Ham Radio / Off-grid communication

Anti Alien Alarm said:
What's the experience like of using HAM radio to access the Internet? 9600 baud's enough to access your e-mail in a pinch out in the forests of British Colombia.
Click to expand...
Not terribly recommended.

First and foremost, email like everything else is bloated modern junk now. You'd need a little bit of software (surely doable these days) to get it down to the text then it would be a nice experience but...

Second, you'd need a way to get back to civilization, and that's an infrastructure that doesn't quite exist. Packet BBSes aren't as common as they used to be.

Third, you'd run into 'the problem' of encryption, which is a little more than a matter of grumpy hams, it's a good way to get the authorities asking what the hell you're doing.'

HamWAN as mentioned is the closest to what you're looking for.
 
There's also Winlink for basically email type stuff only. Used sometimes by people on boats long term since it works over HF.

It's a silly autistic dream of mine to someday connect my Radioshack HTX202 to a packet BBS like it's 1995. Won't ever happen. I have all the cables but the closest I'll ever get is sending APRS packets with it.
 
Anti Alien Alarm said:
What's the experience like of using HAM radio to access the Internet? 9600 baud's enough to access your e-mail in a pinch out in the forests of British Colombia.
Click to expand...
Well like Hog said there is winlink. It's not a full replacement for general email but it works well for keeping in touch with friends/family. You can't blindly email a @winlink.org email address from the internet. The winlink user has to email you first to get your email address whitelisted on their filter. Most of the HF nodes have moved to VARA and you could be out in BC and keep in touch. It's compression is pseudoencryption so it can't be easily read over the air. But other winlink users could audit messages on the website to make sure people arn't using it for business. When winlink first came out there was a massive shitstorm because most hams felt yacht owners where shitting up the bands and using it to keep in touch with their office to conduct business. Now that satphones and starlink is common that drama has died off.
2.png

hog cranking frog said:
It's a silly autistic dream of mine to someday connect my Radioshack HTX202 to a packet BBS like it's 1995.
Click to expand...
Well there is plenty of packet winlink nodes around you could use it on depending where you live.
1.png
There is also digipi and BPQ which you could use to spin up your own node/bbs.
Another thing you could do is leave your packet setup running for a few hours on each packet channel. 144.990, 145.01, 145.03, 145.05, 145.07, 145.09. Then check the "heard" log and see if you heard anything. Nodes and BBS's are normally set to beacon once or twice an hour. There are still pockets of them around. Here is a very janky map of the BPQ nodes.
 
Last edited:
Dicking around on VHF & UHF got me wondering why most modern transceivers ditched SSB on these bands. While one of the reasons to go FM-only is to cater to the technician crowd (I don't know any technician, I'm non-US), I'm not really convinced that's a smart move.

Another thing I wonder is why DSB (edit : suppressed carrier) receives no love on these bands.
 
Juan Números said:
Dicking around on VHF & UHF got me wondering why most modern transceivers ditched SSB on these bands. While one of the reasons to go FM-only is to cater to the technician crowd (I don't know any technician, I'm non-US), I'm not really convinced that's a smart move.

Another thing I wonder is why DSB (edit : suppressed carrier) receives no love on these bands.
Click to expand...
I think it's because 1: FM matches the signal fade characteristics of line of sight VHF/UHF well. It's not quite 'works or it doesn't' but it's more that way. 2: Random pulse noise the higher you go from various other sources can be a problem.

It does show up in things like moonbounce.
 
Since this thread is now under self sufficiency, I've put together this guide aimed towards preparedness and off-grid situations.
I'M RETARDED HOW DO I GET INTO RADIO? Part 1

The first question you need to ask is what your goal:
What do you want to communicate and who do you want to communicate with?

The common denominator in most situations is distance. The person or people you want to talk with could be down the road, or they could be half a country away. Distance will determine the best approach to communicate with them, and the tools and methods you use.


THE BASICS
The radio frequency (RF) spectrum is divided into several different bands. Each of these bands has different properties that make them useful for some situations, and not applicable for others.
1719961146534.png


Your WiFi router might use 5 GHz (gigahertz) while an FM Radio station might use 100 MHz (megahertz). The longer the wavelength of the signal itself, the farther it will travel. Wavelength increases the further down the spectrum you go, and decreases the further up you go.

