Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Trollblade69]

And finished Hazbin.
If this was going to be the finale, I feel like they should've dedicated more time to making Charlie figure out the necessity of fulfilling short-term goals (survival) before long-term ones (absolution) and given Sir Pentious more screentime even if he did get a bunch of focus in the pilot. Also just remove 90% of episodes 2 and 3 and better focus the relevance of the Video Demon as the way word and info travels in hell instead of using him as a way to wank Alastor.

EDIT: Also started watching Season 2 episode 7 of HB now that I've watched the show that was released before it. That musical number starting the episode is probably the best summation of Vivziepop stuff - an extremely sweary song between gay boys that's equal parts sex jokes and operatic lovesickness. I feel like I could do without the swearing and sex jokes and enjoy it way more.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

I found a thread on twitter about the 'transactional relationship' between Stolas and Blitz. It's from a Stolas stan, so I was curious to hear their arguments about why this 'relationship' works. Why not check it out? What could go wrong?
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Link | Archive
(If you're having trouble reading the pictures below, use the archive link for a better view)

Spoiler: Thread

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Oh. Nevermind. It's basically absolving Stolas of all guilt and putting the blame squarily on Blitz. The poor, poor owl boy is innocent! He acts this way because [insert Stella's abuse argument here], [insert arranged marriage argument here] and because he watched a lot of soap operas (lol?). Bold of this guy to assume that because Stolas met Blitz once when they were children, he now considers them 'childhood friends'. And he also claims that they mutually liked this agreement (lol, lmao). Holy shit, how can you ignore reality this much to keep saying Stolas dindu nuffin? I also like how the guy conveniently forgets that Stolas was constantly demeaning Blitz at every opportunity.

This puts the final nail in the coffin for me; Stolitz defenders are simply unreasonable.

Oh my fucking God, what the fuck is this person on lmao. First off, they never had this "bond" because they only hung out for one day where Blitzø was bought for a play date, and he stole from them. And it's not like he stole just one little item; he stole a bag full of shit. In any case, Stolas should be extremely suspicious of Blitzø when he finds him in his house 25 years later. But apparently Stolas' good memory only happens when the plot demands it.

And yes, Blitzø did initate the first time, and yes, he probably did enjoy it that first time since he stayed all night, but that doesn't mean he liked Stolas or wanted to continue having sex with him afterwards. It's not his fault that Stolas gaslighted his own self into thinking that Blitzø loved him. He obviously knows after the first night that the only thing Blitzø wanted from him was his grimoire, but instead of executing him, Stolas decides to use this to his benefit. Blitzø can use his book, and in return he gets his cloaca pounded like he wants.

And to make sure that Blitzø can accept this proposal right away without thinking through the details, Stolas calls him while he's getting shot at by a crazy bitch. He knows that Blitzø is on a mission, and instead of waiting to call him after he's done, Stolas decides the best time to make this deal is when Blitzø is trying to stay quiet so he doesn't get murdered. And even if Stolas did wait for a more appropriate time, could Blitzø even refuse? Sure there is a chance that Stolas would then just ask for the book back, but he could just as very well have Blitzø sent to prison or killed. Because Stolas absolutely has the power in this situation. This is like saying that a king's mistress shouldn't complain because she accepted his proposal to sleep with him.

Also, can people stop using Stella and her supposed abuse towards Stolas as an excuse for why he doesn't understand relationships? She's so abusive that the only time we see said abuse before the initial cheating is the day before when she calls Stolas a stick in the mud, throws a "not divorced" party, and tells her friends that he's terrible at sex while she's wasted on wine. She so abusive that they still sleep in the same bed together up to him cheating on her.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

No, I don't think you not liking musicals is the problem, it's mostly just the tendency of a lot of the songs in Hazbin to start right the hell out of nowhere with no smooth transition. I think Ghost and Molly McGee sort of does that too, but not to HH's extent.

