likeacrackado
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2020
I've returned to see that none of you have even tried to debunk this, euphoria.
How do Protestants cope with the societies they have created?
- Thread starter mr.moon1488
- Start date
Shitposting boogeyman
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2022
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
I'm not sure I agree with your schizo theory. I do however have a schizo theory of my own.
I think a lot of American Protestantism's problem is that Protestantism has never actually run America. If you look closely at the founding fathers' lives, the monuments they built, and the organizations they were part of, you will find a substantial number of them were Freemasons. Even those who were not outright masons still lived in a milieu strongly influenced by it's ideals and values. I think America is not a Protestant country at all, but rather a Masonic country with a lot of Protestants living in it.
This is not an isolated phenomenon either. 18th and 19th century republican movements(meant here in the broader sense of "republics yay!", not necessarily the Republican party) were either directly caused by Freemasons, or strongly influenced by Masonic ideas. Simon Bolivar was an outright Freemason. Freemasonry strongly influenced the French Revolution, the Decembrists were men exposed to Masonic ideas during the campaign against France, and there were multiple Italian and Spanish secret societies with Masonic ideas as well. Prior to the invention of Communism, if there was some kind of revolutionary movement going on, chances were it was inspired by Masonic ideas and possibly directly run by Freemasons.
What are the consequences of this? For one, Freemasonry is not a Christian ideology. Christians can join it, but it is a Deist belief structure based on Western Occultism and the broader structure of the Abrahamic religions. Anyone who believes in a "Supreme Being" is eligible to join, and the French strains of Freemasonry have removed even this requirement. This means that Christians, Deists, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, and anyone else who believes in some kind of "higher being" will be accepted. It was tolerated in Protestant countries because it piggybacked the Protestant desire to question established doctrine, and to be fair, freedom of religion and freedom of conscience are core tenets of the belief system. In the early years of America, this may have been an advantage for it, since it allowed people who were nominally different strains of Protestant to work with each other without squabbling over theology. It permitted immigration from Catholic countries because it genuinely believes in freedom of religion, that all religions have core essential truths to them, and that Freemasonry reveals and elaborates that truth. Their view of the various forms of Christianity is that they are essentially religions for normalfags. If you want to know how the universe is truly structured, you have to become a Freemason. So it doesn't really matter if the peasants are Protestants, Catholics, or some other religion, as long as social order is maintained. This view is strongly incompatible with the Catholic view of the universe, in which there is a known, correct doctrine. Catholic rulers are morally obligated to promote this doctrine and actively suppress any deviations from it because if the peasants are permitted to follow the wrong religion, it risks their normie souls going to hell, and part of the ruler's responsibilities are to protect their subjects, spiritually as well as temporally. Combine this outlook with the revolutionary tendencies of Freemasonry, and you will see why Catholic rulers reflexively suppress Freemasonry. Catholics are forbidden by the Church from joining it, and normie Catholics are encouraged to be hostile to it. Freemasonry for it's part actively enforces secularism every time it gains power. It won't usually ban Catholicism because that conflicts with it's belief in freedom of religion. However, it will do all it can to limit the political power of the Catholic Church and make it one of many religions rather than the state religion. It does the same with various Protestant strains as well.
There is another aspect of Freemasonry that is important, and I think closely related to the problems of the west. Remember how it is heavily derived from western occultism? Well, that means it was strongly influenced by Kabbalah, aka, Jewish occultism/mysticism. In addition to copying many of these ideas and thought patterns, it couches them in the metaphor that you are a literally a mason working to construct the Temple of Solomon. Protestantism has Judaizing tendencies to begin with, and I think large swaths of the ruling class larping as a Jewish stonemasons metaphorically building Solomon's Temple, only reinforced those tendencies in American culture. But wait, there's more! As part of it's freedom of religion ideals, Freemasonry was probably one of the first footholds of outright Jews in western power structures. Sure, the Catholic Church and broader secular society accepted racial Jews from the earliest days, however, they had to convert to Christianity and essentially cut themselves off from the Jewish community to join. Freemasonry on the other hand, was one of the first groups to accept outright, practicing Jews, and also pushed to free Jews from the existing social and political restraints imposed on them at the time. Again, I think this partly contributed to the broader acceptance of Jews in western society, and the more extreme expression of it in American society. This in turn led to the present situation where Jews have essentially taken over western leadership.
