Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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Gonna sperg a bit because it's been bugging me forever and I need to get it out of my system.

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Vivz cannot draw faces. She's been at it for years and has never shaken her chronic same-face syndrome. Anime is horrendous for this, but it's anime so whatever. Her style is very much western therefore there's no excuse to be stuck on exactly the same proportions for literally every character that have eyes and a mouth when you can have exaggerated variety such a style allows.

Look, I drew one of her characters!
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Which one? Could be any fuken one and you wouldn't know unless it's slapped on a silhouette.:roll:
All of the character designs have either have one or two BIG problems with them that are distracting or stand out, or they are a complete mess in terms of color and overall.

I'll just do Helluva Boss for brevity's sake.

-Blitzo: The gloves and boots make no fucking sense at all. Boots on an imp that seem to have hooves as a lower extremity would be impractical and uncomfortable. Hooves can endure most terrains with no problem. The gloves have an eye(?) piece on them that stands out and look extremely distracting from the rest of the model and it would be better to just give him cuffs and sleeves than those ugly looking gloves which also make no sense at all in a practical sense.

-Moxxie: I don't really have much to save about him. You could probably erase those weird freckle marks on his face and I guarantee you no one would know the difference.

-Millie: Again, no real complaints about her, but I really hate her eyeliner. It makes her look like a bratz doll and it just makes an otherwise inoffensive design look very odd and off putting.

Stolas: I didn't hate this design at first (except for the top hat which looks ugly as shit and clashes with how stolas is supposed to look in the biblical canon) but there was also something off about his face that I couldn't shake. That was until I saw this redesign of him from some sped on youtube (sorry about the spergy background, the person who drew this is a total cunt)
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Then I realized why he looks so off; his blank red fucking eyes. They make his model look very unexpressive and the lack of irises make it difficult to tell what he's focusing on. He also apparently has two sets of eyes as well which I didn't notice until I compared the two designs and now I can't unsee it and it makes the model look worse.

Stella: Holy shit this design is a mess. I could write a novel about why this design looks really fucking ugly, but I don't think I need to given that it's been said enough in this thread.

Loona: Unfortunately this is the best design that Vivienne came up with. However the lack of any kind of definition of her breasts (it's really hard for me to articulate this without sounding like a pervert sorry) is very distracting and makes her look unintentionally underage. She's supposed to be a 23(?) year old in the canon, but often times I mistake her as a teenager because she lacks defined feminine traits in her design which makes her at best look way too young, or at worst, sometimes a tranny. Otherwise, if you were to just draw those on her, it would fix those problems right up.

That's all I can think of for now. I wrote this in a rush, but I might update if I have any further insight.
 
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She's supposed to be a 23(?) year old in the canon, but often times I mistake her as a teenager
Loona's weird because she's canonically in her twenties but everything about her writing and design has all the hallmarks of the standard "angsty teen daughter"-type character, I think Moxxie points out how weird it is Blitzo treats her like a troubled teenager exactly once in the pilot, then never again.
 
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Then I realized why he looks so off; his blank red fucking eyes. They make his model look very unexpressive and the lack of irises make it difficult to tell what he's focusing on.
I love monochromatic eyes but they should be on a character who is inhuman and inexpressive or animalistic, the opposite of Stolas.
 
Millie: Again, no real complaints about her, but I really hate her eyeliner. It makes her look like a bratz doll and it just makes an otherwise inoffensive design look very odd and off putting.
Also, get rid of the black heart tattoo on her shoulder. It adds to the Bratz doll comparison.
 
Also, get rid of the black heart tattoo on her shoulder. It adds to the Bratz doll comparison.
I think Millie and Loona kind of clash with the overall aesthetic of the main cast. Blitz, Moxxie, Stolas and Stella all wear quite formal and regal suits while Millie, Octavia and Loona wear.... modern clothing.

This is also something Vivz struggles with, consistent attire aesthetics. One side you have her suits and dresses, right next to.... tees and jeans. It makes the whole thing kind of jarring.

