Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?


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So a gay artsy friend of mine knows I’m a sucker for good music and has linked me a couple of Stolas’ tunes (Mastermind and Look My Way) and it got me curious about the show, cuz hot damn. Mastermind felt like an old Disney villain song and Look My Way summons onion ninjas (pig-ignorant of the show, had no idea about the grooming and abuse until this thread, pls no kill). I am also marginally squickked out about it. Like, how fucked in the head is the LGBTWTFBBQ community that they identify so hard with literal demons in hell? Gonna give the show a pass and hope the music tanks because songs that good do not deserve to be in a show as fubar as this one.
 
Like, how fucked in the head is the LGBTWTFBBQ community that they identify so hard with literal demons in hell?
It's one of the easiest ways to pretend to be counter-culture rebels against Christian-influenced Western society. They never moved on from their "Fuck you, Mom and Dad!" era. Even if they actually never faced religious abuse, they get to wear pentacles, "vegan leather," and pretend to be EEEEVIL on social media.
 
It's one of the easiest ways to pretend to be counter-culture rebels against Christian-influenced Western society. They never moved on from their "Fuck you, Mom and Dad!" era. Even if they actually never faced religious abuse, they get to wear pentacles, "vegan leather," and pretend to be EEEEVIL on social media.
I'm super into this show for the music and fun character designs, but as someone who hates obnoxious libshits like that it truly is my own personal hell.

I've been debating drawing characters as converted Christians and showing then teaching good lessons but that would have an audience of just me.
 
I'm super into this show for the music and fun character designs, but as someone who hates obnoxious libshits like that it truly is my own personal hell.

I've been debating drawing characters as converted Christians and showing then teaching good lessons but that would have an audience of just me.
Do it i want them all in church. Need help? DM me
 
Crimson doesn't make much sense at all. He's an imp, supposedly the lowest of the low, but he's also a mob boss who can blackmail one of the top demons in all of hell. He also somehow built this business despite being stupid enough to get duped by one his goons. Blitzo's ownership of an independent assassination business is treated as a big deal even as late as S2 E10, yet here's this midget, who happens to be a top crime lord and also Moxxie's dad.

Side tangent but I hate it when modern writers write in gay political marriages. What's the point of Moxxie marrying the gay shark guy? They aren't going to have kids, so who's going to inherit all the assets when they're gone?
 
Crimson doesn't make much sense at all. He's an imp, supposedly the lowest of the low, but he's also a mob boss who can blackmail one of the top demons in all of hell. He also somehow built this business despite being stupid enough to get duped by one his goons. Blitzo's ownership of an independent assassination business is treated as a big deal even as late as S2 E10, yet here's this midget, who happens to be a top crime lord and also Moxxie's dad.

Side tangent but I hate it when modern writers write in gay political marriages. What's the point of Moxxie marrying the gay shark guy? They aren't going to have kids, so who's going to inherit all the assets when they're gone?
Usually iirc if there's no hiers people just hand over the assets (In Japan it's usually their predecessor, IE Toriyama with Totoryou.) so I assume if they trust someone who they trained they'd take over.
 
Crimson doesn't make much sense at all. He's an imp, supposedly the lowest of the low, but he's also a mob boss who can blackmail one of the top demons in all of hell. He also somehow built this business despite being stupid enough to get duped by one his goons. Blitzo's ownership of an independent assassination business is treated as a big deal even as late as S2 E10, yet here's this midget, who happens to be a top crime lord and also Moxxie's dad.

Side tangent but I hate it when modern writers write in gay political marriages. What's the point of Moxxie marrying the gay shark guy? They aren't going to have kids, so who's going to inherit all the assets when they're gone?

It's another obvious case of Vivzie making stuff as she goes and warping canon around it later. It's like she wanted moxie to have daddy issues, an arranged gay marriage episode and draw mafia thugs so she did all at once. something something its like rwby.

Why doesn't blitzo use the crystal to make a human disguise? Because vivzie likes to draw them in costumes so fuck you. The joke/drama she wants at the time overwrites any in universe logic.

Another example is Barbiewire somehow having an asmodean crystal seemingly just because Vivzie wanted to draw human barbie. If an imp that just left rehab can get one surely blitzo could too, and that destroys the whole premise of the show. Even the "explanation" makes no sense (selling drugs isn't lust related), its like vivzie didn't even try.
 
I'm super into this show for the music and fun character designs, but as someone who hates obnoxious libshits like that it truly is my own personal hell.
Man, I'm right there with you. I'm a sucker for animated musical numbers and stories involving hell.
I've been debating drawing characters as converted Christians and showing then teaching good lessons but that would have an audience of just me.
Do it. Make art for yourself if it makes you lol.
 
