Hard Sci-Fi vs Medieval Fantasy? - Magic vs Theoretical Science.

[Cedric_Eff]

I love both, but TBH, hard sci-fi is such an underrated genre in the mainstream. I hate how the public at large mostly consumes unrealistic sci-fi like Star Trek: Discovery, or the other space fantasies that Hollywood has to offer.

From what I've read of hard sci-fi authors like Greg Egan and Stephen Baxter, they are relatively easy to understand, even if you don't know the exact principles of the math within them.

Also, I love that Japan has a hard sci-fi scene now, judging from the existence of this guy and his blogs. TBH, his video essays are some of the best on the web because they make no pretentions about what they are. It's just a guy talking about the science, theming, and lore of an author he loves.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nm7xerzckgw

Let Me Talk about Greg Egan #1 | Geistburg

たまにはこういう遊びもわろかりなん、と思い立って作ってみた。 ＜Let Me Talk about Greg Egan #1＞ こちらの連載記事の英語版、ということになる。 勢い余ってプレゼンテーション風スピ…

gray.ap.teacup.com

That’s why I started this discussion. People I know started discussing about how there isn’t a lot of hard sci-fi anime in recent years. It’s mostly been isekai or something else. Because of the discussion, I though I’d ask how you’d guys feel about Hard Sci-fi or fantasy.

 

[Hog On Ice]

I went with fantasy. I enjoy a good space opera more than anything else, but that’s not exactly relevant to the poll.

 

[UQ 770]

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/index.php Regarding Hard SF, I figured dropping this link would be appropriate, especially as there seems to be a contingent of aspiring writers on this website. The math calculations can be intimidating if you're missing most of your brain cells like me, but there's a wealth of articles and meditations on worldbuilding that apply equally well to fantasy as well as lots of showcases of both real and speculative spaceflight technology. Site was kind of a curse to me though and killed my ability to write Hard SF because I realized just how detached from reality most of my concepts were.

On that note:

Filling a dragon full of monster rounds from a GAU-8 Avenger > Fighting Dragons the right way.

There's not really enough of this. I'd love to see more realistic SF and real-world tech go up against scaled-up fantasy creatures. Obviously you'd have to toughen them up a bit since modern tech would shred them, kind of like how they have to give the Martians disintegrator rays and energy shields for the 1950s version of War of the Worlds. But I also love weird monster biology and meditations on fictional anatomy so I think settings like this have potential.

 

[Vampirella]

I love both, but TBH, hard sci-fi is such an underrated genre in the mainstream. I hate how the public at large mostly consumes unrealistic sci-fi like Star Trek: Discovery, or the other space fantasies that Hollywood has to offer.

From what I've read of hard sci-fi authors like Greg Egan and Stephen Baxter, they are relatively easy to understand, even if you don't know the exact principles of the math within them.

Also, I love that Japan has a hard sci-fi scene now, judging from the existence of this guy and his blogs. TBH, his video essays are some of the best on the web because they make no pretentions about what they are. It's just a guy talking about the science, theming, and lore of an author he loves.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nm7xerzckgw

Let Me Talk about Greg Egan #1 | Geistburg

たまにはこういう遊びもわろかりなん、と思い立って作ってみた。 ＜Let Me Talk about Greg Egan #1＞ こちらの連載記事の英語版、ということになる。 勢い余ってプレゼンテーション風スピ…

gray.ap.teacup.com

The same thing happens in fantasy. What's mainstream is what most people think all fantasy is like, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, and even then the movies/ tv shows are watered down considerably, (even the LOTR extended cut.)

I agree about Star Trek. It's a fun franchise, but it's all techno babble and venting plasma. Seriously, re watching ST:NG, something blows up, we're venting plasma, something's over heating, better vent plasma, the replicator made my meatloaf wrong, better vent plasma.