Tl;dr: Protestantism in particular, and Christianity in general was always powerless bs for the peasants to follow, as such, specific doctrines or discipline were unimportant to the ruling class. The religion/ideals that actually run America are a mix of Freemasonry and Judaism.
This is not an isolated phenomenon either. 18th and 19th century republican movements(meant here in the broader sense of "republics yay!", not necessarily the Republican party) were either directly caused by Freemasons, or strongly influenced by Masonic ideas. Simon Bolivar was an outright Freemason. Freemasonry strongly influenced the French Revolution, the Decembrists were men exposed to Masonic ideas during the campaign against France, and there were multiple Italian and Spanish secret societies with Masonic ideas as well. Prior to the invention of Communism, if there was some kind of revolutionary movement going on, chances were it was inspired by Masonic ideas and possibly directly run by Freemasons.
What are the consequences of this? For one, Freemasonry is not a Christian ideology. Christians can join it, but it is a Deist belief structure based on Western Occultism and the broader structure of the Abrahamic religions. Anyone who believes in a "Supreme Being" is eligible to join, and the French strains of Freemasonry have removed even this requirement. This means that Christians, Deists, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, and anyone else who believes in some kind of "higher being" will be accepted. It was tolerated in Protestant countries because it piggybacked the Protestant desire to question established doctrine, and to be fair, freedom of religion and freedom of conscience are core tenets of the belief system. In the early years of America, this may have been an advantage for it, since it allowed people who were nominally different strains of Protestant to work with each other without squabbling over theology. It permitted immigration from Catholic countries because it genuinely believes in freedom of religion, that all religions have core essential truths to them, and that Freemasonry reveals and elaborates that truth. Their view of the various forms of Christianity is that they are essentially religions for normalfags. If you want to know how the universe is truly structured, you have to become a Freemason. So it doesn't really matter if the peasants are Protestants, Catholics, or some other religion, as long as social order is maintained. This view is strongly incompatible with the Catholic view of the universe, in which there is a known, correct doctrine. Catholic rulers are morally obligated to promote this doctrine and actively suppress any deviations from it because if the peasants are permitted to follow the wrong religion, it risks their normie souls going to hell, and part of the ruler's responsibilities are to protect their subjects, spiritually as well as temporally. Combine this outlook with the revolutionary tendencies of Freemasonry, and you will see why Catholic rulers reflexively suppress Freemasonry. Catholics are forbidden by the Church from joining it, and normie Catholics are encouraged to be hostile to it. Freemasonry for it's part actively enforces secularism every time it gains power. It won't usually ban Catholicism because that conflicts with it's belief in freedom of religion. However, it will do all it can to limit the political power of the Catholic Church and make it one of many religions rather than the state religion. It does the same with various Protestant strains as well.
There is another aspect of Freemasonry that is important, and I think closely related to the problems of the west. Remember how it is heavily derived from western occultism? Well, that means it was strongly influenced by Kabbalah, aka, Jewish occultism/mysticism. In addition to copying many of these ideas and thought patterns, it couches them in the metaphor that you are a literally a mason working to construct the Temple of Solomon. Protestantism has Judaizing tendencies to begin with, and I think large swaths of the ruling class larping as a Jewish stonemasons metaphorically building Solomon's Temple, only reinforced those tendencies in American culture. But wait, there's more! As part of it's freedom of religion ideals, Freemasonry was probably one of the first footholds of outright Jews in western power structures. Sure, the Catholic Church and broader secular society accepted racial Jews from the earliest days, however, they had to convert to Christianity and essentially cut themselves off from the Jewish community to join. Freemasonry on the other hand, was one of the first groups to accept outright, practicing Jews, and also pushed to free Jews from the existing social and political restraints imposed on them at the time. Again, I think this partly contributed to the broader acceptance of Jews in western society, and the more extreme expression of it in American society. This in turn led to the present situation where Jews have essentially taken over western leadership.