I mean, Millie having an "open-shoulder" shirt with ripped tights and Loona having a crop top and shorts always got under my skin.

Hey where's that guy that did Hazbin Overlord redesigns? We need him here again!
 
I think Millie and Loona kind of clash with the overall aesthetic of the main cast. Blitz, Moxxie, Stolas and Stella all wear quite formal and regal suits while Millie, Octavia and Loona wear.... modern clothing.
I agree on clashes, not on attire, but that Loona is just a standard furry in a cast of characters who, while at least semi-furry, are at least not the generic kind of furry that Loona is.

I get the idea of fanservice, but Loona is a really obvious example. I think it would be better if she looked more demonic like almost everyone else does. The "look at me, I'm the furry fapbait" is annoying.
 
sir pentious redesign.png

Another redesign I did, this time of Sir Pentious. Tried making him a little more burly and giving him a thick snake neck, as well as making it more victorian with a tall starched collar and Inverness cloak which also gives a more unique silhouette. Waistcoat has an appropriately steampunk-inventor vibe to it.
 
More possible insider info dropped. There's no proof this isn't some bored anon on Tumblr, but the person they're posting this to (Chaifootsteps) has generally seemed pretty reliable when it comes to leaks, so I thought I'd leave this here.
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It explains the 2 season thing and why the fuck Husk looked so out of character in that one clip of him (Possession being in Charlie's powerset wasn't really expected)
I'm not sure I believe the thing about the meeting considering the board had a picture of an exterminator.
And the shit Viv says about Alastor and his level of strength is so inconsistent that him being stronger than Lucifer isn't even a surprise anymore, and it explains just whyyy he didn't get killed on the spot by shaking the devil's staff like that.
The thing about Lilith is all but confirmed by leaked audition doc for Lucifer.
>Lilith is Stella 2.0
Naturally. All women are either coombait, one dimensional support characters or turbo bitches
>Vaggie dies (?)
Related to the above, the only female character that can look good is her self insert. Everyone else? Fuck 'em.
>tumblr sexyman is the most powerful being in hell, even more so than the ruler of hell
Demon husbando über alles
>rushed out of spite
Fucking lmao I almost want to hate watch this.
 
I think Millie and Loona kind of clash with the overall aesthetic of the main cast. Blitz, Moxxie, Stolas and Stella all wear quite formal and regal suits while Millie, Octavia and Loona wear.... modern clothing.

This is also something Vivz struggles with, consistent attire aesthetics. One side you have her suits and dresses, right next to.... tees and jeans. It makes the whole thing kind of jarring.

I mean, Millie having an "open-shoulder" shirt with ripped tights and Loona having a crop top and shorts always got under my skin.

Hey where's that guy that did Hazbin Overlord redesigns? We need him here again!
im flattered, but I feel like it makes some sense. Blitzo clearly doesn't run a tight ship and definitely not the type to care about dress codes.
He wears a suit* because, well, he's the boss. Moxxie wears a suit because he's a stuffy opera nerd. Honestly, I feel like forcing a dress code would make it harder to read these characters and get a sense for what they're about, which is the main point of character design.
I tried tho, but only as a quick doodle and I forget how to draw dese bitches
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*Its not even a "suit-suit" anyway, its more like a teddy-boy coat and cowboy boots, which makes me want to believe following his obvious western theme that the little skull thing he wears in place of a tie is a bolo tie

snoot show blitzo.PNG
snoot show blitzo COAT.PNG

w3rw4r.png@Dave. I one time did a redesign concept for blitzo in some hypothetical "snoot game" version of Helluva Boss, which makes the "western" theme more obvious, with a western "Hollywood suit", a bolo tie, cowboy boots, and an edgy-as-fuck Milsurp coat. He owns a musket for self defense and is a massive nerd about that era of firearms and warfare. Also, Full Norwood with a Mullet to drive home the sleaze.

snoot show moxxie maybe.pngAlso bonus moxxie design inspired by Niles Crane
 
Loona's weird because she's canonically in her twenties but everything about her writing and design has all the hallmarks of the standard "angsty teen daughter"-type character, I think Moxxie points out how weird it is Blitzo treats her like a troubled teenager exactly once in the pilot, then never again.

Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss both remind me of some shit me and my fujioshi friends from the high school anime club would come up with. Thats probably why it comes off as painfully juvinile, like something you'd find in Hot Topic next to the Invader Zim merch. Every teenage girl in the 2010's who knew how to pick up a pencil and draw was cherning out OCs like these. Vivzie was just lucky enough to have the means to enter the industry.
That pretty much sums up everything wrong vivzie, her body of work and to some extent the series fanbase and indeed a lot as a whole. Vivzie herself is turning 31 this one month yet is still acting and thinking like some 16byear old who only pays attention I. Art class and spends the few practical classes she takes doodling in her notebook.
 
I volunteer as the poor soul paid 60usd per second to animate it. If they'll give me permission to sketch them in the show's style.

We've got something fun going on in this thread.
There exists AI models of the casts that we can use.

WE CAN MAKE SNOOT GAME FOR HELLUVA
 
If we made @JokahBaybee start hand drawing the entirety of Hazbin Hotel tonight, the show would come out faster than us waiting for Viv.
I volunteer as the poor soul paid 60usd per second to animate it. If they'll give me permission to sketch them in the show's style.

We've got something fun going on in this thread.
We can make our own version of snoot game at this point. (What 4chan did with Goodbye Volcano High) Call it something like Spoder Show.

Anyhow, as someone who talks the talk about how much I can't stand Stolitz, I figure I would walk the walk and try my hand at fixing this fucking irritating couple in a way that I would personally enjoy and probably relate to. I don't know if it's any good, but you're welcome to provide insight.

The biggest problem I'm having with Stolitz (Stolas + Blitzo) as a couple that this show keeps shoving in my face every episode is that the way that this couple is handled is unfocused and juvenile. I'm utterly convinced Vivienne Medrano has never been in a relationship in her life. There's no chemistry or relatability between either of these two. Neither them ever do anything with each other or for each other at any point during the show besides maybe trying to find a lost daughter or going to a venue down in the lust circle (which is okay, but this is a one off).

She also doesn't understand how to make infidelity (which is already extremely hard to do. Like really fucking hard to do in terms of writing.) and darker shades of morality sympathetic. Because she's not equipped to handle this because, like I said, I don't think she's been in a relationship. Stolas already started out as a partially unsympathetic character because he fucked up his daughters life by sleeping with a commoner and he destroyed Stella's life through betrayal and infidelity. The only motive I could pine out from the earlier episodes was sexual nihility which is fucked up in of itself and I'm pretty sure Brandon Rogers did not approve of this at all given that he was supposed to be voicing a proxy to this. Why do I think this? The episode Circus fucking retconned this to hell and back. Now instead of this being nihlistic infidelity, it's because Stella is a bitch! Guys, don't you feel sympathy for Stolas now! His wife is an abusive fucking bitch! That's why he's being unfaithful!

I don't, but that's because you've turned something that's morally dark (which is fine given that the earlier episodes seemed to hint at the show being nihilistic slapstick comedy) and almost nihilistic and turned it into sloppy and jank writing. Stella has no depth at all. She's a bitch for no apparent reason other than I guess that's how she was born. You could make an argument that maybe this is because of a spoiled child born to a spoiled family because the Ars Goetia live like kings, but it doesn't, to me, make for a compelling character arc for our pal Stolas here. In fact, it makes everything way less compelling because it's, at best, a cliche, and at worst, one dimensional characterization. It's easy to write someone who is a psychopathic bitch which is what Stella is portrayed as. It's hard to make a sympathetic story where both sides of the fence aren't wrong in their reaction to the infidelity but what makes them wrong is the actions they take afterwards which is probably what Vivienne Medrano wanted to go for but lacked the ability to articulate this.

