Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

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Do you believe that this series will turn to shit?

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A Very Big Fish said:
No one bothered trying to be a half decent person for several thousands of years, and the characters in the show have only bothered to start when they were effectively forced to,

I wonder why heaven's residents may be cynical.
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Did Charlie even make any attempts to make Hell a better place for Sinners? Most of their suffering seems to come from each other than from the angels. There's an extermination that happens every year for the past 7 years, so besides the 7 days of their now immortal lives they are free to do what they want to do. You think Charlie would try to help out from the actual source where many of her people's issues come from.

But now it's been revealed that Charlie only made the hotel to redeem Sinners so that she could bring her mommy back. So maybe she doesn't care about her people this much.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
Did Charlie even make any attempts to make Hell a better place for Sinners? Most of their suffering seems to come from each other than from the angels. There's an extermination that happens every year for the past 7 years, so besides the 7 days of their now immortal lives they are free to do what they want to do. You think Charlie would try to help out from the actual source where many of her people's issues come from.

But now it's been revealed that Charlie only made the hotel to redeem Sinners so that she could bring her mommy back. So maybe she doesn't care about her people this much.
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I always thought it'd be clever if Charlie's actual motivation for the hotel was that she wanted to get to Heaven and although she hid it from everyone really resented the fact that she was in Hell for no reason other than her parents living there.
 
Nonga Tork said:
I always thought it'd be clever if Charlie's actual motivation for the hotel was that she wanted to get to Heaven and although she hid it from everyone really resented the fact that she was in Hell for no reason other than her parents living there.
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I think it can be both-genuine compassion+s.th as egotistical as making her uncaring? mother finally call her back.

Egoistic altruism.
 
Nonga Tork said:
I always thought it'd be clever if Charlie's actual motivation for the hotel was that she wanted to get to Heaven and although she hid it from everyone really resented the fact that she was in Hell for no reason other than her parents living there.
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Honestly, they should have made charlie a false good person.
Think of mister beast, who has been accused of being a philantrophe not out of genuine love toward humanity, but rather as a way to earn more money and popularity.
Also activists/celebrities that protest for humanitarian casues because they are paid for when they themselves would commit/ignore the same shit minutes before because they weren't pait for.
i.e.: katy perry calling out global warming AFTER coming back from her private journey into space; have her deal with this kind of hyocrite shit, maybe unintentionally even and being forced to aknowledge it by her close friends or realizing it herself, but also understanding that her close friends are also enablers that never contested charlie doing this kind of shit.
Although I can see an issue with this idea, and its that neither the jewish overlords at amazon, nor the hollywood complex would ever approves this kind of criticism: the jewish overlords have spent decades crafting libtard acktivists for their gay causes of castrating the spawn of Yakub, while hollywood doesn't allow for any criticism that isn't a considerably pulled punch or something they can actually be blamed someone else for.
 
Strangolapreti said:
Honestly, they should have made charlie a false good person.
Think of mister beast, who has been accused of being a philantrophe not out of genuine love toward humanity, but rather as a way to earn more money and popularity.
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I think the best move is to split the difference. Charlie's plan is self serving, she wants to see her mother, and she wants out of hell. But I think it can also be that its not purely selfish. I don't think her wanting to find her mother has no redeeming factor, or just wanting to go somewhere better, especially since its at least different to want to leave hell because you were born there then trying to escape the consequences of a life poorly lived.

I think the importance though is to have her and the story acknowledge the self serving aspects, and let Charlie grow and either re-evaluate her plans or to make new, more honest ones.

In the Leave ending of Silent Hill 2, there is a great scene, where the protagonist, James who has been tormented by the titular town for murdering his wife, he finally talks to her spirit, he admits that while he had told himself that he was basically euthanizing his wife to save her pain, he finally confesses to her, "The truth is... I hated you. I wanted you out of the way; I wanted my life back!" and the spirit of his wife asks him, "James... If that were true, then why do you look so sad?" and its the only unambiguous ending, where James is able to leave Silent Hill and seemingly move on with his life in a healthy way. And the reason it works is because we've seen that James did care enough for his wife to try and save her when he thinks she's in danger, and while coming to terms with the ugly truth that while caring for his dying wife he grew to resent her, Mary's spirit also points out that he wasn't just a 1-dimensional murderer, but a good man who did something terrible, and the letter that brought James to the town is revealed to be Mary apologizing for how she felt that she became such a burden. And its just a story of two very broken people finding a way to forgive each other.
 