The three most common bands used in radio communication are HF, VHF, and UHF.


VHF (30 MHz to 300 MHz) and UHF ( 300 MHz to 3 GHz ) are used for line of sight communications. The easiest way to think of this is what you can physically see is how far the signal will travel. If you're standing on top of a mountain and can see a few miles ahead of you, that is a good approximation of your working distance. If you're on the ground in a urban area, what you can see ahead of you (and in most cases, a bit more) is how far your signal will go. Most handheld radios use these VHF and UHF bands.
HF is used for long-distance communications. HF signals have unique properties that enable them to reflect off the ionosphere, which is a layer of earth's atmosphere that is electrically charged. This enables HF signals to travel across vast distances or even the entire globe. The HF spectrum is broken down into it's own bands, labelled by their wavelength in meters. 40 meters (7.0 MHz to 7.2 MHz) and 20 meters ( 14.0 MHz to 14.350 MHz) are an example of two HF bands. These bands have very different characteristics. Some bands, like 40 meters are open during the night and allow for signals to travel thousands of miles. Others like 20 meters are open during the day.

Much like earth's weather, the ionosphere has it's own weather that affects the propagation of signals on the HF bands. Band conditions are subject to change, but careful planning and techniques can overcome this and allow for reliable communications any time of the day and year.
A more in depth explanation of HF propagation can be found here

EXAMPLE SCENARIOS
Each of these scenarios assumes no infrastructure such as repeaters, and direct communication.
0 to 1 miles (0 to 1.5 km)
You and a group of friends want to communicate with eachother. Each person is no more than 1 mile (1.5 kilometers) a part.

Option 1: "Bubble pack" walkie talkies
This is the most low-tech and affordable option and will get the job done in about 80% of all cases. You can walk into a Walmart or home improvement store and should be able to find these, and if not, online retailers like Amazon or eBay sell these in packs of 4 for around $30. These use the FRS frequency range which is shared. You do not need a license to use this frequency allocation, and most bubble pack radios have channels 1 through 22 available.

Option 2: Handheld VHF/UHF transceiver
1719965134348.png

Option 1 is a VHF/UHF radio like the TYT TH-UV88. These are solid radios and have much higher quality than something like a Baofeng UV-5R. The radio comes in under $30, has a solid battery, and is compatible with programming software like CHIRP. The radio comes with the programming cable and a cheap clip on mic in the box.

Make sure you and every person in your communications plan knows how to operate the radio, and that each radio is programmed with the proper frequencies. Programming software like CHIRP lets you plug your radio in to your computer and set the frequency each channel corresponds to.

This radio is an analog radio, meaning it does not do digital modes. Everything you transmit you transmit in the clear. Anyone with a radio, or a tool like an RTL-SDR can pick up what you say.

There are many other VHF/UHF handhelds available, but this is the one I recommend. I've never had one die on me even after being thrown around in a rucksack doing backcountry hiking. The stock antenna is also decent with these HTs, compared to something like what the UV-5R clones come with.

The frequencies you chose to use will have minimal impact on the performance of the signal. Ensure that the frequency is not in use, and does not belong to emergency services.


Option 3: Digital radios for encrypted communications
The fastest, cheapest, and easiest way to do encrypted communications is with a digital radio like the TYT MD-UV390 Plus. This radio is under $150 and is a full-fledged DMR radio, and supports codeplugs for AES-128 and AES-256. For small unit communications in an electronically contested environment this may be an effective approach.

1 to 8 miles (1.5 km to 13 km)

Without repeaters or other infrastructure, direct line of sight communications at this distance with just handhelds becomes more challenging.

Option 1: A VHF mobile rig with a good antenna
Mobile VHF rigs with proper antennas such as a vertical or Yagi installed at a permanent location above the ground, or in a vehicle configuration with a vertical attached to the vehicle can likely achieve within this range.

The antenna here plays a bigger role in the distance of the signal than the radio itself. The antenna should be high above the ground, and if possible as directional as possible. Most vertical antennas (monopoles) are omnidirectional, which means that the signal is radiated close to all sides.
1719968047906.png

A Yagi antenna enables the signal to be much more directional. If you know the direction of the person you want to talk to, a Yagi is your best bet in this situation.
1719968079506.png

If the direction is unknown or changing you will want to stick with a vertical monopole.


