- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
To be fair, Roo and Alastor are both pretty different villains so it wouldn't really be the same, and given the leaks, Roo is already in Season 1 as the Fake Lilith that Lute is talking to as Roo = Eve = Fake Lilith.
Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread
- Thread starter XtrmGamr719
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
So I'm going to go a bit off topic with what was being discussed of recent but I really want to talk more about Charlie's designs, why the pilot's version will always be superior, and the transitional design between the pilot and what we got in the show:
First we got the og design; the best design in my opinion. The only thing I would possibly change is making the bottom part of the pants and cheek marks the same color as her jacket. But other than that, it's a good design that tells the audience what kind of character this is. The suit portrays this person as wanting to a leader and taken seriously, but the softer color palette shows that she's not as strict and is more laid-back in her attitude than a typical business person. Her loose pony-tail also shows that as well; again trying to show maturity but is ultimately a free-spirited individual. The round face and big eyes points to someone being child-like and naive. The line work being smooth and rounded shows that this person is positive and has a bubly personality. Even at the areas that are more edged like the elbows and knees, they're still relatively rounded. All in all, it's a great portrayal of Charlie's core personality.
The design you see here is the one that I called "transitionary" as this was used in the Addict music video and the Instagram posts the characters used to do. Now the main difference from the pilot's design to this one is losing one button on the pants, the colors are more saturated, and the hair is tied like how show's version. My main complaints are that the colors are more saturated and that small red shading under the bangs. That bright splotch of color makes the eyes naturally be drawn to that area, when it really should be. But other than that, the design still basically portrays the core of what Charlie is as character in the pilot. Even the tied up hair is still puffy and rounded. I also understand why they would want her hair to be tied up in a manner; for it to come more drastically undone when she transforms into her more demon form. If this was what we got in the final show, I would have been completely fine with it, only having some minor nitpicks.
And then we get to the final design and...yeah, this one has been discussed immensely why it was a downgrade. So much red. And differing shades of red too. All burning my retinas. Everything is much straighter and stiffer; we lose that expressivenes from the two previous designs. The line art is no longer round and smooth; instead it much sharper and edgier. It's the same person...but the core personality and Charlie's character is no longer shown in the design. If we didn't have the two previous designs to fall on to, and this was what we were introduced to, with no knowledge of who this character was, tell me....what would this design tell you about this character? She's a business woman probably and she's probably nice. Not a lot compared to the other previous designs.
First we got the og design; the best design in my opinion. The only thing I would possibly change is making the bottom part of the pants and cheek marks the same color as her jacket. But other than that, it's a good design that tells the audience what kind of character this is. The suit portrays this person as wanting to a leader and taken seriously, but the softer color palette shows that she's not as strict and is more laid-back in her attitude than a typical business person. Her loose pony-tail also shows that as well; again trying to show maturity but is ultimately a free-spirited individual. The round face and big eyes points to someone being child-like and naive. The line work being smooth and rounded shows that this person is positive and has a bubly personality. Even at the areas that are more edged like the elbows and knees, they're still relatively rounded. All in all, it's a great portrayal of Charlie's core personality.
The design you see here is the one that I called "transitionary" as this was used in the Addict music video and the Instagram posts the characters used to do. Now the main difference from the pilot's design to this one is losing one button on the pants, the colors are more saturated, and the hair is tied like how show's version. My main complaints are that the colors are more saturated and that small red shading under the bangs. That bright splotch of color makes the eyes naturally be drawn to that area, when it really should be. But other than that, the design still basically portrays the core of what Charlie is as character in the pilot. Even the tied up hair is still puffy and rounded. I also understand why they would want her hair to be tied up in a manner; for it to come more drastically undone when she transforms into her more demon form. If this was what we got in the final show, I would have been completely fine with it, only having some minor nitpicks.
And then we get to the final design and...yeah, this one has been discussed immensely why it was a downgrade. So much red. And differing shades of red too. All burning my retinas. Everything is much straighter and stiffer; we lose that expressivenes from the two previous designs. The line art is no longer round and smooth; instead it much sharper and edgier. It's the same person...but the core personality and Charlie's character is no longer shown in the design. If we didn't have the two previous designs to fall on to, and this was what we were introduced to, with no knowledge of who this character was, tell me....what would this design tell you about this character? She's a business woman probably and she's probably nice. Not a lot compared to the other previous designs.