This is probably what she wanted to convey (assuming this wasn't molested by Brandon Rogers or the ESG or whatever); she wanted to convey a couple that came about through very sad and unfortunate circumstances where all parties involved are at least in some ways sympathetic. Stolas coveted a relationship with Blitzo because he came from a disadvantaged background. Stella is pissed because this is basically a betrayal. Octavia is collateral in all of this and she's stressed out by the fact that everything fall apart around her is outside of her control. This type of pairing is popular in stuff like Fanfiction.net and Deviantart and you can make this kind of couple work. The problem is the result we got was a wishy-washy loser (Blitzo) who can't make up his mind whether this relationship should be pursued. We got a annoying stalker who can't keep his dick in his pants for more than five minutes. (Stolas) We got a one dimensional bitch who hates Stolas and bullies him for no reason. (Stella)

Okay, this is all one dimensional and boring as hell and irritating because the show can't shut up about it. Dave, how do you fix this?

It's complicated, but this is my solution. I'd completely rewrite Stella so instead of being a sadistic psychopath as portrayed in the show, she'd instead be a stereotypical tradwife. Instead of telling Stolas he's terrible in bed and that he should just go kill himself, she'd be the most obnoxiously sugary sweet and submissive wife ever to exist who does everything around the house for him. Something that every man and incel thinks that women should be. Something's that basically molded by nobility to create the perfect wife for Stolas which he'd admit in my rewrite of the Circus. There would be a caveat, however, Stella is just an actor. She's just a hollow actor who's being the perfect housewife for Stolas so that he births another heir. I'd probably have a scene or two where paparazzies or cameras are surrounding them and recording them and when Stolas acts out of line, Stella would pinch him or kick his shin and under her breath growl "Smile for the cameras, my beloved. We're a happy family after all."

Everything about Stella is manufactured. Groomed by nobility essentially. Nothing about Stolas' relationship is real. It's all a facade put on by nobility purely for optics and their upcoming daughter Octavia. So Blitzo and Stolas meet up and the reason Stolas likes Blitzo so much is because he's real. Blitzo is going around insulting his tastes in books, telling him his wife's a whore, telling him his room looks pretentious as shit, and his outfit looks goofy. Stolas completely agrees with this to the point where he's applauding for him. Blitzo would be utterly confused and probably think it looks pathetic, but he needs the grimoire to operate his business. So everything you see transpiring in the circus happens and he steals the grimoire. Stolas might've had the grimoire stolen, but he liked it. It was the realest thing he's ever had in his life. His wife was just a manufactured plant, but Blitzo is a real and edgy kind of guy. Something Stolas really enjoys. Someone who breaks the monotony of his world.

But what about Blitzo, what do you do with him? I wouldn't rewrite the entirety of Ozzy's, but I would however add a scene where the two are talking. This is how the script would go:

Stolas: Sooo... what is life like down at the bottom?
Blitzo: Come on I've only bottomed you twice, Stolas.
Stolas: No, no, no, I mean what's it like living at the bottom of the totem pole.
Blitzo: Like you'd want to know you rich pompous asshole.
Stolas: No I mean it, I genuinely want to know what it's like living down there.
Blitzo: Miserable, anyhow...
Stolas: Miserable as in...?
Blitzo: Look it's a fucking miserable place with hookers and a shit ton of blow. Also you can't walk ten fucking feet without getting shot.
Stolas: Oh, you poor poor-
Blitzo: Thing, yeah I know, you think I'm a bum. I get it.
Stolas: A bum who is fun to talk to. A bum I happen to like.
Blitzo: *raises his eyebrows* What...?

Blitzo would probably be surprised that someone way above his league likes him. Someone who doesn't view him as transactional. So where does the relationship tension come in? They don't believe each other and how they view this weird relationship they've found. Blitzo doesn't believe Stolas because he's a higher class who probably thinks Blitzo's easy prey because of desperation. Stolas doesn't believe Blitzo when he says he doesn't want this because he believes Blitzo is a struggling lower class who is desperate for relief from the life of constant crime and living on knife's edge. Neither side is wrong here, but neither side is right and that conflict would play in this final scene rewrite of Ozzy's. Instead of the vanilla dialogue at the end, it would be this:

(And I'll be honest, I don't have a problem with it conceptually, it's just too on the nose, but also kind of too vauge. It's weird.)