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So if we do see Stolas' mom in season 3, who wants to bet that she was a good mother that tragically died? There's a track record.
 
Strangolapreti said:
the tits and belly are just vile tho.
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I mean ... that's like the point, it was actually supposed to look like more Giger than Viv's artstyle because that guy actually could draw demons that look demonic.

baphomet.webp
And I don't know, I recently came across an online discussion where someone suggested that Queen Bee actually might not be that nice since she possible didn't warn Blitzo because she cared about him but was just annoyed at Blitzo's behaviour ruining the mood of her party.
And even that mild take made people freak out, so honestly I just want to have some demons that actually look like hideous monsters for the love of god.

Strangolapreti said:
Women, am I right?
How exactly did she caused his fall from grace? Opening an onlyfans account? Sending his husband to dennys while she fucked the lord of cockroaches? a war against the archdemon who's responsable for each and every murder and assassination committed in history, Sam Hyde?
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I mean I wanted to keep it short and less autistic but if you specifically ask, since my take was mostly a fusion of the Book of Enoch and the Baal Cycle the most obvious idea was that she could take on some aspects from Baal's sister Anat.

named Anat who was like a more deranged version of Kali and often helped him when he got his ass kicked.
Now thinking about it if Viv wanted the armies of heaven to be led by a maniac she could have actually introduced her as a hired military member, which would be fitting since she is an ax crazy demon slayer and could simply be explained to have never died as an immortal instead of opening the entire can of worms why the fuck Adam could got to heaven if he is an asshole, she also would have had immediately more depth since she was actually seen as a helpful protector deity despite her psychotic tendencies. But I mean nobody in the writing team probably knows that Belzebub has a sister in the first place so what I'm even saying here.

So anyways my take: Book of Watchers happens, some angels bang women and get kicked out of heaven, one of their great sons becomes a powerful ruler, heaven finds out about it but lets him stay in his position since he is actually a pretty chill guy, Baal cycle happens, Leviathan starts to drown the world, Baal gets his ass kicked, Nasu puts his corpse back together with flies, he manages to transform into a nearly complete Cherubim (with only three heads, arms and wings however), beats Leviathan, heaven gets mad about his involvement with a demon, he leaves his kingdom (because autistic greek tragedy man) and becomes general of hell's armies while still staying a more helpful entity which is the reason why many people in the bible still honored him, meanwhile his sister tells him that he's retarted and fucks off.

The entire baal cycle wonga bonga is also why my take on Baal would be still reminiscient of being a warrior storm god,
baalwing3.jpg

With three faces, arms and wings, the fancy head with a ball (lol) on the top that he always wears on old old statue depictions,
badges to showcase his military rank and a fishing spear as a reference to his defeat of Leviathan.

Though I just rembered that Leviathan in Viv's world is just a random deviantart oc, so honestly actually trying to implement mythology in the setting sets it already so far apart that I'm probably just going to run away offsite with my stuff to make my own thing anyways.

The problem with Viv really is that even if she does a reference to mythology you have no idea if it was just an accident.

For example "Satan" was actually a title and means "accuser", and was given to angelic judges (that weren't even necessary enemies of heaven) that accuse sinful mortals of their crimes.

And now with how little Viv seems to know about that stuff, I have no idea if making Satan a judge was a reference to that or just random coincidence.
 
GeorgeSmarty said:
Though I just rembered that Leviathan in Viv's world is just a random deviantart oc, so honestly actually trying to implement mythology in the setting sets it already so far apart that I'm probably just going to run away offsite with my stuff to make my own thing anyways.
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Remember when everyone thought that Leviathan was the father of Seviathan, and I thought it was kind of clever for the Von Eldritches to look similar to the Morningstars because being the sin of Envy, Leviathan would try to copy Lucifer?

Those were the days.
 
