Battlefield42]

You guys really believe that a new HL game is coming out, huh. Even if it does, what's stopping Valve from adding Denuvo, fully wokyfing the game by having Gordon replaced by a sassy afro nigress (or Alyx), make Barney endure an endless humiliation ritual before a pathetic death, and have the Combine's supreme leader be a TRUMPF! reference, or all of the above?

Bait

 

[Star Classic]

'm not trying to communicate that Valve shouldn't make money, the matter is that they charged more for less content. They started putting sawdust into the sausage.
Between Episode 1 and Episode 2 you end up paying more than you did for HL2 and you ended up with redundant keys (for HL2, Episode 1), Episode 2, and TF2.
For that price you should have gotten a full HL3, not two small expansion packs. TF Classic was released for free with HL1 in comparison.

Not going to excuse it but the Episodes were supposed to be Half-Life 3, though I'll gladly say that was a misstep.

Probably at that point he was well sidelined because Valve focused on maintaining the cash cow Steam platform rather than build narrative games. It wasn't the same company he joined at that point. I'm not saying that this was an incorrect decision on Valve's part by the way.

Sorta. I don't know if I agree that steam was their number one priority, Valve's always worked in cordoned off cliques, though the Steam one was mostly certainly the biggest. It wasn't that Valve wasn't trying to make new games, there's a section titled "The Wild" in the Final Hours of Half-Life Alyx that shows in-between Portal 2 and Alyx there was actually quite a few projects in production, the problem was that because of the way the company was set up there was very little support, it's like how WAW zombies was done as a side project or HL2DM being developed as a little fun project, the issue was that was applying to every single new project at Valve. The only reason Alyx exists is because Valve realized that the "work on whatever you want!" means nothing ever gets done. That said it's a shame Laidlaw left before they came to that conclusion.

Laidlaw probably should have just sucked it up and learned better how to program and make small "indie" sized games with his payroll and tenure at Valve instead of bitching about how the engineers there didn't want to spend time on a less profitable project. Instead he crashed out.

Well, I actually just remembered. He was trying to do smaller titles, he wanted to do a tech demo for VR titled "Borealis" that would've been a fishing minigame that would show scenes from the Seven Hour War and other stuff. Again, there was no company support so it floundered for a bit and then promptly died on the vine like everything after 2011 and before 2019.

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

Yet another long tismy video essay about Half-Life and Black Mesa has been posted on YouTube.

"So, (don't) wake up, Mr. Freeman. (Don't) wake up and... gaze upon the timeline where the term 'unc slop' exists."

 

[Rust Troony]

Sorta. I don't know if I agree that steam was their number one priority, Valve's always worked in cordoned off cliques, though the Steam one was mostly certainly the biggest. It wasn't that Valve wasn't trying to make new games, there's a section titled "The Wild" in the Final Hours of Half-Life Alyx that shows in-between Portal 2 and Alyx there was actually quite a few projects in production, the problem was that because of the way the company was set up there was very little support, it's like how WAW zombies was done as a side project or HL2DM being developed as a little fun project, the issue was that was applying to every single new project at Valve. The only reason Alyx exists is because Valve realized that the "work on whatever you want!" means nothing ever gets done. That said it's a shame Laidlaw left before they came to that conclusion.

They also got stuck in a rigamarole of trying to simultaneously develop source 2 and games using the engine, which lead to project fizzling out due to source 2 not being ready yet, or it taking so long to get ready the project had no one that wanted to pick it back up.

I don't think their flat structure was the problem, nor did they change anything to make alyx, they just didn't expect it to take that long to get source 2 to a competent state, which is why they still have that structure at least 4 years ago (Steam account of Valve Employee for verication) , and seems to be getting along just fine, they just hit a stale point of not being able to develop anything new, and alyx was the first game that could be feasibly made.

Honestly i don't think Steam itself has many people working on it, I would reckon hardware probably takes up a large minority of the company.

 

[Nameless One]

I think they were narratively unnecessary. You spent two episodes doing what, defeating the combine presence on earth by closing the portal for good? That was already heavily implied by the ending to HL2.
They were just pumping out episodic content to generate more money and even then they didn't follow through on the third episode.
It's a footnote at this point but at the time before release it was somewhat controversial that they put out L4D2 almost immediately after L4D.
To paraphrase the meme it was all qualityslop, people only liked it because it was good and they knew it wasn't a sustainable business model so they stopped before the output worsened.

