How do we solve the problem of Islam without violence or acceptance of there intolerant views?

[Slap47]

People always think that there's one denomination of islam that wouldn't be shit. They're wrong. Even sufism, even ahmadiyya... it may seem like better versions of islam, but it is still worse than every other type of denomination that isn't islam.

I don't care if they're shit. As long as they aren't violent retards.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I don't care if they're shit. As long as they aren't violent exceptional individuals.

Their most exalted example of morality was a warlord.... so good luck with that.

 

[Recoil]

You don't solve Islam, it's an inherently oppositional ideology.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Hold them to the same standard as everyone else. It worked for America. The problem isn't Islam, it's Islam+a cowardly, spineless police force not interested in actually dealing with crime.

 

[Basil II]

Conversion away from Islam, Islam is a dying horrorcow of a """"religion"""" that vents it's death and frustrations with violence.

All the galaxy brained people saying Islam isn't the problem don't understand Islam. Islam literally says if you try to reform it or change it in any way that you're an apostate who should be murdered to protect the word of Allah (Which they literally see the Quran as, they take it completely literally and changing it to them is altering the literal word of God) How are you supposed to reform it when fucking Salafis and ISIS types are literally scripturally correct? Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a fucking PhD in Islamic Studies and you're gonna tell me you know more about Islam than him?

Look at Turkey, it went through centuries of Ottoman rule, In the Ottoman Empire, Islam didn't rule, the house of Osman did. Turkey was further secularized by Ataturk who's been mythologized in Turkey as a hero, and he was a fucking Atheist. You wanna know what's happening today? Not even a century after Turkey removed Islam and secularized? Erdogan is larping as an Ottoman Sultan and destroying the secularization.

This isn't even the only time this has happened. Throughout the entire Middle East, during the Cold War era most countries were secular Arab Nationalists, that were only successful because they were propped up by the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. and now that the Cold War is over, those nations have fallen apart in revolt and cucked during the Arab spring.
Nasser's dream is dead. We've already tried secularizing and it didn't work. It just lead to the Islamic revolution in Iran and the Arab spring.

Why necessarily Christianity? Are Hinduism or Buddhism or even atheism not sufficient?

>Hinduism
A pagan """"""religion"""""" that is closely linked with the Indian Subcontinent, good luck exporting that, I'm sure Muslims would love being told that they should worship a giant elephant, because Islam makes people so receptive to Paganism and Polytheism. How much good would that really do when you're just replacing Genocidal Jihadis with Street shitters who lick cow shit and practice slavery on the lower castes. Not to mention Hinduism has literally no history of missionaries and spreading the word.
>Buddhism
Has a lot of left over pagan shit from Hinduism that's gonna make it impossible to convert, see above.
>Atheism
Yeah cause we need even more nihilistic edgelords who replace religion with their political ideologies and get triggered whenever someone disagrees with them.

Christianity makes by far the most sense for multiple reasons.

It has an actual history in the region, before the Arab conquests everywhere between Tangiers and Ctesiphon was Christian, with Christianity also cucking Zoroastrianism in Persia. Hinduism has literally nothing to do with the region and Buddhism only existed in Afghanistan which is very far from the Middle East proper.

There's an actual sizable Christian minority that could support it, Egypt has 20 million Christians who have endured 1,300 years of oppression and abuse, and today have to deal with the neglect from their supposed fellow Christians in Europe who couldn't give less of a shit about them. There are multiple nations in the Middle East that are majority Christian like Armenia, Georgia, Ethiopia and Lebanon.

Christianity is one of the only other religions that Islam shows a modicum of respect for, considering Islam sees itself as the successor to Christianity. Muslims pretend every Christian before the Council of Nicaea was actually a Muslim, which is the same shit that American Evangelicals say. They're already half way there! Jesus Christ is one of the most venerated Prophets in Islam and Mary is literally seen as the holiest woman who has ever existed.

Most of Islam is ripped off from Christianity as well, it's just Christianity imbued with Muhammad's greed and narcissism which is why it's so similar to Mormonism, In the Medieval Era Islam was seen in Europe as a Christological heresy related to Arianism, Dante's Divine Comedy references Islam and Muhammad calling him a schismatic similar to Arius and Nestorius and their ancient heresies.

Christianity is probably the only religion that's been successful at converting Muslims, see the Reconquista, the Norman conquest of Sicily, The Balkan wars, and Russia's conversion of the Tatars. Islam fucking melts when they're put on an equal playing field with Christianity. Why would you wanna be part of a cult where you get raped and killed for taking a ninja outfit off when you could just convert away with the state protecting you?