InJailOutSoon said:
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So if we do see Stolas' mom in season 3, who wants to bet that she was a good mother that tragically died? There's a track record.
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Thats the chick who played the MC in maybe the worst musical ever put on the stage 'Bad Cinderella'. Which isnt her fault but I just had to bring it up. With this that might only be her second worst role now though.

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Also Octavias actress originated the off broadway heaters veronica so makes sense they sound similar. Either way theyre gonna have her sing and Carries roles are usually sympathetic main girl so hopes of it being a baller villain number are low.
 
Something I have been wondering about: If hell is separated into seven rings that are based on the seven deadly sins, is heaven seperated into seven rings that are based on the seven virtues? My best guess is that the seven virtues are less popular in pop culture than the sins so Viv doesn't knows about them and heaven just kinda exists.
 
GeorgeSmarty said:
Something I have been wondering about: If hell is separated into seven rings that are based on the seven deadly sins, is heaven seperated into seven rings that are based on the seven virtues? My best guess is that the seven virtues are less popular in pop culture than the sins so Viv doesn't knows about them and heaven just kinda exists.
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Interestingly, in the Divine Comedy, despite Hell and Purgatory being separated by the sins of the people that reside there, Hell actually has 9 layers, its not strictly based on the seven deadly sins. It also includes Limbo which is home to the unbaptized and virtuous pagans. It's not heaven, but its also nowhere near as bad as hell.

Purgatory has 7 layers, one for each deadly sin and its corresponding virtue, and souls are stuck on the level of the sins they committed, until they properly acquire the virtue. While they do suffer, unlike those in Hell, the suffering purges the sin from their souls, eventually allowing them to make it to Heaven. Throughout their time there, they're also given examples from scripture of people who embody these virtues. For example, on the Sloth layer, people are forced to run, and are to learn the virtue of Zeal, and the example given is the Virgin Mary's haste to go visit her cousin Elizabeth after the annunciation, where Mary learns she is pregnant with Christ, and Elizabeth with John the Baptist.

Heaven, in the story is actually not normally layered, though its explained that for Dante's convenience its being shown to him as if it was. And also because he seems like he's borderline having his brain melted for the entire time he's there, it was probably necessary for his well being. Its separated in part by virtue of the soul, but also by the person's role in life, and are symbolized with different celestial bodies.

For example, on The Moon, Dante speaks to a nun who gave up on her vows for political reasons. And while she is in a lower tier of heaven for doing so, she points out to Dante, that it isn't seen as worse by her or anyone in heaven. On Mercury we see people who were ruled by ambition, and Venus those who, were intemperant in how they lived the virtues. The Sun is for great theologians, and Mars is for warriors including one of Dante's crusader ancestors. Jupiter has just rulers who appear as a giant eagle, and it answers the question of what happens to people who are good but for whatever reason don't learn about Christ, one of the emperors was a pagan, though a good ruler, and God revealed himself to the emperor at his death. Saturn is for contemplatives and ascetics, the "fixed stars" (what we think of as stars, the ancients thought planets were wandering stars) is the domain of saints and martyrs, and all that is enmeshed in the Empyrean which is the divine love of God that's kind of binding it all together.

Purgatorio pride - Copy.jpg
Gustav Dore's illustration of the Pride ring of Mt. Purgatory

No, I don't think Viv is doing anything remotely as thoughtful as Dante was, but I like to sperg.
 
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"Sir, why is the embodiment of Lust is against rape, literally THE highest form of Lust, and against sexual exploitation?"

"RAAHHH, YOU DON'T GET IT, LAWYERS SAID ITS ABOUT POWER, SO IT IS DEFINITELY, ABSOLUTELY NOT LUST, AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LUST!! GET AWAY FROM MY DADDY AND HIS FFIZZYYYY CRUSH!1!1!1
 
A Very Big Fish said:
No, I don't think Viv is doing anything remotely as thoughtful as Dante was, but I like to sperg.
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I mentioned Dante's inferno way too many times in this thread, but if I didn't:
If viv was based, she would have given to people who died of suicide gnarlet horns that looks like branches, as a reference to what happens to suicide victim according to Dante.
If viv was super based, she would have given a pair of those same wooden horns to millie's sister.
 
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