One of the bigger issues I have with the musicals is how separate they really feel from the show. Wasn't this supposed to be some r-rated show filled with more swearing than real character progression? Why does the song with Charlie and Sir Pentious feel like a song I'd hear on PBS kids? Why does Respectless feel so ingrating and useless? Why does "Whatever it Takes" completely ignore the fact that Dazzle DIED? I still cannot comprehend everyone, including Lucifer, casually ignoring they lost one of their "pets" and pretending they never existed?

I don't know anymore. The musicals should've been told off. Hazbin Hotel is NOT the show to fit a musical into, especially in terms of progression, worldbuilding, and character growth.

Oh look, another thing that the South Park movie does better than Hazbin: being a musical. All of the songs, unlike Hazbin, are not only legitimately good songs in their own right, they also move the plot forward, like all good musicals. Quiet Mountain Town both establishes the setting and provides a fitting denouement, showing how the town has changed for the better by the end. Uncle Fucka is the song that plays during the movie-within-a-movie, Asses of Fire, showing how seemingly irreverent and crude the movie is and how cool that is to the kids (the boys sing it afterwards too). Blame Canada shows the parents' superficial concern for their children and their offloading the blame to external factors instead of themselves where it should be laid, and so on and so forth.

Sir Pentious

Yet ANOTHER thing it does better: tackling the theme of sacrifice/redemption, in the form of Kenny. Kenny skips church to go see Asses of Fire, and is admonished by his mother that he will go to Hell one day if he keeps up his actions. After another screening later on in the movie, Cartman comments on a part where Terence and Phillip apparently light one of their farts on fire, saying people can't do that. Kenny leaps up at the chance to prove Cartman wrong.

It doesn't end well, and Kenny ends up dying and going to Hell, just like his mom said he would. While in Hell, Kenny comes upon the travails of Satan and Saddam, and Kenny is the one who gives Satan the courage to eventually leave Saddam, as mentioned in my earlier post. He also warns Cartman of the dangers that lie ahead of him and his friends throughout the movie. And at the end of the movie, Kenny's wish he receives from Satan is for the world to go back to the way it was (a LOT of shit went down since he died), knowing full well that that would mean he would go back to Hell too. And for these truly selfless acts:

he is awarded a place in Heaven. For "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." - John 15:13

Watch the South Park movie, if you haven't already, is what I'm saying here. Even if you haven't seen the show.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

I think with Hazbin's musical numbers, some of them are fine on their own but many of the songs really should've been cut or put into season 2. I am not surprised by the musical direction given the Pilot had about 3 songs in it.

The song from the third episode "Whatever it takes" really should've not been there, it adds nothing and could've been better conveyed in dialogue, the same with "Respectless" which would've probably fit better into the theoretical season 2 since Velvette really does nothing after this song and all it does is exist to fuck with Carmine which could've been conveyed in dialogue.

I think the last two episodes were the best at handling the musical element, and I think "Hell is Forever" also works as a good song, but as @Vyse Inglebard posted about the South Park movie, I think Vivzie should've maybe learned from it.

With what made the South Park movie work is that both Trey and Matt took a writing course for scriptwriting and learned many things before making the movie which has both strengthened the movie's quality and the quality of South Park as a show after it.

tl;dr While some of Hazbin's songs are good, many could be cut or put into the later season and Vivzie should've learned about writing properly before making her project.

 

[Weppers]

SpindleHorse, Vivienne's company that animates HB, announced today that they're shortstaffed and are hiring new clean-up animators. Seems like Vivzie is losing animators left and right. It's as if the people working there know that the show is going downhill and they're jumping ship.

I remember reading, "clean-up" animators for this show have to produce the entire finished frame, colors and all, from the base linework or "pencils" or whatever they're calling it now. Every gradient lining up, every shading, every color palette alteration, gets lumped in as "clean-up" and the leaker posting this said the pay was shit and they had to rope fans into doing it. If they run out of fans that can live on the poverty wages the show would just stop.

 

[perry 23 tack]

Vivzie should've learned about writing properly before making her project.

I was about to say put the blame on Sam Hack and Andrew Thunberg but even at their cringiest, the Living Tombstone is still better than anything Viv writes on her own. And let's face it, it was still Viv's decision to make the entirety of Hazbin glorified music videos linked by a thin string of a "plot". Cause that's clearly the process she asked the team to do the whole show.