Even if hard sci fi can become out dated due to new discoveries that happen, it's still really fun to read because you can tell that it's grounded in something. That makes it a bit more believable to me, and like you said you don't need to understand math to understand what's going on. Good science fiction doesn't read like a text book.

 

[UQ 770]

I agree about Star Trek. It's a fun franchise, but it's all techno babble and venting plasma. Seriously, re watching ST:NG, something blows up, we're venting plasma, something's over heating, better vent plasma, the replicator made my meatloaf wrong, better vent plasma.

Even if hard sci fi can become out dated due to new discoveries that happen, it's still really fun to read because you can tell that it's grounded in something. That makes it a bit more believable to me, and like you said you don't need to understand math to understand what's going on. Good science fiction doesn't read like a text book.

I'll stick up for Star Trek in that its fallen into that rut I was talking about where Classic SF is or once was considered "Hard". TOS was shamelessly based off Forbidden Planet and frankly had it not been for the brilliance of Matt Jefferies I would wager executives would have passed on it. As it is, Jefferies himself claimed he got so bored by The Motion Picture that he fell asleep and then just never watched anything beyond it, which is an achievement since he died in like, the 1990s.

Star Trek did try to obtain more credibility by working with greats like Asimov (Data is directly based off Asimov's robot works) and seemed to want to err more on the side of Hard SF with The Motion Picture and its predecessor Phase II concept, but as time went on Roddenberry was more interested in showing us his space utopia than in producing a convincing setting. TOS actually remains pretty pessimistic in some parts even today, and I liked its portrayal of space as inherently dangerous with the Federation clearly only having a handful of extremely powerful ships that had to do everything. I really miss the early aesthetic where it felt like each Starship required whole planets worth of rare and exotic materials to run properly and thus the Enterprise had to race around and save every little colony.

 

[Vampirella]

(Data is directly based off Asimov's robot works)

I always did love Data just for that reason. And for me Star Trek is very enjoyable and has a lot of interesting ideas, even if I never did buy in to the space utopia parts. I'll admit it mostly hard core Trekies soured it for me really that's true of any hard core fans. They're always going on about the space utopia.

I really miss the early aesthetic where it felt like each Starship required whole planets worth of rare and exotic materials to run properly and thus the Enterprise had to race around and save every little colony.

That was a lot more interesting for me too, but I guess you can only do so many stories about protecting colonies and getting materials to get stuff to run on. They had a chance to do that with Voyager, but it didn't last long and that's a shame.

What do you guys think about the Outer Limits? I remember they did a lot of adaptations of a lot of classics like some of Asimov's work.

 

[UQ 770]

What do you guys think about the Outer Limits? I remember they did a lot of adaptations of a lot of classics like some of Asimov's work.

Anthology SF is obviously near and dear to my heart since they did a lot of horror-themed stuff. Outer Limits tried really hard to be more cerebral than its contemporaries like The Twilight Zone but usually failed despite having a longer run time. There are some really shit and embarassing episodes of Outer Limits though, or episodes that were well-directed and written but the special effects just looked laughable. Probably why its not as fondly remembered.

 

[Gordon Cole]

I've always been more of a sci-fi guy than a fantasy guy, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the latter every now and again.

What's the thread's thoughts on science fantasy?

 

[Recoil]

It's a different kind of kick to read good hard scifi. When done right, Hard SF fills me with a combination of horror and wonder and sometimes a not unpleasant feeling of being very small in the face of a very striking concept or chilling hypothetical. Like that manga, BLAME! That story gave me the chills, it hypnotized me with ideas that were horrifying as much as they were wonderful.

I'm not as well versed in Fantasy (don't consume as much), but when I get into some good fantasy it's a very cozy feeling, quite opposed to how alienating my favorite hard SF can be. It speaks to something human and thus enjoys a patina of familiarity and warmth. I'd go as far as to say that Fantasy fiction projects worlds within the realm of self, whereas Hard SF projects worlds that are of the [Jungian] Other.