Sorry for the double post, just a thought crossed my mind. Does it feel like Adam might be based on another person Viv had beef with in the past? Since according to the doc, Pentious was based of her ex-friend whom she mocked over how he looked and dressed, while the weeb girl in the short was based of another person. So, I cant shake this feeling that Adam is also someone from Vivs life that crossed her.
Any chad male that tells dirty jokes at the bar like a normal person and won't fuck a fat weeb fujo autist.
 
I've been thinking too hard about this show again.
First, why include the Seven Deadly Sins if their roles are so insignificant? Given their prominence in religion and mythology, including them without meaningful impact seems like a wasted opportunity. They barely serve any long-term purpose in the story.

Here’s the lineup:
  • Pride: Lucifer
  • Greed: Mammon
  • Wrath: Satan
  • Envy: Leviathan
  • Lust: Asmodeus
  • Gluttony: Beelzebub
  • Sloth: Belphegor
These are seven independent demons who supposedly control their respective rings of Hell. Yet, despite their power and status, their connection to demonology is irrelevant in the narrative. Where’s the weight of their influence? For beings who rule entire rings, they do shockingly little in the story. If I asked you what major purpose and elements they served to the story as a whole, what have they done as of now, that couldn't have been done without them?

The show should’ve focused on exploring each Sin in depth, delving into their personalities and the environments of their rings when that Deadly sin was focused. Right now, there’s no reason to fear them. Where is their power, their malevolence, their defining traits? So far, Mammon is just fat and greedy (what was Viv’s intention here?), and Satan’s only notable feature is anger issues. That’s it? Every once and a while they get mad and flare up to their true form, okay, but that's not really all that significant. It's great they have all this power, but what's greater is watching them actually use it. Asmodeus yelling and hitting statues isn't really that scary considering he's the beacon of lust. Sex could easily be the scariest used element for him to exploit. Raping of >country<, Concubines, prostitution, sexual assault, etc yet he just raises his voice and sings sometimes. Lol. Lmao even. "Hell".


Why not take us through each ring, anyway? Show us Asmodeus’s domain and its inhabitants. Take us into Verosika’s world and its atmosphere. What’s Beelzebub’s ring like? Couldn’t it explore Loona’s past and the grim reality of her upbringing? That would make for good Loona development. Take us back to her past. Make her relive moments of horror and be vulnerable for once.

Does Mammon’s ring exist beyond his circus? Do the Sins visit each other? Who watches over their ring when their gone? Are there uprisings in the rings? What do the Sins do when they’re not at their usual haunts? Where’s the horror, the intimidation? Also, why are they so easy to run into and chat with? Why do they all give lowly imps (Blitz/Loona) the time of day if imps and hellhounds are so low in the playing field?

Each Sin’s introduction should have been far more impactful, too. Reflecting on other media, I think of One Piece and the introduction of Big Mom. She’s a towering, overwhelming presence, with acidic saliva that burns the ground as she lounges lazily yet menacingly. Her interaction with the main character immediately establishes her as a terrifying, unnatural force—a true threat. She also eats one of her own children here too if I recall correctly. She fucking eats her own child out of anger and hunger. That's a strong introduction for a villain/bad guy if I've ever seen one.

Big Mom Intro Manga.jpg
This is a character in children's media btw. Funny how fans talk about Vivzie's work being truly good and amazing "Young adult" work despite having the least threatening twinks ever while children's media has shit like above.

By contrast, none of the Seven Deadly Sins were given such an impactful introduction. Why not? Aren’t we supposed to fear them? See them as these denizens of hell high on the powerscale? What is the intended reaction when the audience sees these characters? Are we meant to feel awe, fear, or dread? Instead, they’re introduced no differently than imps, hellhounds, or succubi—ordinary denizens of Hell.

Stolas feels like the only character who received any meaningful effort in his introduction, yet even that was later retconned. Why weren’t the Sins given the same level of care and gravitas? It feels like a massive missed opportunity to establish them as the imposing, larger-than-life forces they’re meant to be.
You know what could have made them more impactful, even off-screen until they'd make an appearance?