(All of the dialogue talking cuddling and shit)
Blitzo: Stolas, don't pretend like you know where I come from, alright? My world's a shithole and yours is just a cushy mansion with everything you want. Don't act like this isn't purely transactional, alright? You just want me to fuck you.
Stolas: Blitz that's not true, I actually really like you and I want to do more with you. I think you're really fun to talk to and well... you're the realest person I've ever met in my life.
Blitzo: *has a surprised reaction. Did he seriously get his name right?* Stolas, how do I believe you? How do I know that you don't think of me as some bum that needs saving? How do I know this isn't some fucking game to you and I'm just some easy catch you pick up off the streets just to satisfy whatever fucked up kink you have in mind each day?
Stolas: Well I could take that grimoir back at any point if I wanted to, but it seems like you're doing well for yourself so I guess you could have it for the time being.
Blitzo: *says nothing, has a look of disbelief*
Stolas: *sighs* Look, I don't know what I could say to tell you how much I well... come to love you Blitz. I... *his voice begins cracking* I really did have fun with you tonight.

Octavia I don't really have an argument against her character so everything about her would stay the same.

But anyhow, this is my very long and autistic post about what I would do to fix this Stolitz bullshit in the show. Something I could probably get behind (heh) and something that would at least be somewhat enjoyable to watch. To me at least, I'm only one guy, but here I think this would make more sense than... whatever the hell they're supposed to be in the show.
Sorry if this post was long, but it was a tangent that I had on my mind for a while.
 
Well considering my runaway success in this thread, I have an idea. Making a full cartoon or game is a little out of range of what I or even this whole thread could conceivably do, but there's something I've dabbled with in the past that might be just easy enough for me to do, and as a bonus its easier to come up with ideas. This is gonna bring back some bad memories for some of you, but hear me out:
Prompt-based forum adventure comic, like [2009 candy corn alien webcomic that will not be named].

I used to screw around with making that kind of thing and learned all the ins and outs of paint.net, adobe flash, and even some primarily-soundfont-based music production in LMMS, as well as the BBS markup language they used.

I already have a script written up for the first scene (which for the record does a way better job of explaining the mechanics of this version of hell than hazbin ever attempted to). Either it stays a webcomic, which is fine by me, or someday it can be a proper animation. I'll see if I can workshop some legally distinct character designs as well.

It would star a main character more similar to Husk, since I figured he's a more down-to-earth character and a better audience analog, being more of an average joe not part of the characters more attached to the shows worldbuilding like Charlie or Alastor, so its a better POV to learn about the show.
 
WE CAN MAKE SNOOT GAME FOR HELLUVA

Firstly:
Hmm. I'm getting the same vibe from when another leftist creative project that was overhyped and poorly written had character designs with transcendental appeal to 4chanerites of all political stripes: Goodbye Volcano High, anyone? This is pure gut feeling but there's an energy surrounding the discourse over Hazbin and Helluva's story concepts that is very similar. If the show fails to live up to the hype, I anticipate a flood of above average to great fan-works or even original works directly inspired from that disappointment.

Called it.

Secondly:
*snip above post*
If this thread actually starts cobbling together a team to make a Hazbin/Helluva-But-Better, ping me about it. I would be glad to toss my hat in the ring. But if this actually becomes a project that makes it to release everyone involved needs to be careful. Very fucking careful.

Snoot Game was a parody of a genderspecial visual novel no one cared about made by 4chan anons, but that still riled up some of the Twitter speds against the dev-team for Snoot Game.

This is potentially a project inspired by something actually popular with a large fanbase of genderspecials with a proportionally large contingent of rabid turbofans. Tack on the people that made it came from Kiwi Farms? Everyone involved in this needs to make sure their OPSEC is ready for it if this gets that far.
 
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