Tl;dr: Protestantism in particular, and Christianity in general was always powerless bs for the peasants to follow, as such, specific doctrines or discipline were unimportant to the ruling class. The religion/ideals that actually run America are a mix of Freemasonry and Judaism.
Zarael
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2020
Haven't we been getting the best results from the Supreme Court in decades with a conservative Catholic majority on it?
Copesneeddilate
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2023
Some of the protestants I met are more interested in talking about trannies so much I imagine their in the closet wanting to suck them off. Their like conservatives where they wail "oh my country, muh traditional values" when they let in illegals in that take american jobs, meanwhile shipping the wages they earn back to their families in their shithole countries.
likeacrackado
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2020
What is the dominant religion in those shithole countries?
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2023
Because it's retarded and a waste of everyone's time. You know Catholics have been in the United States since the 17th century and the SCOTUS judges that overturned Roe v. Wade were overwhelmingly Catholic right?
Speaking of immigration, what about the devout Catholics that pushed amnesty and open borders like Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama?
- Joined
- May 29, 2021
Well. I can only speak for some Protestants because protestant-ism isn't just one thing. Its a whole bunch of different things with their own perspectives and points of view.
We believe that we live in a fallen world full of sin. The state of the world is the consequence of that sin. There is no magic plan that can save the world. The only hope we have lies in the salvation we receive from christ. But salvation is an individual choice and nobody can make it for another person.
We have to do our best every day in a world full of suffering and sin. We have to do what we can to make it better. But its always going to be a mostly losing effort.
Theocratic society is wrong because salvation has to be a personal choice. Trying to use force or government to create a better world is always doomed. It will never work.
"Faith without works is dead". And I completely disagree that its about being "mindless proles". Its about doing good work, having self-discipline and the idea that one can advance in life by being productive. Its in opposition to another way of life dominated by drinking, gambling, sex and living a paycheck to paycheck life of empty hedonism.
Not true.
Don't agree with that interpretation of Timothy.
That is not correct at all either. There is endless discussion of what "kill" means in that context within churches. Switching to a different word doesn't make anything really better. And to really understand it, you have to go back to the meaning of the hebrew words rather than fret about english translations at all.
Yeah. Tarring all protestants with the brush of the non-affiliated to any particular religion faith healers on TV is far from fair. Far too many people don't understand "protestant" and simply lump everything in it to be the churches of the self-ordained lone wolf preachers.
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
protestants run the entire political spectrum, just like catholics. protestant majority countries are not the way they are because of their religious beliefs but because of the political and economic realities there. the entire reason it took off was because a lot of the nobility in NW Europe was sick of having to bow to rome for no compelling reason.
and why would you expect an american, even a religious one, to want theocracy? saying they "pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow" is a weak criticism as every denomination of every religion does that. the bible also says women are not allowed to speak in church, even to ask a relevant question. but do catholics forbid women from speaking in church? what denomination actually does? I have never heard any of the most conservative christians from any denomination rail against this.
and why would you expect an american, even a religious one, to want theocracy? saying they "pick and choose what parts of the Bible to follow" is a weak criticism as every denomination of every religion does that. the bible also says women are not allowed to speak in church, even to ask a relevant question. but do catholics forbid women from speaking in church? what denomination actually does? I have never heard any of the most conservative christians from any denomination rail against this.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2017
Hell, even the devout traditionalist Protestants in America were often so insufferable in the 80's, 90's, and 2000's that they buck broke the later generations so hard that the fundies unintentionally wound up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy when Woke became a thing once Dubya was out of office.
While you can blame Woke on shit like ESG, academic corruption, and the like, the fundies making conservatism and traditionalism so utterly vile and unappealing to most normies outside of the Bible Belt was definitely a contributing factor.
Even if you want to go full /pol/ and say "The Jews did it!" and blame it all on them, the Protestant trads and fundies definitely made the job a hell of a lot easier for the Jews to pull their slimy tricks if that's the case.