The Overlords. "Agents of Sin." Now, hear me out.
Having powers granted by the Seven Deadly Sins themselves could have been an excellent foundation for infighting among them. For example, Lucifer’s ring is under constant assault by Heaven due to the rampant sinners residing there. But why are all sinners concentrated in Pride? If someone goes to Hell for lust, why aren’t they sent to the Lust ring? Likewise, envy-bound souls should logically go to the Envy ring. What makes the other rings so exclusive that sinners can’t inhabit them? This lack of development for the rings is a glaringly missed opportunity—each realm could have its own distinct function and purpose to be explored.

To maintain peace among the Overlords, there could be an unspoken agreement to stay within their own territories unless overthrown. Alastor could serve as a wildcard—a mysterious figure who rose to power quickly, disrupting the established order. Since the Deadly Sins already have their Agents, (Overlords) Alastor’s sudden appearance could cause chaos and paranoia among the Seven Deadly Sins. His habit of killing other Overlords could further anger the Sins, as it weakens their control and reduces their power. This could lead to a deeper investigation into Alastor’s origins, building suspense until the truth of his empowerment is revealed.

Perhaps suspicion among the Deadly Sins creates further division, with each believing another is secretly behind Alastor’s rise. This could culminate in the shocking revelation that Rosie, who is actually Lilith, empowered him. Rosie/Lilith could also have an alliance with Beelzebub due to their shared “Indulging” (Cannibal town/gluttony) symbolism. Beelzebub might have started as a grotesque, monstrous being, but through Lilith’s power, she was transformed into her current "fun party girl" appearance instead of the design we all figured she'd have. This would make more people in hell trust her and give her more power. In exchange, Lilith—under the guise of Rosie—could become Beelzebub’s "Agent", giving narrative depth to Beelzebub’s character while also justifying her uncharacteristic design.

If the Sinner Overlords were directly connected to the Seven Deadly Sins, that would not only add more purpose and intrigue to the Sins, but also to hell itself. It adds a chance for development and intrigue. To go back to what I said before, let's look at the following Sins/Overlords possible connections as "Agents of the Sins":
  • Pride: Lucifer - Fredrick and Bethesda von Eldritch (Parents of Charlie's ex boyfriend)
    • Charlie dated their son. As a result, Lucifer could be on better terms with them and have them as heads of his ring. Powerful, elegant, and if Charlie/Seviathon produced an heir, it would be a win/win for both families.
    • More intrigue could also be added if perhaps Lucifer "acquired" them from Leviathan at some point in an exchange. This could be why Carmilla is for Envy, despite being prideful in her skills and efficiency with weapons. Lucifer, who is not in Charlie's life much, does this exchange to try and make her happy from a distance.
    • Due to being Envious, von Eldritch's could also have inherent problems with Lucifer and their Envy that affects their relationship once they're so close. Could also play into Lucifer's own Envy against God when he tried to overthrow him once. Depending on their modern relationship, there could've even been a parallel with the von Eldritchs trying to overthrow Lucifer and him keeping it quiet from Charlie, as to not upset her, leading to offscreen character development for him and how he did try to make it work with Charlie from a distance.
  • Greed: Mammon - Zestial (Fusion Fall Demongo guy)
    • Oldest Overlord, "His reputation is such that demons other than his fellow Overlords are terrified of him, hiding or cowering whenever he passes by. The sight of him causes one civilian to set himself on fire out of fear. Even Alastor appeared to be on edge meeting him during a walk."
    • Mammon is seen as a joke almost among the other Seven Sins. Having someone elder and powerful under his wing like Zestial could force them to give him more respect due to not wanting to deal with his Agent of Sin.
  • Wrath: Satan - Zeezi (emo raptor girl)
    • Not much deep thought into this one since we know nothing about Zeezi. I mostly added these two together because Dragon father and Raptor daughter. The idea of wrath having an emo dino kid would be funny, especially if she is a younger Overlord with potential he's trying to awaken in her.
  • Envy: Leviathan - Carmilla
    • The trade with Lucifer.
    • Leviathan could've agreed to the trade with Lucifer due to being jealous of Carmilla's power and ability to acquire rare angelic weapons. Leviathan is jealous of the power and agrees to the trade, taking temporary joy in having more infantry under her arsenal, only to be envious once more when they come to terms that they lose the von Eldritchs and their money/influence.
  • Lust: Asmodeus - Vox & Friends
    • Movies/Music/Magazines, Sex sells baby. Continued within the spoilered tag below.
  • Gluttony: Beelzebub - Rosie
    • Agreement between Lilith and Beelzebub. Beelzebub struggles to pull in people to become gluttonous because they all fear her appearance which makes her one of the weaker Deadly Sins. Lilith, (disguised as Rosie), offers a deal with her. She will make her pretty and more approachable if she pretends that "Rosie" is her Agent of Sin. Then, once the deal is made, Beelzebub gets to be pretty and has to keep Rosie's true identity as "Lilith" a secret, or else the deal will be broken and she will turn monstrous again. This allows "Rosie" to secretly introduce Alastor into the Overlords who attack the other Overlords to overthrow, leading to infighting and suspicion as to who secretly gave power to Alastor.
  • Sloth: Belphegor - one of the unnamed Overlords
    • I'd love to tie her in, but we don't know enough about other Overlords to make connections.
Then, even when the Deadly Sins are away at meetings and the like, they could also have their Agent of Sin watch over the Ring for them in their absence, showing their trust and commitment to their chosen one. This could also add intrigue of other normal sinners wanting to live the good life under a Deadly Sin's wing and challenge them (like Pentious). It would add motivation to become an Overlord that I feel is lacking.
Then there are the “Vees” (Valentino, Vox, and Velvette)—another example of wasted potential. The concept could’ve been elevated by aligning them with key elements of media: Valentino as the music industry, Vox as movies/television, and Velvette as magazines/tabloids. Together, they’d control Hell’s media landscape, with movies, music, and print forming a sinister trifecta. It should’ve been the three M’s, not V’s.