Gondolindrim
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2020
What the hell does that even mean?
Strawberry Kiwi Propel
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2025
It gets confusing whenever they mention Hell in Hazbin, are they actually referring to all of Hell, or just the Pride Ring? The Vees, for instance, are said to run their respective industries of Hell.
With Vox and Valentino, the former's broadcast control is questionable seeing how Satan made all of Hell watch Blitzo 's execution. The latter makes you wonder what Asmodeus thinks that some random Sinner is leading all of Hell's porn, especially how Angel Dust gets promoted in Lust, steering Oz's people out from his domain.
Though in that regard, having Hellborns advertise Sinner activity in the other rings does seem beneficial for the Overlords to expand their business horizons. On the flip side, why would the average Sinner see the need for Hellborns taking up space in Pride. Most jarring on Extermination Day, since apparently Exorcists don't attack buildings, what's stopping Sinners to break into an Imp City residence or I.M.P Headquarters, massacre the neighborhood, and chill inside whilst the Extermination's happening?
Yeah, Helluva Boss kinda threw a wrench in Hazbin's world building. Neither show can't raise the stakes too high without affecting what goes on in the other. Could work under the right circumstances, but it just limits the possibilities for plot progression.
Attachments
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2025
With all this AngelDust talk it sparked some creative juices on me, did this one pretty quick like an hour.
Redo
Old AngelDust
Named after a drug that didn't exist in his timeperiod. No research on Viv.
Too much pink
Doesn't look like a spider.
Personally not sexy to me looks fucking weird like the guy from Fosters home for imaginary friends.
No Mafia look
What is that hair style? It doesn't fit the mafia timeperiod.
Heterochromatic eyes. Did they ever talk about that in the show?
New one
Purples adding the poisonous look, and to look more threatening.
Gave him more spider features (Thorax, more emphasis on the eyes, he hasn't 4 limbs pair of limbs proping up his fake tits.
Changed his outfit it's a male corset vest.
Gave the guy back his little hat.
Black eyes to look more threatening.
Slicked back hair to add more of a mafia look.
Gave him back the skull fluff as that was pretty iconic.
Story wise
Anthony in his past life was still the son of a Mafioso. Which caused him to become arrogant.
Hes too big for his britches getting access to all these drugs and is a loose cannon, he has so many crimes under his belt he lost track.
Is a closeted gay guy, who has a weird obsession with prostitutes (specifically women) and he targets, kills, and assaults prostitutes specifically. He is a misogynist (he basically is one in the show already)
He is in love with his lacky who is actually terrified of Anthony. And doesn't know how to comprehend theses feelings especially to a man, and is jealous because the lacky is promiscuous and has sex with tons of women.
Anthony has been with women, and often does stuff very bad to them in the guise of his power/ that he paid them.
He finally confesses his love for him, and the lacky is terrified. He elopes with a woman who he gets emotionally attached too and decides to quit the Mafia life. Anthony in a drug filled rage feeling rejected, goes after him and kills her and shoots him. Both dead he realized he killed his unrequited love and decides to kill himself ODing on drugs.
In hell he comes back as a Spider but also given a womanly figure as punishment. Demons seem to be really attracted to it.
When you die in hell the way you die effects your Demon form. And because he Od'ed he's fiending for drugs.
He starts off with petty crimes to get money. Valentino finds him after years of wandering the streets, lures him in with drugs. Introducing him to AngelDust (where he gets his name from)
At first Valentino and him rise to the top doing crime together and stuff like that, Anthony has never been close to a guy like that. They both rise together, but Valentinos ego gets the better of him. And makes deals with lower demons to gain power, and thus getting Vox's attention. They drink and decide to make a deal, Vox proposes they gain more power through indoctrination and sin. Thinking sex sells, and encourages him to backstab Angel Dust.