You're a fucking retard for believing in "quality slop" or whatever opinion you got from /v/.

Games were good experiences. People like good things and will pay anything for them you fucking fraud. L4d1 wasn't made redundant like most people believe because it still has aspects to it that differentiate itself from L4D2. L4d2 sold more so they remade 1 in the game with the enhancements but also changed parts of the original experience because more people play it to this day. It's just business. Also helps the zombie trend was at a golden era in gaming.

 

[Star Classic]

They also got stuck in a rigmarole of trying to simultaneously develop source 2 and games using the engine, which lead to project fizzling out due to source 2 not being ready yet, or it taking so long to get ready the project had no one that wanted to pick it back up.

This is also true.

I don't think their flat structure was the problem, nor did they change anything to make Alyx, they just didn't expect it to take that long to get source 2 to a competent state, which is why they still have that structure at least 4 years ago (Steam account of Valve Employee for verication) , and seems to be getting along just fine, they just hit a stale point of not being able to develop anything new, and Alyx was the first game that could be feasibly made.

I'd have to look in my landfill of an images folder but I recall finding something that pointed too them at the very least making some adjustments to how the company worked, I don't think Valve really works on the "desks with wheels" policy anymore, it's more "desks on a rail" (pun entirely intended)

Perhaps nothing formal or in writing was done, but given that Alyx was if I'm not mistaken the first project since like The Lab and the development of Source 2 that was very all hands on deck, it probably brought the need to be more tightknit and driven on what the team was doing.

Honestly I don't think Steam itself has many people working on it, I would reckon hardware probably takes up a large minority of the company.

Absolutely. I do think though that again even if Valve made no changes to structure, there was a company wide shift back into actually releasing products, hardware or software.

I would say though that I think it's probably been a bit skewed towards software in the past few years, given the mass hiring valve has done and the rumor of the old guard returning all point on them being put to work with HLX.

Games were good experiences. People like good things and will pay anything for them you fucking fraud. L4d1 wasn't made redundant like most people believe because it still has aspects to it that differentiate itself from L4D2.

I will add on that, and it's something I won't defend because it made L4D1 pointless later, but L4D2 did not launch with any of the L4D1 maps if I'm not mistaken. No Mercy was added as bonus with the Sacrifice I think, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the maps were added with Cold Stream in 2011-2012

I like L4D1, I think it's a fine experience on it's own and has like 1-2 things (mostly in design) that 2 doesn't have, but it is pretty redundant overall. It's hard to pick L4D1's like 3 tier 2 weapons over L4D2's 6 or so.

 

[Nameless One]

M1911 and unlimited shove. Shit you can probably mod into l4d2. Faster common infected too, which made pipe bombs very necessary and satisfying to use. I remember playing l4d1 on my cousins laptop as a kid. Bill is the best character. Dev commentary still not in l4d2, campaign events changed between games all maps are just endless hordes now, I can go on.


Valve should have just bundled L4D1 and L4d2 from the start. Maybe in an anniversary someday lmfao.

 

[Buster Scruggs]

I remember playing l4d1 on my cousins laptop as a kid. Bill is the best character. Dev commentary still not in l4d2

So you're just a retard zoomer that doesn't release the developer commentary was added with the passing update into the extras menu. I'm not gonna pull a 30+gameovers but you're acting like a tourist right now, please stop acting like a retard.

 

[Nameless One]

So you're just a retard zoomer that doesn't release the developer commentary was added with the passing update into the extras menu. I'm not gonna pull a 30+gameovers but you're acting like a tourist right now, please stop acting like a retard.

Listen here retard I was referring to the L4D1 Dev commentary absent in 2. Show me where this is.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1789183040

As far as I know only fan add-ons restore it.

 

[Buster Scruggs]

Listen here retard I was referring to the L4D1 Dev commentary absent in 2. Show me where this is.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1789183040

As far as I know only fan add-ons restore it.

You could've been more clear, retard zoomer. Why would the second game that originally contained none of the first games levels feature that first game's Development Commentary? It's completely irrelevant to the development of the second game and it's levels or characters, and doesn't make sense to feature in the second game. Still playing games on your cousin's laptop, bud? You SHOULD be upset we never got a continuation of the first game's comic which was literally the basis for Bill being the best character, and could've added so much to the second game's survivors, but it was seemingly forgotten about so they could eventually finish out the Team Fortress comics.