Songs first, visuals second, plot and characters as an afterthought.

 

[perry 23 tack]

Found this video recently and has become one of my favorite examples of Viv/Hazbin antis being just as if not more lolcow than the stans.

Though in terms of lolcow Hellaverse antis, you can never the top the masterpiece of degeneracy that is Pkrussl's review of the HH pilot. How do you out-cringe a shitty tumblr pilot made by a musical theatre womanchild? By being a furfag degenerate who criticizes something for being immature while at the same time flashes himself to his fanbase of children on Twitter.

 

[AnOminous]

I was about to say put the blame on Sam Hack and Andrew Thunberg but even at their cringiest, the Living Tombstone is still better than anything Viv writes on her own.

TLT's Alastor song was probably one of the best media in the whole franchise and it was a "fan" work, although TLT is so pro quality that I don't know why he doesn't do his own stuff. Maybe he'd rather just be the biggest frog in the smallest pond. That should have been canonized.

 

[Hammersmith]

Never underestimate the mental gymnastics of Stolas stans, man. Or fujos.

This shipper is either lunatic or actually insidious.

I know the word gets thrown around to just say at anyone, but I think this person is legitimately media illiterate. I've never seen so much mental gymnastics from a pro-Stolitz person in WEEKS, hooh, God.

Oh my fucking God, what the fuck is this person on lmao.

What’s even more baffling is that thread has 13K likes as of making this post and is gaining more.


Are.. Are we the baddies here? Are we the ones in the wrong because surely 13 thousand people can’t be all mentally challenged, right..?
Let’s look at some of the comments.

Spoiler: Comments

Oh... They are. Why are most fandoms so stupid?

I remember reading, "clean-up" animators for this show have to produce the entire finished frame, colors and all, from the base linework or "pencils" or whatever they're calling it now. Every gradient lining up, every shading, every color palette alteration, gets lumped in as "clean-up" and the leaker posting this said the pay was shit and they had to rope fans into doing it. If they run out of fans that can live on the poverty wages the show would just stop.

Fuck, that’s so awful. That’s such a scummy thing to do. No wonder SpindleHorse is fucking shortstaffed; who would want to work in such conditions? Thank God, @InJailOutSoon reason got ahold of you because you would’ve been stuck in such a shit position for pennies lmao. Not worth it.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

What’s even more baffling is that thread has 13K likes as of making this post and is gaining more.
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Are.. Are we the baddies here? Are we the ones in the wrong because surely 13 thousand people can’t be all mentally challenged, right..?
Let’s look at some of the comments.

Spoiler: Comments

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Oh... They are. Why are most fandoms so stupid?

I really want someone to make a post on a similar media or real life example, and see how many of those same people will agree that is a terrible relationship...and then post a picture of Stolas and Blitzø in response.

I remember reading, "clean-up" animators for this show have to produce the entire finished frame, colors and all, from the base linework or "pencils" or whatever they're calling it now. Every gradient lining up, every shading, every color palette alteration, gets lumped in as "clean-up" and the leaker posting this said the pay was shit and they had to rope fans into doing it. If they run out of fans that can live on the poverty wages the show would just stop.

Fuck, that’s so awful. That’s such a scummy thing to do. No wonder SpindleHorse is fucking shortstaffed; who would want to work in such conditions? Thank God, @InJailOutSoon reason got ahold of you because you would’ve been stuck in such a shit position for pennies lmao. Not worth it.

I'm really not that surprised to hear that since a lot of people think that clean-up includes doing the inking and coloring, which it doesn't. Clean-up animation usually takes twice as long as rough animation since not only are you cleaning said animation up, you have to also make sure that the whole process looks like it was done by one person rather than multiple people. It's definitely much easier and quicker to do because of digital instead of paper, but it's still a lot of work, which is why clean-up animators get paid as much as the rough animators.