A VHF rig I can recommend is the Yaesu FT-2980R. This rig has 80 watts of output power and is very well designed and comes in at under $200. This can be installed in your car or put in your home. It's also portable and can be brought out into the field.
1719968972291.png


Option 2: CB Radio

CB radio uses the 11 meter band which dips just below the VHF spectrum down into the HF spectrum, with the frequency range of 26.965 – 27.405MHz. CB radios have 40 channels that are authorized for unlicensed use. CB radios, either from a permanent location or a mobile location such as car / truck mounted can easily do within 2 - 3 miles, and depending on terrain and the antenna install much farther.

►Part 2 will go more in-depth with VHF / UHF communications and cover long distance HF communications
 
Last edited:
Juan Números said:
Dicking around on VHF & UHF got me wondering why most modern transceivers ditched SSB on these bands. While one of the reasons to go FM-only is to cater to the technician crowd (I don't know any technician, I'm non-US), I'm not really convinced that's a smart move.

Another thing I wonder is why DSB (edit : suppressed carrier) receives no love on these bands.
Click to expand...
The primary reason is FM radios are cheaper to make and discussing your medical issues on a repeater doesn't require efficiency. Also as mentioned above FM is less affected by certain types of noise and is more easily squelched, so makes it better for mobile operation.

All mode radios need a AB linear amplifier which are more expensive than cheap D amps FM radios use.

2m SSB is more popular than you might think as there are still a few radios that do it, like the icom 705/7100 and the FT991. The advantage of SSB over FM is >6dB improvement in spectral density versus narrow FM (the US uses wide FM which is even worse for efficiency, purely so people have slightly higher voice quality discussing their piles) and the fact SSB receivers can have a 10dB lower receiver noise floor, in effect making SSB on a simple whip antenna performing like FM through a 4+ element yagi.

My personal best contact on SSB is well over 500 miles.
 
777Flux said:
The antenna here plays a bigger role in the distance of the signal than the radio itself. The antenna should be high above the ground, and if possible as directional as possible. Most vertical antennas (monopoles) are omnidirectional, which means that the signal is radiated close to all sides.
1719968047906.png

A Yagi antenna enables the signal to be much more directional. If you know the direction of the person you want to talk to, a Yagi is your best bet in this situation.
1719968079506.png
Click to expand...
A few words of commentary on these radiation patterns, because they are not obvious for people who never saw them. The radiation pattern is three dimensional because the world we live in is three dimensional. But pictures are two dimensional. Most radiation pattern charts are a cross section of the real 3D radiation pattern. For the omindirectional antenna (the "whip", it looks like a straight piece of wire) you want the antenna to be pointing up. The antenna radiates the most in directions perpendicular to itself. On that first pattern you can consider that the antenna is aligned like the vertical axis.

Here's how the whip/monopole and dipole antenna patterns looks like in 3D. It looks more less like a doughnut with the antenna wire going through the hole. Nothing goes out in the direction of the wire, everything goes out perpendicularly:
1720003577933.png
Azimuth plane pattern is the pattern outline seen from above. It tells you which direction the antenna emits in the horizontal plane. Elevation plane patterns tells you which direction the antenna emits in the vertical plane. The maximum in the azimuth plane pattern is everywhere, and in the elevation pattern it's at zero degrees so the antenna emits the strongest in the plane that's parallel to the ground.

And here is how a Yagi directional antenna radiation pattern looks like in 3D:
1720003660818.png
With the Yagi antenna most of the energy goes out in the direction of the antenna, that is, along these small wire elements called the directors. A small part of the energy goes out the back.

These patterns also show you how sensitive the antenna is in each direction. Here's another picture for the Yagi:

1720003488031.png

Some more images for different antennas, but most of these are for higher freuqencies like microwave or GSM bands: https://www.raymaps.com/index.php/some-common-antenna-radiation-patterns/

The thing with antennas is that the frequency they operate on is inversely proportional to their size (it's proportional to the wavelength). The choice of particular antenna types for different bands is down to some being impractically huge or small for the use case.
 
It's also worth noting that a lot of the common software packages cant model HF scale antennas over a realistic ground very well, they're really only any good for antennas in (relatively) free space.
 