 

[Nameless One]

You could've been more clear, retard zoomer. Why would the second game that originally contained none of the first games levels feature that first game's Development Commentary? It's completely irrelevant to the development of the second game and it's levels or characters, and doesn't make sense to feature in the second game. Still playing games on your cousin's laptop, bud? You SHOULD be upset we never got a continuation of the first game's comic which was literally the basis for Bill being the best character, and could've added so much to the second game's survivors, but it was seemingly forgotten about so they could eventually finish out the Team Fortress comics.

I thought you knew so much about L4D2. Do you even fucking read discussion? They added the entire campaign of L4D1 to 2. They could have added the dev commentary with it too given the final content update added some extra shit.

 

[Buster Scruggs]

I thought you knew so much about L4D2. Do you even fucking read discussion? They added the entire campaign of L4D1 to 2. They could have added the dev commentary with it too given the final content update added some extra shit.

The commentary mode that got added for the second game's DLC was explicitly an extra, akin to how the Dev Commentary was considered an extra for L4D1 that was added during or near the Crash Course update. You can remaster a game's levels, while keeping the specific extras specific to that game. After all, you're the retard who said

Games were good experiences. People like good things and will pay anything for them you fucking fraud.

So why don't you just buy both games? If you want a "classic" experience play the first game, if you want the newer stuff from 2 play the second game. The workshop adds a lot to the second game, but the first game still had plenty of great mods, you just didn't get to be lazy by clicking one button on the workshop and actually had to manually find mods and install the files.

 

[Red Frida]

Or you could just watch the L4D1 commentary on YouTube. That's a complete nonissue and I'm one of the people who thinks Valve was pulling a bait and switch so I am looking for things to criticize.

 

[Star Classic]

That's a complete nonissue and I'm one of the people who thinks Valve was pulling a bait and switch so I am looking for things to criticize.

I doubt the bait and switch angle, they've gone on record the timing between the games was because L4D1 shouldn't've even existed in the first place and should've been left in the oven to be given polish and then become L4D2.

 

[Red Frida]

I doubt the bait and switch angle, they've gone on record the timing between the games was because L4D1 shouldn't've even existed in the first place and should've been left in the oven to be given polish and then become L4D2.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but how does releasing something they said shouldn't have been released not come across like a money grab?
I'm not happy about what they did but I'm not saying they poisoned a city's water supply or something, they just diluted the value of their products before giving up on creating new entries in the franchise at all, more or less.
I'm beginning to feel like it's not worth spending more effort on trying to communicate considering the scale of the issue was like $50. You don't think it was much of a problem, I felt like it was a problem, but it's just $50 and they stopped doing it after a few years.

 

[Nick Wilde]

When it comes to the whole L4D1/L4D2 thing, I think the most galling aspect was how it showed oh look, you guys CAN turn over an entire full ass game in less than a year, when you actually want to. So the whole episodes thing just looked even more retarded in hindsight.

 

[Pumpkin_Spice_Bastard]

When it comes to the whole L4D1/L4D2 thing, I think the most galling aspect was how it showed oh look, you guys CAN turn over an entire full ass game in less than a year, when you actually want to. So the whole episodes thing just looked even more retarded in hindsight.

Yes and no.
L4D is still a mp game with limited scripting and even more limited set pieces. SP games like HL2 are all about carefully crafting every event for one player only. Valve just didn't want to make SP slop simple as. Even EP1 is memorable in the way that it expands on the war torn city that was way too brief in HL2.

 

[Nick Wilde]

Yes and no.
L4D is still a mp game with limited scripting and even more limited set pieces. SP games like HL2 are all about carefully crafting every event for one player only. Valve just didn't want to make SP slop simple as. Even EP1 is memorable in the way that it expands on the war torn city that was way too brief in HL2.

I'd argue L4D2 had about as much scripting and so on as one of the episodes, when you add all the campaigns and the various dynamic events/voice lines together. It's not 6 hours of consistent scripted action, the AI Director does a lot of the heavy lifting by deciding what event activates where, but they still had to make the scripts to enable those various possibilities.

That had to be roughly an equivalent amount of work. They already had the bones of the game made for L4D1, so naturally making L4D2 will have been a faster process, but exactly the same should have been true of Ep1 and Ep2.