Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


  • Total voters
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IMO, this show would be WAY more enjoyable if they had just swapped sex of key characters so all the relationships are straight.
Relationships should be a minor element of any show, unless it's an adult comedy or romcom and then I'm not interested. I guess a miniseries could get away with it, or a show that's written out from the start, but at that point you might want to read a book instead.
 
Relationships should be a minor element of any show, unless it's an adult comedy or romcom and then I'm not interested. I guess a miniseries could get away with it, or a show that's written out from the start, but at that point you might want to read a book instead.

Don't know if her turning it into a novel will make it worse or better.

Probably worse. But there's a reason why people say to read the book than the movie or show adaption of it.
 
I'm the opposite, i think Stolitz was, at worst, very unique and interesting so i can see why people fell liked it in season 1, but i dont get how they still like it in season 2.

Stolitz was a rare case of actually "realistic twosided toxic yaoi". It's two assholes exploiting one another out of "necessity" and becoming codependent. You can call that fujobait yea but at least it's not fluffy uwu boring or cruelty porn (which is saying something).

But then season 2 turned them into childhood friends, UKEfied Stolas and turned both into angsty f a g g o t s and i dont understand why people like this. Stolas was once a fun character but he's so goddamn boring now cause all he does is cry about blitzo and actively dragging this show down.

This is like how Yang x Blake from rwby got popular by accident since people liked their dynamics (energetic bimbo x sassy goth) but when writers shipped them for real, they both turned into angsty bitches and arent fun to watch anymore but the shippers already spent too many years shipping them to stop.

With Stolitz i feel its sunken cost fallacy too. It's like everyone knows Stolitz turned into a fanfic of itself but they spent too much and effort to quit now. Modern fandom are also insane because they can be fully self sustained from headcanons alone so canon doesnt even matter anymore.
I didn't hate the idea of Stolitz; starting out primarily sexual, and then they slowly start to fall in love with one another. I wouldn't like that it became less episodic, but that's just because I wanted my initial work comedy. But I could accept that turn in the show.

What I can't accept is that I'm being gaslighted into believing that they have always had feelings with one another from the start, especially on Stolas' end. Their relationship being toxic at the beginning was fine. What isn't fine is that the relationship is now trying to downplay the toxicity. And instead of writing build-up in making it healthy, they just slap a band-aid on it and pretend that's it been fixed.
 
What I can't accept is that I'm being gaslighted into believing that they have always had feelings with one another from the start, especially on Stolas' end. Their relationship being toxic at the beginning was fine. What isn't fine is that the relationship is now trying to downplay the toxicity. And instead of writing build-up in making it healthy, they just slap a band-aid on it and pretend that's it been fixed.

I agree but we're running in circles on vivzie gaslighting. The problem is that everyone with a brain said the first episode of season 1 ruined Stolitz but the shippers clapped and the writers double down. This ship is fucking doomed because it hinges entirely on a retcon to detoxify it and skips to true love without development.

Imagine if Star Wars 9 revealed that Kylo was actually Rey's childhood friend and always loved her. It would make the previous movies kinda weird in hindsight right?

Vivzie might as well triple down. Say season 1 isnt canon anymore like she did with the pilot. Retcon Stolas into pretending he never wanted sex but a friend. Make up a fake flashback of Blitzo and Stolas hanging out. If you're going to gaslight us, at least go all the way cause at least it's enterterining in absurdity.
 
Helluva Boss fans must be fucking pussies if this is on the nightmare fuel page for TVTropes

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They might as well have made HER a fallen angel while Vaggie's the princess of hell.
That's actually a perfect role reversal. It explains the character's personalities somewhat. I expect this to appear as an obscure fanfic in AO3 or Wattpad that could be gold but is squandered by teenage girl writing. Anybody up to imagine how this role reversal would look like? I am intrigued by this concept under the autistic care of KiwiFarms.

As an aside, Charlie sounds like a name befitting an angel. Vaggie... maybe change it to Victoria? Or something else, I ain't good with names. Either way whenever KF takes over the speculative writing role, it is more tolerable and entertaining to read, than Viz's rainbow vomit. Plus these writeups would break the monotony of exhaustive posts explaining why HB/HH makes no sense.
 
I always thought the name “Charlie” was weird for the character. Even a slight alteration to something like “Charlotte” would’ve made more sense for royalty.
Her full name is Charlotte, she just likes to be called Charlie. Viv has said she always wanted to name a female character Charlie but I don’t remember her exact reasoning; wanna say it was something about making a princess with a “tomboyish” name.
 
All this fanfic discussion is getting dangerously close to us making a totally ironic discord Roleplay server that we come to realize isn’t so ironic after all and I’m not sure if I’m ready for that plane of reality….
No the fuck it does not, shut the fuck up and never say that shit again. A pink triangle isn't enough for you
 
I’ve still yet to find a good Gay Relationship in media besides Sensitive Pornograph.
I unironically like Wally and Gus from Mission Hill. Probably doesn't hurt that it was made before being gay was stunning and brave, and they just depicted them like any other old married couple.
 
Every time I think I'm out this thread pulls me back in...

OKAY! That dynamic almost writes itself, really. Having Charlie fall from Heaven doing something morally ambiguous or wrong for the right reasons, maybe falling in love with a mortal and breaking the impartiality of Heaven to save them from their own sin for a classical example, then having Vaggie take her on as as an assistant or some other menial position within eyeshot after taking one look at Charlie and concluding, “This girl is going to get eaten alive.”

Vaggie’s reason for this could be from a place of pity, leveraging the situation as a way to piss of Lucifer because I don’t see how a child of Lucifer wouldn’t have daddy issues, or perhaps because having a Fallen Angel in your back pocket whose loyalty is completely secured by just being somewhat nice to her (something rare in Hell) is a smoking deal. A combination of all three? Maybe. Or many, many other possibilities.

The two wouldn’t even necessarily need to be in or get into a relationship with each other: Vaggie progressing from boss to mentor and then best friend as she helps Charlie navigate suddenly having full autonomy and grappling with vices without a divine ability to ignore temptation would organically generate comedy and tragedy in equal measure. Meanwhile Charlie would inspire Vaggie to have an open hand for her allies in the main cast and to reserve the closed fist for enemies because being pleasant isn't the same as being naive, something, something, Machiavelli quote goes here. A romance could form from that or it could stay a close friendship and it would still work.

Rework the hotel concept to be the upscale cream of the crop hotel for demon nobility (and angel emissaries) visiting Lucifer at the capital of Hell, which Vaggie was put in charge of as Princess of Hell and wherein the rest of the main cast works as guards or staff, then you’ve got the setting for the story with a literal revolving door of side characters to generate scenarios. So many characters work in this setup. Angel, Husk, and maybe Charlie later on as the mafioso type guards answering directly to Vaggie, Nifty being one of the maids, Alastor as the head of staff, and then Vaggie as the hostess running the show.

A dash here of showing how unfair and absolutely vile a realm where abuse of literally every kind is socially accepted so long as you have power, pepper some little shreds of redemption in how the main cast treats and interact with each other there (except Alastor who would serve as the sick bastard who likes it in hell), and then tie it all together with an undercurrent background theme of praying for a redemption you cannot and will never know how close or far you’re from embodied in Charlie’s struggles to fit in and survive while the blood soaked intrigue of Vaggie quite literally carving her place into demon high society takes up the foreground.

Voila. Narrative harmony between characters, plot, and setting.
 
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