Valentino coxes Anthony to have sex with him. To celebrate "their success", he records them doing it. He lies to him to sign a contract where they would split earnings and they would be together forever. He doesn't read it and signs it trusting him.
The contract is actually about taking half of Anthonys earnings, and that he would be Valentino's forever.
He is forced to be a prostitute, and Vox/Valentino make money off of AngelDust making pornagraphy and being a prostitute.
Now that he is Valentinos "property" he abuses AngelDust (sexually, verbally, physically) he is facing the punishment he did to the women he saw beneath him.
His redemption would be to come to terms with his abusive habits, lack of respecting people's boundaries (men), his misogynistic views on women, and coming to terms his crimes and murder of his bestfriend/crush.
As always.
Redo
Old AngelDust
Named after a drug that didn't exist in his timeperiod. No research on Viv.
Too much pink
Doesn't look like a spider.
Personally not sexy to me looks fucking weird like the guy from Fosters home for imaginary friends.
No Mafia look
What is that hair style? It doesn't fit the mafia timeperiod.
Heterochromatic eyes. Did they ever talk about that in the show?
New one
Purples adding the poisonous look, and to look more threatening.
Gave him more spider features (Thorax, more emphasis on the eyes, he hasn't 4 limbs pair of limbs proping up his fake tits.
Changed his outfit it's a male corset vest.
Gave the guy back his little hat.
Black eyes to look more threatening.
Slicked back hair to add more of a mafia look.
Gave him back the skull fluff as that was pretty iconic.
Story wise
Anthony in his past life was still the son of a Mafioso. Which caused him to become arrogant.
Hes too big for his britches getting access to all these drugs and is a loose cannon, he has so many crimes under his belt he lost track.
Is a closeted gay guy, who has a weird obsession with prostitutes (specifically women) and he targets, kills, and assaults prostitutes specifically. He is a misogynist (he basically is one in the show already)
He is in love with his lacky who is actually terrified of Anthony. And doesn't know how to comprehend theses feelings especially to a man, and is jealous because the lacky is promiscuous and has sex with tons of women.
Anthony has been with women, and often does stuff very bad to them in the guise of his power/ that he paid them.
He finally confesses his love for him, and the lacky is terrified. He elopes with a woman who he gets emotionally attached too and decides to quit the Mafia life. Anthony in a drug filled rage feeling rejected, goes after him and kills her and shoots him. Both dead he realized he killed his unrequited love and decides to kill himself ODing on drugs.
In hell he comes back as a Spider but also given a womanly figure as punishment. Demons seem to be really attracted to it.
When you die in hell the way you die effects your Demon form. And because he Od'ed he's fiending for drugs.
He starts off with petty crimes to get money. Valentino finds him after years of wandering the streets, lures him in with drugs. Introducing him to AngelDust (where he gets his name from)
At first Valentino and him rise to the top doing crime together and stuff like that, Anthony has never been close to a guy like that. They both rise together, but Valentinos ego gets the better of him. And makes deals with lower demons to gain power, and thus getting Vox's attention. They drink and decide to make a deal, Vox proposes they gain more power through indoctrination and sin. Thinking sex sells, and encourages him to backstab Angel Dust.
Valentino coxes Anthony to have sex with him. To celebrate "their success", he records them doing it. He lies to him to sign a contract where they would split earnings and they would be together forever. He doesn't read it and signs it trusting him.
The contract is actually about taking half of Anthonys earnings, and that he would be Valentino's forever.
He is forced to be a prostitute, and Vox/Valentino make money off of AngelDust making pornagraphy and being a prostitute.
Now that he is Valentinos "property" he abuses AngelDust (sexually, verbally, physically) he is facing the punishment he did to the women he saw beneath him.
His redemption would be to come to terms with his abusive habits, lack of respecting people's boundaries (men), his misogynistic views on women, and coming to terms his crimes and murder of his bestfriend/crush.
As always.
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Smity Werbenjagermanjensen
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2018
I will never stop laughing at the fact the casting calls used literal fanart, it's why most people thought they were fake when they got leaked.