Even with all the edgelord Zoomer trad LARP'ers going "but muh Finders" and trying to simp for the Satanic Panic while sperging on about maintenance tunnels under McMartin Preschool, shit like the West Memphis Three or the more localized power of trads in the really shitty parts of the Bible Belt still stings in the memories of Gen X and the older Millennials.
Younger Millennials and older Zoomers who grew up in the Bible Belt's more hardline regions are also often still butthurt about the fundies who banned Halloween in their communities or wouldn't let them watch certain TV shows or play certain games, and while banning fun may seem like a dumb reason to go Woke in the eyes of an adult, it can have a subconscious impact on a child and affect their political views when they get older.
Lindsay Ellis is from Appalachia. As is Hope Chapman. Some of the most rabid true believer SJW zealots hail from socially conservative families in the Bible Belt.
At the very least, guys like Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, Jack Chick, Jerry Falwell, and the like all unintentionally poured a lot of gasoline onto an already raging trashfire in the long run. Even if they were well-intended, their efforts to conserve their values and fight out the previous round of the culture wars actively backfired on them in the worst possible way.
Congrats, Protestant traditionalists. You played yourselves and buck broke three entire generations into making all of your worst gloom and doom predictions of the future one of the worst cases of a self-fullfilling prophecy.
Look, I'm not evening going to get into that fundie-neocon alliance of the Reagan and Bush years or all those Evangelicals who support Israel...
If John Calvin could see the future he helped create, I wonder what he would think.
While you can blame Woke on shit like ESG, academic corruption, and the like, the fundies making conservatism and traditionalism so utterly vile and unappealing to most normies outside of the Bible Belt was definitely a contributing factor.
Even if you want to go full /pol/ and say "The Jews did it!" and blame it all on them, the Protestant trads and fundies definitely made the job a hell of a lot easier for the Jews to pull their slimy tricks if that's the case.
Even with all the edgelord Zoomer trad LARP'ers going "but muh Finders" and trying to simp for the Satanic Panic while sperging on about maintenance tunnels under McMartin Preschool, shit like the West Memphis Three or the more localized power of trads in the really shitty parts of the Bible Belt still stings in the memories of Gen X and the older Millennials.
Younger Millennials and older Zoomers who grew up in the Bible Belt's more hardline regions are also often still butthurt about the fundies who banned Halloween in their communities or wouldn't let them watch certain TV shows or play certain games, and while banning fun may seem like a dumb reason to go Woke in the eyes of an adult, it can have a subconscious impact on a child and affect their political views when they get older.
Lindsay Ellis is from Appalachia. As is Hope Chapman. Some of the most rabid true believer SJW zealots hail from socially conservative families in the Bible Belt.
At the very least, guys like Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, Jack Chick, Jerry Falwell, and the like all unintentionally poured a lot of gasoline onto an already raging trashfire in the long run. Even if they were well-intended, their efforts to conserve their values and fight out the previous round of the culture wars actively backfired on them in the worst possible way.
Congrats, Protestant traditionalists. You played yourselves and buck broke three entire generations into making all of your worst gloom and doom predictions of the future one of the worst cases of a self-fullfilling prophecy.
Look, I'm not evening going to get into that fundie-neocon alliance of the Reagan and Bush years or all those Evangelicals who support Israel...
If John Calvin could see the future he helped create, I wonder what he would think.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2020
Yes, over here in Europe we did away with most of our Churches. We converted them to Mosques, for our Muslim overlords.
Not like the Proud Yanks with the nobel legion of televangelists, creation of fucking Mormonism and Joohoos. Oh, and not forgetting the snake churches, thats in the bible, bring a snake to Sunday Service. I do enjoy watching the Priest recite morning prayer whilst juggling an angry viper.
- Joined
- May 14, 2019
How do Protestants cope with having created the wealthiest, freest, best educated, most cutting-edge technologically advanced societies (Britain and colonies, Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia, America, Switzerland)? By kicking up their feet and relaxing.
Religion is very ethnic. Romantic Europe is Catholic. Slavic Europe is Orthodox. Germanic Europe is Protestant. It could be as much the Germanic character of the north, but either way there is a notable difference in the quality of life when you cross that line.