 

[Otterly]

Golden age /amazing /astounding is my favourite. Asimov, Bradbury, poul Anderson, Harlan Ellison etc.

There was a period when I’d watch a film and think ‘that’s ripped off from...’

 

[I ain't having it]

I like soft sci-fi with fantasy elements or Fantasy with soft sci-fi . but given the choose between the two definitely medieval fantasy

 

[Slowboat to China]

If you held a gun to my head and demanded that I choose, I'd vote for medieval fantasy. Honestly, though, I think I like it best when the two genres combine. Urban fantasy and space opera (especially the old stuff, like the Barsoom series) are very near and dear to my heart.

(Unfortunately, the world of UF is in pretty dreadful shape right now ... But that's a soapbox rant for another time.)

There's not really enough of this. I'd love to see more realistic SF and real-world tech go up against scaled-up fantasy creatures. Obviously you'd have to toughen them up a bit since modern tech would shred them, kind of like how they have to give the Martians disintegrator rays and energy shields for the 1950s version of War of the Worlds. But I also love weird monster biology and meditations on fictional anatomy so I think settings like this have potential.

This. One of the things I like about UF is that it gives ordinary humans a better chance to confront and survive the OTT fantastical things of yore, thanks to modern tech and good old human know-how. In straight-up fantasy series with orcs, wizards, demons, and so on running around, the ordinary human can get lost in the shuffle. And it's always fascinating when science has to understand magic, or vice versa.

 

[nonvir_1984]

Medieval, for sure. Superstition, ravishing virgins, the odd viking, seeing off more than a few Muslims (Charles Mantel, anyone?) And the politics; and the intertwined relationships of loyalty, duty and honor. And the Art.
I would not want to live then, but a short look - see visit.

 

[Webby's Boyfriend]

I prefer space opera. My favourites are Star Wars, Babylon 5, Yoko Tsuno, Perry Rhodan, Honor Harrington and Battletech. Yet, fantasy is nice too, though I prefer the age of steam (steampunk), e.g. His Dark Materials, rather than the Medieval Ages (high fantasy), like Lord of the Rings, Narnia and Game of Thrones.

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

I prefer space opera. My favourites are Star Wars, Babylon 5, Yoko Tsuno, Perry Rhodan, Honor Harrington and Battletech. Yet, fantasy is nice too, though I prefer the age of steam (steampunk), e.g. His Dark Materials, rather than the Medieval Ages (high fantasy), like Lord of the Rings, Narnia and Game of Thrones.

People like to shit on steampunk and the like, but gears and brass and shit are tight. It's just the clothes that look dumb.

 

[dirtydeanna96]

that's true of any hard core fans. They're always going on about the space utopia.

Yeah, hard core fans of Pokemon, sperg about space utopia.

Hardcore fans of The Beatles, sperg about space utopia.

Hardcore fans of Oz, sperg about space utopia ruled by the Highly Magnified and Thoroughly Educated Wogglebug, blessed be he

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

Yeah, hard core fans of Pokemon, sperg about space utopia.

Hardcore fans of The Beatles, sperg about space utopia.

Hardcore fans of Oz, sperg about space utopia ruled by the Highly Magnified and Thoroughly Educated Wogglebug, blessed be he

All fandoms eventually turn into sperging about space utopia. It a law of nature.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I don't know where to put this but I saw a video on Earthsea. I'm not familiar with it but I remember a magazine advertisement for the tv show starring the guy that played Iceman and Isabella Rosalini.

Are the books good? Easy to follow? Don't murder me for this but do they have any.....female protagonists? *cue gasps*
I appreciate LOTR but its such a sausagefest.

 

[Gentleman Gamer]

People like to shit on steampunk and the like, but gears and brass and shit are tight. It's just the clothes that look dumb.

Spoiler: That's complete and utter horseshit

 

[usernames can change now!]

who would win

the entire Hogwarts school of witchcraft and wizardry

Or one belta boi and a spicy rock