But again, not surprised that Viv doesn't know this because they don't tell you this in art school. I remember while working on a short film, one of the people who did work on clean-up before said that the clean-up process shouldn't take as long as the rough animation. At first, I was confused, but that was when I realized that was because our rough animations were pretty much clean-up animations. And the professor (who did work in the industry mind you) didn't correct them at all.

The short was only a minute long, and the character was very simple, so it wasn't so stress-inducing to ink and color. Plus we didn't have to worry about shading, since that was the effects animator job. But I can only imagine how hair-pulling it must be to do all that stuff and more on a longer and more complicated project like Viv's. Especially if the communication is as terrible as ex-workers say it is.

 

[Viper the rappah]

I hope once these all come out, that the biggest commentary channels like SomeOrdinaryGamers and Turkey Tom cover the Spindlehorse's degeneracy. It will be to the point that even ayylmao and iox cannot use plausible deniability to defend the studio anymore.

Ayylmao lives off sucking off vivs cock
Every single drama they always go " bwaaah bwut vivzie isn't bad pwerson, she is just flawed and shiet. Not like she keeps being piece of shit over and over again, not like she can't take criticism! This is all overblown and fans are bad for being against her"


Also if we're talking about animation clean up i want to mention there are several videos on clean up artists doing it for helluva boss from line art to colour which are basically speedpaints with bit of an commentary
I think one if i remember did it all with mouse and even if they use line tools and shit , imagine drawing, colouring and shading all on fuckin mouse on top of being paid pennies.
Comic books had separate people just for colouring because it needed someone else to go over and do it. Now imagine for animation where you do 100 times more than comic and you are told that you will be one to do job because your boss is too busy whining at critics on xitter

 

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

Reminder that the NDAs over working conditions on the show expire this month.
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Oh crap, you're right! Finally, a reason to start frequently checking this thread again!

 

[Weppers]

clean-up
Clean-up animation
cleaning
clean-up
clean-up animation

I thought clean-up was originally a Disney term for inking the outlines with colored inks to produce a fuzzy color transition between the solid color of the cel and the background. I guess all I know is that words mean nothing.

 

[BigJoey41X]

I know everyone goes and blames vivziepop for every single one of the writing mistakes that happens in both of her shows, but, checking the credits for writers, I noticed there are several other people listed, some working on multiple episodes, so I have a question, how did this happen?, because both shows are very obviously her unfiltered vision of what HH and HB should be, did nobody else on the team decide to tard wrangle this woman, to you know, tell her to hold back on some of more egregious aspects of the shows?

 

[didelphigina]

I know everyone goes and blames vivziepop for every single one of the writing mistakes that happens in both of her shows, but, checking the credits for writers, I noticed there are several other people listed, some working on multiple episodes, so I have a question, how did this happen?, because both shows are very obviously her unfiltered vision of what HH and HB should be, did nobody else on the team decide to tard wrangle this woman, to you know, tell her to hold back on some of more egregious aspects of the shows?

If you know Vivziepop at this point, the last thing she wants to be told when making her oc fanfic show a reality is being told that, "No, Vivziepop, you need to learn that some things just can't be added. Why not make this part of the story into a small comic instead? Maybe focus more on the premise than a literal shipping fanfic?"

"Vivziepop, I know most of your audience consists of emotionally unwell teens and adults but please, you need to think about the wider audience and not your oh so """"edgy and mature"""" audience."

"I don't think we should be giving an arc towards a random side character over the main ones, especially this early on. (Fizzarolli). Maybe we should focus an arc on, I don't know, Millie instead? Since, y'know, she's a main character? Why is she being treated like a side character instead??"

If she was told any of this, she would've probably fired and/or blacklisted the person on the spot.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Though in terms of lolcow Hellaverse antis, you can never the top the masterpiece of degeneracy that is Pkrussl's review of the HH pilot. How do you out-cringe a shitty tumblr pilot made by a musical theatre womanchild? By being a furfag degenerate who criticizes something for being immature while at the same time flashes himself to his fanbase of children on Twitter.