Religion is very ethnic. Romantic Europe is Catholic. Slavic Europe is Orthodox. Germanic Europe is Protestant. It could be as much the Germanic character of the north, but either way there is a notable difference in the quality of life when you cross that line.
Otoya Yamaguchi
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2023
PyroJohn
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2023
How do Catholics cope with paying indulgences to the church?
LillWeeb
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2021
Presbyterians ( which i am one) have written articles of faith ours is called The Westminster confession of faith, Anglicans have The thirty nine articles, And to the OP Not all Protestants are woke or low IQ bumpkin baptist. There are high church, high theology Protestants that has a intelligent tradition of scholasticism for hundred of years. What Catholics and other reactionaries on this site don't get either is all the High church Protestants (Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Anglicans ) all recognize the first seven ecumenical councils, and recite the creeds each Sunday for example.
Geddy Lee's Fee and See
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2023
You can get indulgences from praying the rosary or doing good deeds. Plus, the Council of Trent pretty much cracked down on a lot of the liturgical abuses that were going on in the Catholic world at the time, hence the it being called the beginning of the Counter-Reformation. How is it like attacking a strawman that doesn't even exist anymore? I really can't understand tradlarpers of any variety, be it Protestant,Catholic or Orthodox. They seem to be retards that are attracted to the aesthetics of being Christian rather than actually being Christian and permanently stuck in the past as well.
>France, Austria and Belgium not mentioned at all
>Lumping all of Germany into one entity instead of realizing Southern Germany was heavily Catholic
Curious. Also, you mean the same states they are actively turning into shitholes because of runaway branches of what effectively is secular high church Protestantism vs cartoonishly overzealous low church Protestantism fighting over who will flood their respective nations with more third worlders and start more proxy wars over the world for their pocket book. You can see both in the respective Democratic and Republican parties (and their analogues in these other countries). It doesn't help that they have an undying love/hate for Israel but not actually doing good deeds for the masses (let alone for individual people).
I agree with you mostly but the Finders shit was actually real. I don't believe in the Satanic Panic, but finding out the CIA actually fucked up and let a bunch of sexual predators because those sex pests were intel sources that went rouge was both hilarious as fuck and really fucking depressing seeing that glowies are fucking dumb enough to let this happen and they literally stopped any local police force who had questions from stopping them from doing this.
Mothra1988
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 27, 2021
Internet Catholics have to be the most insane group of insecure weridos we have today. I don't know why this autism picked up steam in the last three years, but Nick Fuentes is only a symptom of it.
PyroJohn
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2023
I don't know why but there has been an increase of people identifying as a "TradCaths" online in the past few years. After 2018, I have seen a lot of Zoomers on Twitter and Tiktok identifying with Catholicism.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2021
He would probably say that the Enemy knows the Scriptures better than anyone, and if he bends and twists even the Word, which he cannot break, he is certain to corrupt any philosophy or theology, which he can break. And also that as no earthly kingdom is eternal, so no earthly institution is eternal, such as a denomination, which is mostly just a group of people dedicated to the same theology. Calvin would probably say he wasn't building Calvin's church, but rather the L-rd's. As for the secular society that Protestantism built, it's an earthly kingdom, subject to rot and deterioration like any other.
Just wanted to mention Orthodox Christianity never seems to arise in these discussions. Orthodoxy divorces Catholicism, and all Catholics ever mention is how Protestantism left them and wouldn't come back. Then trad-Caths praise Russian Orthodoxy for ridiculing and resisting globohomo.
Mothra1988
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 27, 2021
The ones who push it online are arrogant and dumb as fuck. I mean I can understand if you know nothing about the negative aspects of Catholicism's history if like grew up sheltered in the Philippines Catholic school system or something, but these idiots are American and are so deluded they think the Reformation was actually a bad thing. Not to mention their criticisms of "fundies" are the exact ones copy and pasted from Gen X liberals but with the massive cognitive dissonance from the fact they advocate for even dumber ideological politics masquerading as right wing.