Let's be honest to ourselves here, does anyone really think that Viv actually has the guts to make Alastor a real villain. Like how his inevitable betrayal of the Hotel will have major consequences such as killing off a major character? The most his betrayal will cause is some short term consequences before he realizes he's grown to like them and decides to help them. Viv can't bring herself to kill any of her OCs, and since her favorite OC is Alastor she can't bring herself to make him do anything too evil.
- Joined
- May 25, 2020
There’s a great fan-made three-dimensional model of Angel on ArtStation (requires login due to explicit artworks in the reference sheet). Looks a bit wonky in the profile shot, though Viv and her crew didn’t even try at all.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2025
I did see some of this. I dont know if it really fully counts as it still looks like the side profile of his face, and doesn't fully put in account his hair being forward to the viewer. It does look nice however, it's just off putting as it's the standard 3/4 shot.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
Who was the lackey? Was it Travis? *Please say it was Travis lmao*
Jokes aside, from old drawings and live stream doodles, it seems like the two were going to have more to do with each other than what we actually got. Not with Travis becoming a porn director for Valentino. God I hated that. The whole point was that Angel Dust was sleeping with nobodies in the pilot to pay for his drug habit since he wasn't getting enough from his current job.
- Joined
- May 25, 2020
True. I figured that by every single shot of his head in the preview renders being those exact 3/4 shots. I guess animating him in 3D would cause his head to shift between two models, one being for profile shots and the other one being for the front ones.
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- Joined
- Jan 8, 2023
LoL,
Wait, I thought it was:
Rosie = Lilith
Lilith = Eve
Who is fake? There's a third one? Who is a third person here?
Don't get me started on C.H.E.R.U.B vs Heaven. How does one heaven work? Are they the same timeframe?
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2018
I mean Eve is the one carrying Roo in her based on leaks so Roo is within Eve who is pretending to be Lilith. So you're still right.
Like it lines up with Viv's own statement of her hyping up Season 3 as it is likely that season where Roo will be revealed as Season 2 is dealing with the Vee's and giving more information on Lilith and Eve. Season 3 will likely focus on the Fake Lilith (Eve) who will probably bring out Roo, since Roo is supposed to be the "Root of all evil" and based on the design Vivzie drew, it looks like a parasite that came out of a body of a woman.
Yeah I see Alastor as more likely a villain who will probably be talked down by Charlie. Like I think the most she'll have Alastor be is a villain for like 1 season and try to give him a redemption arc since she does want Hazbin to have 6 seasons. Since Vivzie really loves to get the reactions from her fandom and people at large so she'd stick to making him evil so she can get some fluff piece articles glazing her for how Alastor is a good villain, then redeem him because her fans would hype that shit up.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2018
... the front kinda looks like a spider if it had no multiple eyes.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2018
Two things:
1. The imps are too much a pain to fight to get it done before Extermination Day. The Exorcists have these drone cameras and likely use them to scout where the biggest concentrations of Sinners are.
2.. The Exorcists patrol the area during E-Day in case Sinners get the bright idea to hide there. For world-building purposes, I'd say this is done as a punishment like latrine duty because it's usually boring, humiliating (as the Hellborn are sure to mock the Exorcists for being here), and the few Sinners they do find tend to be in no state of running or fighting.
EDIT: Doublepost, my bad.
I see your point and agree, Alastor is a darling that cannot be killed, but it’s less about a 1:1 replacement and more a case of introducing the villain in a timely manner in a way that makes actual sense and is relevant to the plot. Yeah, I know the plot leaks, but as stated before, those are stupid. Beyond stupid actually. On both ends of the spectrum for both Lilith being Rosey and Eve being Roo and Lilith in Heaven.