Watching the faggot's video, he raises interesting points, even with his "HOMOPHOBIA JOKE", "RACISM JOKE", something quite a lot of shitlibs like him or even breadtubers seem to struggle being funny and I think he was able to nail. I don't know - got to give him credit at least at that. I see some here echoing the statements with how the show's pilot episode seemed like "a show of edgy teenagers IDEA of what a show for adults is" + "cartoon aimed at ADHD children".

 

[didelphigina]

Watching the faggot's video, he raises interesting points, even with his "HOMOPHOBIA JOKE", "RACISM JOKE", something quite a lot of shitlibs like him or even breadtubers seem to struggle being funny and I think he was able to nail. I don't know - got to give him credit at least at that. I see some here echoing the statements with how the show's pilot episode seemed like "a show of edgy teenagers IDEA of what a show for adults is" + "cartoon aimed at ADHD children".

Well, we're not really wrong about that, y'know? The difference between the pilot and the official one is at least it let you know it was something for adults or at least an older audience, and it kept it that way.

It wasn't like the official series where it was trying so hard to be adult at one point (The swearing, sexual jokes and that one BDSM episode) and then suddenly a Cartoon Network special at another point (The singing with Charlie and Sir Pentios, background music that sounds no different from your average cartoon show, etc).

While the pilot is also a victim of the "background music sounding like it came from a kids show" thing, it's moreso of a nitpick than a real issue, but I personally felt like such music really made things feel off-tone. At least it was kind of kept minimal? In the official series, it was used way more than it needed to be. Even in the final episode, the soundtrack was just your typical EPIC MOVIE soundtrack and nothing else.

So yeah, off-tone musicals, off-tone soundtrack and background music, off-tone everything.

The only adult show I know that does "background music sounding like its from a kids show" right is Moral Orel cause it fits within the universe. It's the show that can have silly-ish music playing during a serious scene and have it not look out of place. That's because the writers of Moral Orel actually know what they're doing, though.

 

[perry 23 tack]

You know, I do put the blame Adam Geylan and Brandon Rogers too as they are both responsible for Helluva's humor and writing being so garbage. But like, I've seen their work on Brandon's own channel and the 3-episode BRYCE miniseries, and while it doesn't make me laugh, it's at least structured and paced well. And they write actual jokes that while I personally don't find funny, I can understand why other people can. Like the balanced dramedy tone of BRYCE is basically what HB wants to be but fails because of Viv's incompetent story planning and vision for the show switching on a dime.

So yeah, I think Brandon and Adam, while still responsible for Helluva's dogshit writing, had to work with whatever the hell Viv "planned" for the show, assuming she mapped it out at all and not just making shit up as it goes along. Sort of a repeat of my Haft and Underberg point but for Helluva, though again, these two affect the show even more given how they co-write and collab with Viv.

Plus, Adam is basically just Viv's bitch and acts as her dicksucking damage control whenever she can't respond on Twitter.

 

[Hammersmith]

SpindleHorse, Vivienne's company that animates HB, announced today that they're shortstaffed and are hiring new clean-up animators. Seems like Vivzie is losing animators left and right. It's as if the people working there know that the show is going downhill and they're jumping ship.

Remember when I posted this?

Yeah, so someone from tumblr did some digging and found out that HB, throughout the two seasons of its runtime, has gone through 444 animators.
Holy fucking shit... How incompetent do you have to be to achieve this? INSANITY

Spoiler: Tumblr Post

To compare, HH only had 62 animators in season one.

 

[didelphigina]

Remember when I posted this?

Yeah, so someone from tumblr did some digging and found out that HB, throughout the two seasons of its runtime, has gone through 444 animators.
Holy fucking shit... How incompetent do you have to be to achieve this? INSANITY

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Spoiler: Tumblr Post

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To compare, HH only had 62 animators in season one.

I saw that on Tumblr yesterday, and I was as baffled as you are because Christ on a PANTRY, that's animator incompetence in levels that not even outsourced animation companies can compete with. 444? Nearly half a THOUSAND? AND ONLY TWO SEASONS IN?

HOW VIV, HOW?????????????????????????

If it reaches to the thousands in Season 3, please do quote this reply because I know it's not gonna get any better from here.