Imagine Angel Dust as a major musician, beloved for his hit songs but completely exploited by Valentino, who is a record label and music producer. Angel could be the voice of Hell, (Hells Angel lolol) celebrated but penniless because Valentino siphons all the profits. Perhaps Angel becomes a prostitute just to survive financially, letting Vivzie still live out her Fujo fetish while also making him sing his heart out. Tie in mafia elements—real-world musicians like Frank Sinatra and Elvis were rumored to have mafia ties. You want to sing and perform in Boston in X time period? Gotta pay the ransom, bud.
Angel’s backstory already involves mafia influences during his life, so this would align perfectly. In death, he could fall victim to an even more powerful figure (The Vees). It would flesh out his character beautifully. In life, he is one of the big guns, the one with the power to kill and maim while looking pretty on a stage and bringing in all the money for himself & mafia dad, but in hell, his role is reversed, and he's now become another Mafia man's bitch, forcing him to learn the hard way how terrible he was to people in life. Hell, it could serve as part of his own redemption. Make him walk in his victim's shoes.

And why not integrate the Seven Sins in the first place? (Obvs because Viv doesn't own the rights to collab both shows like this but that would've been prevented if she just made one bloody show instead of two)? If I'm correct, according to Vivzie’s worldbuilding, the Sins grow stronger based on the belief or fear they inspire, right? Assign each Sin an overlord "Agent of Sin" to act as their enforcer or agent. Sex sells, so make the Vees Asmodeus’s tools. Give them (or at least Vox) his “Sin’s Blessing,” or a "Deal" similar to how Rosie was tied to Alastor. Media—television, music, and gossip—already perpetuates lust and indulgence, which aligns perfectly with Asmodeus’s influence. It would expand his power across multiple rings while spreading his agenda to unsuspecting demons.

I wish there was more meaningful connection between these borderline-nameless characters. I had to Google the Overlords’ names, and even then, at least three remain unnamed. The show keeps introducing more and more faces, but none of them seem to serve the plot or enhance the story’s integrity. If you’re going to have a large cast, each character needs a purpose—they should feel intriguing, well-rounded, and integral to the narrative.

Right now, none of these Overlords pose a real threat or have any lasting impact. If Vox were to die tomorrow, what would change in Hell? Who would it affect? Does he protect anyone? What about his business—how would its loss disrupt the order of things? Would his side pieces Valentino and Velvette mourn him, and how would their lives shift? What are the long-term consequences of losing an Overlord? And for that matter, what defines an Overlord? Is it just raw strength? How much land they own? How do these characters manage to coexist long enough to hold conference meetings?

Giving the Overlords connections to the Deadly Sins could add so much more depth to their dynamics. For example, if Vox were killed by Alastor, Asmodeus—his “sponsor” of power could be enraged and driven to seek revenge. If Asmodeus is on good terms with Beelzebub, she might find herself torn, hiding Rosie’s connection to Alastor while watching Asmodeus accuse and antagonize other Sins that could perhaps lead to his own downfall. This could lead to tension among the Sins as secrets unravel and alliances crumble. What if he accuses Lucifer of Alastor's presence? Force the man of Pride back into the playing field against his will while Beelzebub fights an internal battle over it. Mastermind seems to imply that the three are friends to an extent and Lucifer's absense and Alastor's random rise could be a connection made by Asmodeus. So much potential for conflict while the main story progresses. A fun B-plot to be expanded on in the background.