Let’s be real here, normal people will not be digging into this shit so it’s not like they’ll know who Roo is before hand, so when Roo has her little reveal, the reaction will be tepid at best. However, introduce Roo somewhere in the first season, the tail end of things would work best after small silhouette build ups throughout episodes. Roo tells Charlie that unlike Alastor, she believes in her dream 100% and is willing to help her achieve it no matter what. Roo is spewing utter bullshit. but at least she is now present. Then make it seem that she has a bone to pick with everyone involved in the story of creation, save for Adam, and make it so that she especially despises Eve (she hates herself for betraying Adam. It is her greatest regret. So, she has nothing kind to say about herself) You can have her have the tiff with the Devil instead of Alastor, because she’s Eve, of course she’d want to tell the duck-fucker to get fucked, and she’d have Alastor say that Charlie calls him Daddy all the time. Usually at night. This is nothing more than Roo wanting to piss Luci off, and loving every moment she succeeds. And no matter what he tries, Big L can’t do anything to either for some reason.
You could still keep in Alastor in the story with the initial show up, who she initial uses to get her and Charlie introduced, by sending him to fund the hotel, having him prove himself useful enough to Charlie, before introducing the both of them, with Alastor calling Roo the woman he owes everything. You can still have him turn from Roo after a betrayal, because he cares about them/Charlie (I say Charlie because I am desperately trying to try and make him care about the others, but I am having difficulty working that out.) more then he allies himself with Roo and her master Plan. You can re-work Alastor’s back story as well as why he’s so powerful, to something less “Made a deal for it”, too more found a kindred spirit in Roo and vice versa and learned from her, though it was a long and arduous process. Co-Conspirator/Apprentice/Right Hand whatever you want to call it.
With this in-place, you have a question as to why she’s so knowledgeable about things no one from her cover time frame should know (She says she was religious on Earth so that’s why) and why does she baby Adam and shit on Eve Luci and Lilith so much? Why, like Alastor, no one recognizes her outside of “Bitch is absurdly powerful” and “She just kinda appeared one day”? Why does she seem to hate Charlie’s parents but is so willing to help her with her redemption plan?
You also have a a payoff when it’s revealed she’s Eve and answers that make sense. How does she know things? She’s Eve, she was there, it happened to her, and she hates the story they tell to absolve themselves of any wrong doing. In her eyes, Adam is the victim through it all, and she and the other two are the bad guys. Hell, you can say she never lied. Of course she’s religious, when you’re the mother of humanity, and met Angels, it’s hard not to be. Why is she so powerful? She ate the fruit and since Luci wasn’t there for her like he’d been for Lilith, it gave her true unadulterated knowledge and insight into Good and Evil, and Heaven and Hell’s nature and being that allowed her to use that knowledge to become powerful, but only after she died and her soul was free from the limitations her physical mind. Why is she helping Charlie? That stupid bitch is the linchpin to her entire scheme for revenge.
Roo’s goal is simple, she wants to destroy the two people (L & L) that ruined her entire life, the world, and most importantly, hurt her husband and doomed their children and decedents, because they needed to make sure she and Adam were as miserable as they were. You can even sprinkle in little remarks of her essentially calling bullshit whenever Charlie or another character talk about the creation story that Charlie knows or Vaggie‘s view on Heaven, because Hell is just so much better with all the drugs, rape and murder.
Now, why was she working with Charlie? She is gently pushing Charlie and Hell to provoke Heaven in order to force Heaven’s hand to do the one thing she now thinks should have been done the moment L & L had their little temper tantrums and rebelled: eradicate them, and all of Hell, including herself. Prune the flower, bring on the Rapture, and do a reset on humanity so that this time, when the garden is made, there is no serpent nor is there a treacherous bitch that ruins paradise because her husband, who she never deserved by the way, mildly tut-tuted her when he was showing her the ropes in Eden. This is easily done when like a Real Morningstar, Charlie fights the power after being told no by people that literally know better than her, and then overlords jump on the chance to attack Heaven once they see that Angels can be killed.
Now this is me working in the confines of the beats for both Season 1 + 2, so it’s weaker, than what Re(runner) is doing with HB, I’ll admit.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2024
THE TINY LEGS
Also can be used as a trap to lure his victims because of the fake cuteness so very cool
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
She wanted so bad for the Vees to be in season 1, fuck the pacing or the plot priorities.
