Law Hate Speech leads to violence. Why would liberals defend it? - Free speech is gay

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...speech-violence-liberals-rightwing-extremists
Britain’s banning of three rightwing extremists has been criticised, but why not – the right to a platform isn’t absolute

‘Last Sunday Tommy Robinson, the former leader of the English Defence League, gave the speech at Speakers’ Corner that would have been delivered by one of those denied entry.’ Photograph: Steve Parkins/Rex/Shutterstock
The Home Office doesn’t often get it right – but by declining to indulge the muddled preciousness that surrounds the freedom of speech debate, it has done so. In the space of a fortnight, four extreme-right figures have been turned away at the UK border. The latest was the founder of the German far-right group Pegida. On Monday Lutz Bachmann was denied entry to the UK, and deported. He had been due to give a speech at Speakers’ Corner in London’s Hyde Park in London, but his presence was deemed “not conducive to the public good”.

1420.jpg

Founder of German far-right group Pegida denied entry to UK
Read more
Bachmann was to have addressed a “free speech” rally. It’s not clear how this was different to any other rally, other than by framing any opposition to it as censorship. Characters such as Bachmann are no innocents practising their freedom of speech: they are cynical exploiters of it. They’re little better than loiterers waiting round the corner to jump on your windshield, pretending to be hurt, shaking you down for money. It’s a scam, trading notoriety and worse for attention. Why do we fall for it?

Most freedom of speech debates now start on the false premise that denying someone a platform is censorship. So we must begin with the correct one, which is that freedom of speech is freedom from punishment. If you are not being convicted and penalised by the state for speaking, then you have freedom of speech. If just one channel of speech has been denied to you, you still have freedom of speech. We’re not talking pulping Lady Chatterley’s Lover here. The disappeared of Egypt, the jailed and flogged blasphemers of Saudi Arabia, the arbitrarily detained bloggers and journalists of China are being denied freedom of speech. It’s an insult to their ordeals that we equate them with shutting down Milo Yiannopoulos’s Twitter account. Over the past month, while travelling in north Africa, I was unable to access a host of mainstream news sites that had been blocked by national governments. That is censorship. This is not that complicated.

But it’s the “thin end of the wedge”, we’re told. If we start banning those whose views we don’t like, what next? In general, one should be suspicious of “what next?” arguments, because they assume that humans are incapable of behaving in calibrated ways that don’t inevitably lead to some future state of fascism. We could extend the right to platform and rally to all, but what next? Paedophile rallies? That’s obviously absurd, but it highlights the fact that there are limits, and they are broadly dictated by how much certain values are coded within society. The reason free speech proponents are not out there fighting to hear from child abusers or some radical Muslim clerics is because society or the law regulate the more unpalatable or illegal views away before we have to deal with them at Speakers’ Corner.

In On Liberty, John Stuart Mill, one of the great defenders of free speech, says a struggle always occurs between the competing demands of authority and liberty. He argues that we cannot have the latter without the former: “All that makes existence valuable to anyone depends on the enforcement of restraints upon the actions of other people. Some rules of conduct, therefore, must be imposed – by law in the first place, and by opinion on many things which are not fit subjects for the operation of law.”

But we’re far from that. Freedom of speech is no longer a value. It has become a loophole exploited with impunity by trolls, racists and ethnic cleansing advocates. They are aided by the group I call useful liberals – the “defend to the death your right to say it” folk. The writer Mari Uyehara calls them the “free speech grifters”, those “who flog PC culture as a singularly eminent threat to the freedom of expression”. To them, the “what next?” argument foresees apocalyptic harm that might befall liberal values. It cares much less about speech we can link to violence, or that which compromises the safety of others.


Last Sunday Tommy Robinson, the former leader of the English Defence League whose social media posts were cited repeatedly in the trial of the Finsbury Park terrorist Darren Osborne, gave the speech at Speakers’ Corner that would have been delivered by one of those denied entry – the Austrian Martin Sellner, a leader of the white supremacist group Generation Identity. Useful liberals have swallowed two freedom of speech myths whole: the redefinition of the term to encompass not only freedom from persecution but the right to a platform; and the delusion that freedom of speech is a neutral principle uncontaminated by history or social bias. There are hard choices here. Too often, those who should know better argue for the wrong ones. They fight to their deaths to defend the rights of Bachmann, Sellner and the other peddlers of hate – but not mine.
 
Plenty of what was once abhorrent views are now part our societies' core values and is better for it. We shouldn't consider ourselves to have all the answers or that we're aware of our faults, history should prove we're not.

And to reject freedom of speech would be to harm the ability of those unjustly marginalized, both current and future, to make themselves heard even if we have to endure plenty of stupid shit from those not as well. It's those that will be primarily hurt by this, not the Sellners of the world.

Regressive is such an apt moniker.

The same people who believe that racism = power + privilege also believe that power and privilege are universal, unchanging constants. Even at the height of their popularity, they still believe that they are a weak and oppressed underdog, and always will be.
 
Were there any dictators that were bluntly anti-free speech?
And by this I mean that when a dictatorship censors free speech, they make excuses that 'its bad for the nation', 'its bad for the party', 'its against the ideology', 'its heresy', etc.
These liberal college students are the only people I can think of that are plainly anti-free speech
 
Some people are just never gonna get it...

If you look at this article's title "Hate speech leads to violence. Why would liberals defend it?", you might make the mistake of thinking it actually discusses how hate speech leads to violence. But in the tradition of The Guardian publishing opinion pieces that wouldn't make it through high school English class, it makes no attempt to show this or even mention it again.