I've been studying for the Technician license, and I don't understand why a good bit of the questions are the way they are. I was expecting the tests to be primarily focused on rules and regulations, not about identifying components on a diagram or explaining basics of electrical engineering. Anybody who's taken it recently gotten that same impression?
 
Rent Tin said:
I've been studying for the Technician license, and I don't understand why a good bit of the questions are the way they are. I was expecting the tests to be primarily focused on rules and regulations, not about identifying components on a diagram or explaining basics of electrical engineering. Anybody who's taken it recently gotten that same impression?
Click to expand...
It's down to the technology and experimental nature of the hobby. The EMCOMM/Prepper/apocalypse element is one small corner of it and not even the most significant. It's not specifically an operators licence and you have to show knowledge for the other privileges allowed such as constructing radios, antenna design and so on.

Price you pay for having the most permissive and open access to the bands.
 
temeluchus said:
It's down to the technology and experimental nature of the hobby. The EMCOMM/Prepper/apocalypse element is one small corner of it and not even the most significant. It's not specifically an operators licence and you have to show knowledge for the other privileges allowed such as constructing radios, antenna design and so on.

Price you pay for having the most permissive and open access to the bands.
Click to expand...
Sure, but Technician is really limited in what you can access. It seems like it should have a lower barrier to entry to get people interested. As a hobby HAM is dying, they need to get new blood.
 
Rent Tin said:
Sure, but Technician is really limited in what you can access. It seems like it should have a lower barrier to entry to get people interested. As a hobby HAM is dying, they need to get new blood.
Click to expand...
That's a bit of a meme.

The numbers have been increasing steadily since a decline in the 00's, especially now you can test online and the tech licence isn't hard in the first place. It's nothing a person of extremely average intelligence can't achieve with a few hours reading.

Declines in absolute numbers are due to the hobby having an older demographic and the boomers being a larger generation than the yoots, rather than ham radio actually itself being in a terminal decline.
 
SDRs are juicing the hobby, I don't buy the doomsayers, hobby is just changing. Cheap chinese shit is lighting a fire under the big manufacturers, solar cycle is kinda decent again, covid forced clubs to go remote tests (and it stayed that way in a lot of clubs).

Sure chilling on 80m rag chewing with the boys is dying. No one has space for that kind of setup and the population isn't living in a collection of small towns anymore.
 
Rent Tin said:
I've been studying for the Technician license, and I don't understand why a good bit of the questions are the way they are. I was expecting the tests to be primarily focused on rules and regulations, not about identifying components on a diagram or explaining basics of electrical engineering. Anybody who's taken it recently gotten that same impression?
Click to expand...
Ya learning basic electronics is part of it. As well as RF and electrical safety. Dropping an antenna in to power lines, or not understanding how to ground/bond things can hurt/kill someone. And Tech's can still put 1,500 watts in to an antenna on VHF+. That can give you real burns. That can fuck your eyes up on the microwave bands. There are lots of sketchy old sweep tube amps floating around for 6 meters and 2meters that have 2kv floating around in them, those will kill you dead if you mess around in them with out precautions.
They want you to at least have some understanding of whats going on technically.

I think https://hamstudy.org/tech2022 is probably one of the best online sites for passing the test. Most of the questions have little help things that explain the question. And if you make an account it will track your practice tests and stop asking questions you keep getting right and focuses on ones you have problems with. You can just sit there on your smartphone and flashcard the question pool in your spare time and you will eventually just know the answers before you even finish reading the question. The question pool isn't that big.

If you don't care about the technical parts and just want radios to talk to your friend on a trail with nice UHF radios then you can just pay a fee and get your GMRS license. No test needed.
 
Rent Tin said:
I hope you're correct, but anecdotally I've found nobody under the age of 50 that shows any interest in radio beyond a passing "Oh that's cool".
Click to expand...
Stay off repeaters and 80m and you'll find em. But you'll have to put in the effort to get the general ticket to get the fun stuff.

HF and things like POTA, SOTA and the like have a far younger crowd. There's a YOTA camp every year, not to mention stuff like Meme Appreciation Month special events who have fun confusing OMs.

Check out Remotehamradio, they have a youth program if you are under 25.

I'm a VE and have tested thousands of people, lots of under 25s and most are under 40.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom