Cave Fisher
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2021
Why IS Velvette apart of their team, anyway? Fuck does she do other than browse Tiktok?
Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread
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That's it, my guy. Her entire personality is just owning a clothing brand, annoying Vox, being a zoomer, and browsing TikTok. She has no other purpose other than well, ""helping"" Vox with his tech business and always asking him to deal with Valentino whenever he has a mental breakdown.
Oh wait, she's good at sniffing people out apparently after suspecting Carmilla being the sinner who killed one of the Exterminators prior to the "surprising" revelation. No wonder why she acts like she's the biggest elephant in the room.
Honestly, you can kind of add this to most of the Overlords. There's no real demonstration of how much of an influence they really have over the Pride Ring. Though, for Vox, since he owns VoxTex, which is an app that's always on everyone's Hellphones - both sinners and hellborn - he's kind of the only Overlord I feel actually upholds such a status. We KNOW what Valentino does, but there's no real demonstration of it other than knowing he just shoots porn films.
With... just Angel Dust.
And no one else.
Angel Dust shouldn't be his only money maker, right? It just don't add up! If he's the supposed ruler of the porn industry, why not actually showcase him influencing or even controlling the strip clubs or adult clubs of Hell? Why not showcase him putting up these demanding rules and mandatory MUST-DO's for anyone who wishes to be apart of the industry?
Same goes for Velvette, do we even see anyone using her clothing brand? How does her clothing brand and fashion actually influence Hell? Is not being an Overlord more than just a "we're really powerful" status? Though, from further research, it's kind of no different than being the manager of a company - except in Hell.
BUT AGAIN, WHERE'S THE REAL DEMONSTRATION OF THAT? All these Overlords just seem more of sinners who just got into the "Top Dog" ranks instead of being sinners who fought, killed, swindled, whatever there way into taking over a certain kind of "industry" in Hell and making the sinners suck up through their demands of just relying on THEIR industry and no one else.
Makes these guys feel a lot less intimidating if all they can show about being an Overlord is being strong or having abilities powerful than most sinners. When I think of Overlord, I wanna think "multi-million dollar corporate entity who doesn't care about the people for one second and only will care if their profits are affected" kind of Overlord, not the "we have big toothy grins and oh we kind of take over this portion of hell fear us lol" kind.
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- Dec 28, 2014
Because not thinking things through. I'd guess AD is in fact his biggest star, though, just from the (lol non-canon) pilot where it's big news that he joins in on some regional civil war.
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- Apr 14, 2018
Based on her song, it seems she’s just a glorified social media manager
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- Oct 22, 2021
Stolas was better in the pilot than the actual series where it seemed like he was originally intended as an antagonist.
As a rule of thumb if anyone can edit your wiki it's gonna suck ass.
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- Aug 24, 2018
There's also this feeling that most the characters in HH are super young. Again, it's mostly a case of just not thinking things through but all the Vees act like young adults. If the Vees have only been in power for, I dunno, ten years or something, that's not even a snap compared to the reality of how long Hell should've been around. There's no way that Angel Dust would be Valentino's top performer if they've been "overlords" for a longer amount of time, which would imply that the Vees are just young upstarts who showed up and started saying "Hey this place is like diet Gotham and we got gimmicks fuckin' pay attention" or something.
Like who cares. You have a tech guy, a social media manager and a pimp. Who actually cares, especially if there's an overpopulation issue in Hell. There are, what, hundreds of thousands of porn addicts/prostitutes? Hundreds of thousands of young tiktok-adjacent idiots who've an heroed because their fee-fees got hurt and suicide's a big no-no? So you got three nobodies who think they actually matter?
(if this is late, give me clocks but to be fair it's really difficult to keep up with everything that's already been said or mused on in this thread)
Like who cares. You have a tech guy, a social media manager and a pimp. Who actually cares, especially if there's an overpopulation issue in Hell. There are, what, hundreds of thousands of porn addicts/prostitutes? Hundreds of thousands of young tiktok-adjacent idiots who've an heroed because their fee-fees got hurt and suicide's a big no-no? So you got three nobodies who think they actually matter?
(if this is late, give me clocks but to be fair it's really difficult to keep up with everything that's already been said or mused on in this thread)
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Cave Fisher
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 11, 2021
The Vees have so little of a powerful presence mainly because they care WAY too much about dumb shit the same way a particularly popular high school clique would. Valentino logistically has to have TONS of nameless, faceless, eyesore prostitutes that he can use and kill at a moment's notice. Angel Dust telling him to fuck off shouldn't have prompt any higher reaction than "Huh, alright, guess I need a new number one while you OD for all eternity."
The porn industry and prostitution on earth is already pretty fucked, it should be several times worse in hell, but Viv doesn't know how to intentionally write sexual exploitation that's more complicated than Angel Dust singing while crying and sucking cock, and then next episode he's fixed offscreen. With the obvious horniness for Loona from the fans that even HB acknowledges, as well as the implied huge age Valentino he should have as an overlord, it'd make sense for him to buy out entire pounds that house Hellhounds, keep them in the pride ring, and make sure they have very little option but to work for him. But he just sits around jacking off, abusing Angel, and licking Charlie that one time which would probably get the whole building killed if she wasn't a sheltered wuss.
Also, for Vox, they could have made him basically google with all the lack of humanity that entails. In the Alastor comic, he immediately shows up to try and taunt him when Alastor starts talking shit, so he could have had eyes and ears all over hell, and it would explain why he hates Alastor, because he can't get any intel on someone who doesn't fuck with modern technology or its addictive properties. but he's just another angry gay boy that hates the protagonists because Alastor doesn't wanna fuck him.
Velvette, I don't have a single damn idea for. Her social media thing could be done by Vox, and we don't once see a character wearing her brand of clothing. She looks and acts like she fell in hell a week ago.
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Resident Knievel
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 12, 2023
Nice try offscreen demon
Actually if any of you can find any more of these Fraudastor images post them these things are awesome lmao
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- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
Just turn off your brain and enjoy the show. Just don't think about it. Just consume media. This is how entertainment is supposed to be now and we must all accept it. Shit on capitalism while also...participating in capitalism....just don't think about it.
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- Aug 24, 2018
I can't, I'm too busy coping and seething that this is getting a second season while Scavengers Reign got cancelled
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- Dec 28, 2014
I'm pissed we haven't had a real Baxter apperance.
I actually liked the Stolas in Loo-Loo Land. He was retarded but actually seemed to care. Unfortunately, Octavia's assessment of him as a creep who did nothing but flirt with a weird red dickhead was pretty much accurate.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2024
That's one of the more "major" glaring issues I have with the show and how it presents the characters.
THEY DON'T ACT THEIR AGE.
Velvette, I can understand since she's the youngest Overlord so I'm assuming she died in her 20s, but for Valentino and Vox, who're supposed to be near middle aged dudes? They act like they're the same age as Velvette! They have the dang emotional maturity of one. Angel Dust, despite being in his mid-30s, act like he's in his early-20s. These characters don't act like they've been through the worst of what Hell offers. They don't look like sinners who are experienced with Hell, its inhabitants, and what to expect. They all look like they've only been there for a few years. We've seen how Hell looks in the show. Despite being sanitized like a 4kids censorship market, I'm betting it's a lot worse than this. Stuff like that SHOULD take a toll on a bunch of Overlords prior to their rise.
They've seen the worst of the worst, and thus, learned to adapt to the worst and make the most of it. Like you said, we don't know how long they've been there. Velvette, I'm assuming a few years, but for Vox and Valentino, it should be decades. Hell should've affected them much worse than how they were before their deaths. But, no, they all look and act as if they've JUST recently became the Top Dogs of Hell. And knowing Hell's population, there's no way they can just kickstart their way to the top that easily.
Being an Overlord is like being the next multi-million dollar corporate company who explodes the carbon emission rates. It's not easy to achieve, so drastic measures must be taken, and that's a lot of unethical and borderline illegal stuff.
These guys are no different than your uptight managers at a Walmart. Absolutely inexcusable worldbuilding, man. Another one of the things that seem interesting on paper and execution but once dwelled into more, you realize how once again, Viv poorly thinks out about them and don't work with them in a way that makes sense.
Oh, it should. I've watched countless documentaries regarding human trafficking and general sexual exploitation (thanks old VICE), and it still hurts every time I had to remember the bodycam recordings of the unfortunate individuals put into something they never wanted to be a part of. Hearing their cries and knowing most of the affected are children just... ugh, it's hard to imagine and being part of a prostitution or human trafficking ring are things I'd never wish on my worst enemy.
Viv could've made great commentary on the pains of sexual exploitation and how one little mistake or talk with someone you feel trustworthy with can lead into a really dark rabbit hole. Because this isn't general human trafficking we're talking about, we're talking about adult trafficking. Adult prostitution. There should've been a lot more than just Angel Dust to explore. Angel Dust isn't the only victim of Valentino's grip. Valentino doesn't even look nor act like an Overlord. He just looks like a guy who so happens to run a porn studio and Angel Dust's his only star worker for some reason. He shouldn't care who he gets as long as they make him money if he can promise they'll get fame in the process. Angel Dust should only be an afterthought to him.
Plus, if he's the most famous porn star, why don't we actually see any of it being showcased? Where are the rabid fans? The sinners and gooners desperate to get their grubby little hands on him? The ones literally willing to kill and exploit others themselves just to get to Angel Dust? There's no showcase of that. We're just told "he's popular" and nothing else. Nothing is explained. Everything is told but not shown. But, nah, Viv's too much of a wuss to do that. She's already controversial enough. She'll get canned by SA victims left and right (sa victims eating their own, much included). No wonder she had to be so limiting with this cartoony Latino villain.
Oh, there is. She's just meant to be a character for people to ship Vox with. That's it. She's all hip with the times and junk, so she's everyone's fan favorite.
Exactly, they're whining about meaningless things and not caring about well, their status in Hell. Valentino did bring up during the oh so triggering SA scene that "he's killed countless [female dogs] who talked back to him" (I know I butchered that, but I'm too lazy to check the scene, just woke up), so does this imply he's killed a majority of his workers and now Angel Dust's... the only one left? I don't buy that. I don't buy that one bit. There are possibly billions of sinners in the Pride Ring. BILLIONS. Something that Valentino should know himself. He shouldn't have to worry about "losing his favorite stars" because he can just get ANOTHER ONE at a moment's whim. He could even hire a sinner to recruit prostitutes or people desperate to find work.
Valentino is literally no different from Mammon.
- Does whatever to keep their most popular star in check.
- Physically and emotionally manipulative to them by bringing up how they're the reason they've reached the amount of popularity they have today.
- Both act like manchildren when their star mildly claps back at them, not once thinking about how such intimidation tactics should hardly affect them.
At least Mammon actually did feel like a villain in some cases. Valentino was a mix of cartoony, stupid, and serious when the plot needs him to be. It's no wonder why the SA scene did not affect me at all. I wasn't uncomfortable, I was just raising my eyebrow because a few episodes ago he was just this stupid dude merely being played for comedic effect, and now we're suppose to take him seriously? Tone inconsistency, man.
Valentino should've just shrugged and looked at Angel Dust unfazed when he tried to clap back. I feel that would've been a bit more impactful and showcases that he's gotten such remarks thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of times. To him, it should be a playground insult, not an insult that'll get him wanting to SA the dude again.
It's no wonder why they're all emotionally immature. No one should actually care but the show tells us that everyone (offscreen) does apparently. They have bigger things to worry about than what some rando sinners have to say.
Never. My complaining juice has yet to even be halfway empty.
Nah, not really. Once you connect his actions in the later episodes/seasons, you just kind of realize he only cares when he's told to care. Noticed how he completely disregarded his daughter's worries and feelings in S1:E2 cause he wanted to keep flirting with the cause of his whole family's downfall? Notice how he does the same in S2:E2? He forgets everything like nothing happened. He cares for a little bit, maybe even feel a bit bad, but as you can see in S2:E4 and S2:E8, he does not. Again, not once he thinks of his daughter.
Not once he worries or thinks about in S2:E4 about how his daughter will feel if she lost her father, how it would affect her. Nope, he thinks of BLITZY.
Not once he worries or thinks about in S2:E8 about actually trying to make things right for his family, for his daughter. Caring more about individuals other than himself. Nope. Doesn't even bring her up once. The whole song just yaps about how he'll die alone if he doesn't pressure Blitzo into being his sex toy for eternity.
All what Stolas can give is what Octavia said, a creep who does nothing but flirt and care about an imp he barely knows anything about and disregards everyone else's emotions until it actually becomes a problem, like a corporate entity who pretends to care about their customers once their profits start dwindling after mass protests ensue.
Same, that goes with Arackniss, too. Bet they'll only have a few seconds of screentime in the second season. Maybe say a sentence and that's it. Though, Baxter is a part of the Vees in the official series (S1:E2 showed him in Vox's tower), so we actually get more of this dude since he has connections with the apparent primary antagonists of the next season. For Arackniss, however... I don't see much of him being used other than maybe being an exposition device/dump.
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- Aug 2, 2021
S2E8 of HH felt like viz telling us "see, I didn't forget about this stupic cerub/dorks, now let me finish my melodrama in peace!"
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- Aug 1, 2022
Can't reply to @didelphigina comment, but them bringing up that Valentino said he has killed countless bitches for less...did he actually say that in the episode? Because...how is that exactly a threat if you can't be killed in Hell without an angelic weapon? You just come back to life. I know it's probably not the most lovely experience to deal with...and I'm not exactly sure if you just regenerate back to your original form with no lasting marks...but even so, after the few hundred of times you end up dead, I figured you would just become numb to it all. Wouldn't it work better to threaten the soul? That would actually have long-lasting effects...I think.
I shouldn't even be trying to figure out the logic on how this world works. Viv just wants to do coffee shop aus with her ocs she has had since she was a late teen. She obviously doesn't care to work out the intricate details, or keep consistent with her lore; so why should I care.
I shouldn't even be trying to figure out the logic on how this world works. Viv just wants to do coffee shop aus with her ocs she has had since she was a late teen. She obviously doesn't care to work out the intricate details, or keep consistent with her lore; so why should I care.
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- Jul 22, 2015
@didelphigina it is beyond me why people like yourself insist on getting so involved in shit you don't even like.
In regards to characterisation etc, it might be worth keeping in mind that sinners don't age, and they can only die permanently if an angel gets to them. Sinners may gather knowledge and experience during their time in Hell, but they don't get older, meaning that they don't get wiser. The native citizens of Hell age and die, but sinners are the same forever. Angel Dust entered Hell as a twenty year old, and he's still twenty years old, just as the child sinners in Cannibal Town are still children. If you've ever spoken to a certified child genius, you may get the impression that you're talking to a miniature adult, but ultimately this is false... you're talking to a kid. A smart kid, but still a kid.
The Vs really need more character development, but I do think that Velvette's contribution is underestimated. While the immediate impression of her is of a Bratz doll- which I doubt is unintended- she is a marketer, a social manager, ahuman demon resources manager, a brand manager and a public relations manager. She's the one who determines what's going to sell, how best to manipulate others and public opinion. Vox and Valentino can also do this, but she's tapped into these things on the next level. Maybe you don't find Velvette all that impressive, but to a socially retarded autist she is fucking terrifying, even more than Vox or Valentino.
Also, in regards to this:
I'm really not sure how to wrap my head around your ranting. On the one hand you're complaining how unrealistic and inconsistent and simplistic the Hazbin universe is... while at the same time not quite grasping that almost every sinner in Hell is going to be some flavour of Cluster B nutjob. Lucifer himself says that in ten thousand years, Sir Pentious is the only sinner who has fundamentally changed his personality- his soul- in all that time.
As an added aside, the "Rule of Funny" trope is another huge influence in the Hazbin universe. Sometimes a joke is just entertainment, and isn't meant to be a profound observation.
Somehow you are both way too involved in the whole media series and not enough. It's got me puzzled how you've managed this.
In regards to characterisation etc, it might be worth keeping in mind that sinners don't age, and they can only die permanently if an angel gets to them. Sinners may gather knowledge and experience during their time in Hell, but they don't get older, meaning that they don't get wiser. The native citizens of Hell age and die, but sinners are the same forever. Angel Dust entered Hell as a twenty year old, and he's still twenty years old, just as the child sinners in Cannibal Town are still children. If you've ever spoken to a certified child genius, you may get the impression that you're talking to a miniature adult, but ultimately this is false... you're talking to a kid. A smart kid, but still a kid.
The Vs really need more character development, but I do think that Velvette's contribution is underestimated. While the immediate impression of her is of a Bratz doll- which I doubt is unintended- she is a marketer, a social manager, a
Also, in regards to this:
Have you ever met a full blown narcissist? They don't like hearing the word "no", and they certainly don't like their favourite toys trying to leave of their own accord. Valentino has made a profitable business out of being a sexual predator... but he's still a sexual predator.
I'm really not sure how to wrap my head around your ranting. On the one hand you're complaining how unrealistic and inconsistent and simplistic the Hazbin universe is... while at the same time not quite grasping that almost every sinner in Hell is going to be some flavour of Cluster B nutjob. Lucifer himself says that in ten thousand years, Sir Pentious is the only sinner who has fundamentally changed his personality- his soul- in all that time.
As an added aside, the "Rule of Funny" trope is another huge influence in the Hazbin universe. Sometimes a joke is just entertainment, and isn't meant to be a profound observation.
Somehow you are both way too involved in the whole media series and not enough. It's got me puzzled how you've managed this.
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- Apr 2, 2023
Because there's a part of it they do like, or they believe it can be better. I played Dragon Age 2 even though it was mid, and Inquisition even though I fucking hated it, all because it was a setting that I liked.
All that being said @didelphigina WEW LAD THAT TEXT WALL.
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- Apr 14, 2018
I mean it is fine to heavily criticize something if you once liked it. Not going to go over the rest of your post since there are a few things I agree with.
But generally when someone goes deep into criticizing something, part of it is being a former fan who knows that some things can be done better
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- Apr 6, 2024
I admit, I do tend to overreact about my criticisms towards this show. But I also kind of still like it, even under all the text walls I may constantly do here in this thread. I'm immersed with the worldbuilding, but I'm upset with how much potential it lost or just isn't out there. I'm immersed with some of the characters but I hate how some of them been retconned or to satisfy the audience's fantasies. I'm immersed with the premise but we all know how we felt about that. Though, I noticed I have done long walls of text over miniscule things most people don't really care about. That's something I admit I do feel bad for doing.
Plus, I haven't really critiqued anything this openly in my life, so getting that chance without the fear of getting reprimanded for it kind of made me have a bit too much fun analyzing things. I sperged if you will.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing a show you either don't like, feel you've lost interest with, or is still huffing under that hopium that the show will get better. But I do understand I can be excessive with how I do such critiques that has led to me repeating or not being fully understanding of the matters and characters I talk about. I'll lower what I say in the future and do better with some of the things I tend to gloss over or not focus on much in the show, as you explained some good counterarguments (the narcissist argument I realized I did not properly understand well which led me to giving some baseless conclusions especially made me think out some things).
In short, please be patient with me, I have autism™.
I have no idea either. Things just happened.
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- Aug 5, 2019
Don't think it, don't say it,
Don't think it, don't say it...
Oh well, fuck.
Now I started to think about how hell itself is being presented in the series. Why ARE there buildings, streets, restaurants, mansions, shops, and other infrastructure in hell? Who built these? The city itself frequently gets destroyed by either demon shenanigans or angels during extermination day. So who rebuilds everything after it has been destroyed? Are there construction companies in hell? Where did they get the materials to build shit? From what I've seen, there isn't much variety in raw goods. Is the show implying that there is some kind of trade system between rings? I've seen Imps farming in the wrath ring, so is the surplus being shipped to the other rings for profit?
And why does hell itself have a fucking functional police force and prison system? Isn't hell punishment already? That would imply there are.. WRITTEN LAWS in hell, which, if you break and get caught, you get thrown into the slammer. I've also seen that hell has electricity, running water, and waste disposal. So, where do these basic public utilities and services come from, and do they keep up with the demand? There are supposedly billions of sinners in the pride ring, and that's a lot of demand to accommodate. What about electronics? How does Vox manufacture and distribute them to hell's citizens? (To all the other rings as well, not just the pride ring, mind you!) And... You get the idea by now.
If you think that I'm looking into this too much, maybe you're right. But then again, Viv began this discussion with the overpopulation bullshit, so it made me think about other related societal issues. She should've fleshed out the entire world and its systems first. But no, she decided to make the characters first and then drop them into a world that I can only describe as 'LA but in hell'. The entire world falls apart if you think about it for more than a minute.
In my opinion, this world could've worked if only she had given more thought and care to the series. Having trade between the various rings would've been an interesting concept to use as an example. It could've implied that the pride ring is solely dependent on the other rings to accommodate their basic needs. She could've created a world that works logically, is interesting, and is original. But who am I kidding, we're talking about Vivziepop here lol, lmao.
[^Also first effort post on my part, please be patient]
Whoops, think I did the same here lmao
Also in my opinion I like what you say, I like people who show passion about something
This is the guy you're batting for.
Least obsessed faggot ever.
Least obsessed faggot ever.
Banter aside, here's what I have:
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- Apr 6, 2024
Nah, wait, you're onto something. That could be an interesting vulnerability for the Overlords. Powerful but are still very dependent on other rings because those rings are the reason they were able to get the essential tools to get into power in the first place. Makes me think of the Deadly Sins taking advantage of the Overlords and keeping them in their place. Reminding them they're not as intimidating as they thought they were as they [the Deadly Sins] remind the sinners that without them, they would be nothing. How one bad disagreement or trade offer could prove either fatal for the Overlords or for the overall Pride Ring.
Could work well for an AU story, honestly.