Don't worry I'm sure this is something that the actual writers of the show will also run into, and like everything else we the audience probably will write something better than what ends up happening.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2025
Thanks I thought it would be a good idea that when his prey gets close his little legs wrap around them, so he can bite them and inject them with poison.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
@Re(Runner)48 has inspired me to do my own redesign/retake on a character. I'm going to be honest and I admit that I have never drawn in the HH/HB style before besides that Beezlebub redesign a did a while back. And because I don't want to spend anymore time on something that is supposed to be done quickly for fun, this is a rough and pretty shitty sketch based on an old Vivziepop drawing:
This is Re(Runner)48's Angel Dust with his lackey; Travis. I actually like Travis' original design, so I didn't change much except for a new wardrobe change to reflect that of a 40s taxi driver, and that his eye looks like a target that is costantly bleeding where Angel Dust shot him at.
Travis has managed to keep a low-profile in Hell as he is still very much afraid of Angel Dust finding him. Only to later see what has become of Angel Dust and being owned by Valentino. While there is a huge sesne of relief, he also can't help but feel pity towards Angel Dust. This man was his boss at one point in their lives, and even though he is very much terrified by him, he also has huge respect for him and did see him as a close friend.
Now this is where the story has two differing paths it can take. If Travis met his wife outside of his life of crime, when she died she would have went up to Heaven. So when Travis hears about the Princess of Hell making a hotel to redeem Sinners, he joins because he desperately wants to see his wife again. With Angel Dust also at the hotel, you can expect many conflicts to ensue between them. But also a lot of growth to happen as their they rekindle their bond, and Angel Dust slowly learning to become a better person towards Travis.
If Travis met his wife in the crime life, she would end up in Hell with him (she would be a Cat Sinner to offset Travis being a Bird Sinner). The main conflict here would be Travis wanting to help Angel Dust as he still cares for him, while his wife is very much against the idea. Not only because of the pain Angel Dust has casued Travis, but the fact that he has hurt her as well. She strongly believes that Angel Dust can not and will not change his ways, and Angel Dust will have to prove to them both that he is becoming a better person.
This is Re(Runner)48's Angel Dust with his lackey; Travis. I actually like Travis' original design, so I didn't change much except for a new wardrobe change to reflect that of a 40s taxi driver, and that his eye looks like a target that is costantly bleeding where Angel Dust shot him at.
Travis has managed to keep a low-profile in Hell as he is still very much afraid of Angel Dust finding him. Only to later see what has become of Angel Dust and being owned by Valentino. While there is a huge sesne of relief, he also can't help but feel pity towards Angel Dust. This man was his boss at one point in their lives, and even though he is very much terrified by him, he also has huge respect for him and did see him as a close friend.
Now this is where the story has two differing paths it can take. If Travis met his wife outside of his life of crime, when she died she would have went up to Heaven. So when Travis hears about the Princess of Hell making a hotel to redeem Sinners, he joins because he desperately wants to see his wife again. With Angel Dust also at the hotel, you can expect many conflicts to ensue between them. But also a lot of growth to happen as their they rekindle their bond, and Angel Dust slowly learning to become a better person towards Travis.
If Travis met his wife in the crime life, she would end up in Hell with him (she would be a Cat Sinner to offset Travis being a Bird Sinner). The main conflict here would be Travis wanting to help Angel Dust as he still cares for him, while his wife is very much against the idea. Not only because of the pain Angel Dust has casued Travis, but the fact that he has hurt her as well. She strongly believes that Angel Dust can not and will not change his ways, and Angel Dust will have to prove to them both that he is becoming a better person.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2019
Way I would have it done with Alastor, is...okay there's a manga series called GetBackers and in it, there's a character called Dr.Jackal, he's an unrepentant bastard. Like, he literally kills people for his own amusement and only accepts jobs if he can find enjoyment out of a fight. He does help the main cast on several occasions and even joins fights with them, but by all accounts he's a villain and he never shows remorse for his actions. Even during a final fight when the fate of the world is decided, he still fights the main characters, because he wishes to have a good time an test his limitsm, finally accepting death with a smile. That's how I'd go with Alastor in a way.
Funny thing, what you described I remember reading in that "Hazbin Journey to the Light" fanwikia, which is kinda interesting how seems this is the idea fans with for Roo and Alastor.