Instead the author goes off on a convoluted whine about how people are using freedom of speech wrong...

From the comments:
"Freedom of Speech is a right, but with all rights come responsibilities. And failure to adhere to those responsibilities leads to the restriction of your right. Those using Free Speech have a responsibility to use it in such a way that it does not fan the flames of hatred and division, and it seems the likes of these hate preachers and the EDL cannot adhere to this. Therefore the removal of their right is a fair and just solution."

That's like saying "You have the freedom to choose any cookie you want- What's that? You picked oatmeal raisin? That's not how to use freedom, You're going to the gulag you son of bitch."

If you take away a freedom because we're not using it right, it's not a freedom.
 
The same people who believe that racism = power + privilege also believe that power and privilege are universal, unchanging constants. Even at the height of their popularity, they still believe that they are a weak and oppressed underdog, and always will be.
This is how I know Western whites will never be considered "minorities" no matter how outnumbered they become. Facts don't matter to these people, just their narratives. Prepare for South Africa in your backyard.
 
To think the country that gave us Margaret Thatcher would degenerate into this libtard shithole. Growing old sucks.
Its funny because Thatcher used the same tactics against the IRA and what was then the Marxist far-left (They basically had to spend twenty years reforming before Corbyn got elected as Labour leader)

Far-right? Banned in UK

Muslim extremist willing to spread an ideology dedicated to throwing gays off buildings and stoning women to death for being raped? A british cup with tea and some crackers!
Muslims hide behind the Islamophobic and race card at every available opportunity to deflect people away from being able to criticise them about being a bunch of homophobic anti-Semites who let child rape gangs and drug dealers run rampant within their community while turning entire towns into ghettos as white people leave in droves (hello Bradford)
 
reminder: You can't be arrested for edgy jokes or required to have a "TV license" among other stupid retarded shit thanks to this fella.
washington.png


How many times have you waved the flag today, huh?

So when do we ban troons screaming about 'kill all cis' and sjws with their 'kill white people' stuff?

Oh, right, only some kinds of hate speech are wrong.

Hey now lets not go that far, maybe the troons and sjws got a license for that.


"I may not agree with a single word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

So long, UK users. Looks like you're going to only get worse from here on out.

You're certainly living up to your name and profile picture.
Next time you see a brit mind telling him to blow it up his ass?
 
You're certainly living up to your name and profile picture.
Next time you see a brit mind telling him to blow it up his ass?

Oh, I think I might :lol:

I still feel for those who didn't ask for this shit though. My main concern is the people who want to bring that shit here.
 
All of this, all of it, is because the United States defied the ministry of CNN and elected cheeto hitler to office, and the salty elite who believe they had their turn stolen from them want to pick out as many people as they can who don't make a proper enough show of wailing at the struggle session and say "this is what you get for not deferring to our desires". It's why the UK bans travel by people who say words they don't like, and it's why they prosecute a man who teaches a pug a stupid joke, and when they tell you anything else they are lying through their teeth because the only thing about these people that is consistent is their total lack of respect for anyone else's ability to handle the elite privileges of information and choice.
 
Some people are just never gonna get it...

If you look at this article's title "Hate speech leads to violence. Why would liberals defend it?", you might make the mistake of thinking it actually discusses how hate speech leads to violence. But in the tradition of The Guardian publishing opinion pieces that wouldn't make it through high school English class, it makes no attempt to show this or even mention it again.

Instead the author goes off on a convoluted whine about how people are using freedom of speech wrong...

From the comments:
"Freedom of Speech is a right, but with all rights come responsibilities. And failure to adhere to those responsibilities leads to the restriction of your right. Those using Free Speech have a responsibility to use it in such a way that it does not fan the flames of hatred and division, and it seems the likes of these hate preachers and the EDL cannot adhere to this. Therefore the removal of their right is a fair and just solution."

That's like saying "You have the freedom to choose any cookie you want- What's that? You picked oatmeal raisin? That's not how to use freedom, You're going to the gulag you son of bitch."

If you take away a freedom because we're not using it right, it's not a freedom.
At least most of the comments are sane. This comment was put up by the author.
 
Thatcher's governments routinely used means both legal and illegal to interfere with rights to protest, publish and free assembly. More so than is done by the May government.

Read up on the story of Helen Steel if you ever think the Thatcher government was liberal in any aspect other than economic.

That's leaving out the issues of the miners' strike, Solidarity, animal rights groups, deep cover police infiltrators, etcetera.

The UK is historically a socially liberal country, but in no way a libertarian one. It is probably the pre eminent cultural difference between the UK and the US.

It is hugely advantageous to a foreigner's understanding of UK politics and public policy to understand that about the UK.
 
My mother in law's Romanian friend lives here in the US as a teacher and is in complete agreement with this sort of stuff. I keep wanting to ask her why not move to the UK then? Afterall they don't have that pesky Constitution to get in the way.
Report her to ICE. If she's legal, somehow make it look like she isn't. We don't need this shit here.
 
  • Feels
Reactions: Technicolor_Sheep
Nah, she's a US citizen as of last year. That sort of astounds me because to become one, you think you'd learn why we hold these things so dearly. Also she hates communism because she lived in communist Romania, but then supports the policies that would help someone obtain that position i.e. curtailing freedom of speech, banning firearms, etc.
 
Back