What about other connections? If Carmilla and Zestial are in love with two daughters, how does that impact their respective Deadly Sins, Leviathan and Mammon? Maybe Leviathan and Mammon also share a bond, echoing their Agents’ relationship. These dynamics could add layers of intrigue and personal stakes that would elevate the story far beyond its current state.

The Overlords could have served as a reflection of their respective Sins, offering a glimpse into their roles as trusted lackeys and confidants. A mock scene contrasting the "big leagues"—a high-stakes meeting of the Seven Deadly Sins and the Goetia during Stolas' trial—with a more modest Overlords' meeting, as depicted in Hazbin Hotel, could have been compelling.

Such a parallel could not only highlight the hierarchy within Hell but also provide subtle foreshadowing of the Sins’ dynamics and personalities. Through these interactions, we could see how the Sins relate to one another and gain deeper insight into their character, power, and underlying relationships.

This is all over the place, but you get the idea.
 
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I'm super into this show for the music and fun character designs, but as someone who hates obnoxious libshits like that it truly is my own personal hell.

I've been debating drawing characters as converted Christians and showing then teaching good lessons but that would have an audience of just me.
No way, I've seen something akin to the IMP members being C.H.E.R.U.B.S. members or something (Think of Blitzo, Moxxie, Millie et al, but as angels). Really nice designs:
1734056249166.png

I guess this is the name of the "AU" - "Leave it to Heaven". Sadly, I've seen some where they do "Heaven-Blitzo" with "Heaven-Stolas" fan-art, but if there's no faggotry in general, it seems nice as a concept. But I know what you mean, going deeper into the Christian teachings and such. I like it.
 
I've been thinking too hard about this show again.

I think it's clear vivzie designed sins as "quirky celebrity OCs that force themselves as guests" and not these supposed divine beings that exist since the dawn of time. None of them are particularly wise, mysterious or powerful.

Hazbin powercreep also ironically makes them seem rather unimpressive. If an angel weapon can kill Adam/Lucifer it should be able to kill the other sins easily so why don't the sins care about controlling them? This is a plot hole for another day...

You're right about their introduction feeling excedingly lame too. In any anime there would be multiple episodes hyping up the sin reveal and an iconic introduction but in vivzie they're just celebs that appear out of nowhere.

The worst part is that vivzie CAN give a good intro, like Alastor in the pilot. Ominous knocking, unnerving animations, funny door closing, title drop, short explanation of who he is, "If i wanted to hurt anyone here, i would've done so already."


Vivzie is shilling her OC sure but she's shilling it well. Better than any helluva sin introduction. Meanwhile mammon intro is like

Narrator: It's the king of greed: Mammon!
Mammon: It's me, the king of greed! I am the coolest clown ever! Who wants to be a clown and exploited by me? CLOOOOOWNS!"

Someone please explain to me what is the missing link between greed and clowns because it just looks autistic. You'd think the greed incarnate would be all about manipulating deals and contracts but Mammon just looks like a rich retard abusing a popularity he never earned. Blitzo isn't impressed so it's not like he's supposed to be supernaturally manipulative either.
 
Speaking of fandesigns and fancreations heres the ones before the show even fuckin aired.


They're all twinks and I can HD quality imagine their voices a thousand miles away. I can imagine them being the top spot on the Hazbin Hotel tag on AI chatbot sites. I don't like it. But I'll give them this, arguably more tolerable designs compared to how Vivziepop interpreted the angels. Cough, St. Peter...
 
No way, I've seen something akin to the IMP members being C.H.E.R.U.B.S. members or something (Think of Blitzo, Moxxie, Millie et al, but as angels). Really nice designs:
View attachment 6746317

I guess this is the name of the "AU" - "Leave it to Heaven". Sadly, I've seen some where they do "Heaven-Blitzo" with "Heaven-Stolas" fan-art, but if there's no faggotry in general, it seems nice as a concept. But I know what you mean, going deeper into the Christian teachings and such. I like it.
Like a Christian show for teens. Damn, that sounds nice....now you got me inspired
 
Like a Christian show for teens. Damn, that sounds nice....now you got me inspired
Didnt we have similar shit in the 90s and those shows would suck, because how obnoxious they got with shoving the Chirstian stuff down ones throat?
Yes. I might ask @Starscream's Loyalty to think of a more better design.
I'll say this, theres def no way Viv would have such a design in her show, because not only better than some of her designs, but also because how it seems very welcoming.
 
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