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

A pagan """"""religion""""""

What do you mean by this? Is Hinduism some sort of false religion by your standards?

lick cow shit

Pretty sure Hindus don't do that.

 

[Basil II]

What do you mean by this? Is Hinduism some sort of false religion by your standards?

Pretty sure Hindus don't do that.

It's a pagan polytheistic religion, according to Islam pagans are absolutely haram and literally the worst thing in the world. It's not really a religion in the same sense that Christianity and Islam are.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

It's a pagan polytheistic religion, according to Islam pagans are absolutely haram and literally the worst thing in the world. It's not really a religion in the same sense that Christianity and Islam are.

Hinduism is more henotheistic or monistic, to be exact, instead of hard polytheistic. To vastly oversimplify it: Hinduism has an ultimate reality (Brahman) that comes in multiple different forms for a variety of belief systems (Trimurti, Tridevi, Maha Ganesha, Krishna, Adi Parashakti, etc.), allowing for much religious pluralism and tolerance to take place.

I'm currently looking at the interaction between Hindus and Muslims in India, to get a better idea of how Muslims and Hindus tolerate each other.

 

[MW 002]

Just ban Shariah Law in every first world country and most will just fuck off back to their homelands

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

My man, eventually someone is going to end up wiping them out. Probably the Chinese. My prediction? No one will be too broken up about it when it happens.

Except for all the little commie shits that are trying to complain about the Chinese rounding up Ugyurs, and bitching that the Buddhists that have been preyed on by Muslims finally had enough, and are ready to push the Muslims directly into the sea, sure, no one is broken up over it.

I'm going to be neg rated, but fuck it, I'm so tired of reading this same thread with the same comments in in every time, so here comes my hot take.

The problem is not Islam nor is it the people themselves. To massively oversimplify: it is instead the increasing proliferation of extremism an issue which has been exacerbated countries jostling to become the dominant regional power and by an entire generation of Arabs growing up in countries who's institutions and economies have been ravaged by decades of sectarian violence, civil war, and disastrously handled foreign interventions. This by no means excuses terrorism or violence, but it does explain it better than the standard MUSLIM MAN BAD I always see in Deep Thoughts or A&H.

Muslims are scripturally commanded to forcibly convert non-believers, and kill any that refuse; that includes members of other sects, because the Qur'an is the perfect word of Allah, as communicated to a paedophile warlord, and cannot be altered. You can look up the Pew Research data on how 2nd-gen Muslims in the UK are more conservative, more supportive of a Caliphate, more supportive or terrorism, and less supportive of personal liberties, and see that the problem is pretty clearly Islam, and not anything else.

Sort of a powerlevel - I've worked with guys that knew Muslims dudes that had daughters married to viciously abusive Muslim men from the same region or nation of origin, and in almost every case, the Muslim father had been at some point asked why he tolerated a dude beating his daughter, often to the point of hospitalization. The answer always had the same underlying message - "I'd rather my daughter die a proper Muslim wife, than be married to kaffir."

Just ban Shariah Law in every first world country and most will just fuck off back to their homelands

It's banned by law in every country in North America, and the only one they aren't trying to get into is Mexico, which is famously as much of a shithole with zero welfare as their own shitholes. Funny how it's consistently the countries with welfare they seem to be attracted to, and nowhere else.

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

Pretty sure Hindus don't do that.

They're known to use cow urine and feces in various rituals that involve physical contact with and occasionally ingestion of these substances. IIRC some of them "baptize" kids for good luck by putting their heads in cow pies.

Hindus are kind of nuts. The cow fetish isn't even the craziest shit they do - that dubious honor would go to the absurd fucking caste system.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

They're known to use cow urine and feces in various rituals that involve physical contact with and occasionally ingestion of these substances. IIRC some of them "baptize" kids for good luck by putting their heads in cow pies.

Hindus are kind of nuts. The cow fetish isn't even the craziest shit they do - that dubious honor would go to the absurd fucking caste system.

Links please? The closest I could find was the usage of cow urine for medicinal purposes and using cow shit as fuel for sacred fires.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Links please?

Best part. Buying cow urine in a store:

 

[Basil II]

It's banned by law in every country in North America, and the only one they aren't trying to get into is Mexico, which is famously as much of a shithole with zero welfare as their own shitholes. Funny how it's consistently the countries with welfare they seem to be attracted to, and nowhere else.

Oh God I would love to see ISIS try to invade Mexico.
>Get to Mexico
>Get mugged for their bombs
>Police Officer rolls up, ISIS gives up their life savings to make him go away
>Defeated and humiliated decide to rape the first person they see
>First person they see is with the Cartel
>Get captured by the Cartel
>Mutilated and beheaded

 

[Black Waltz]

you can't, all you can do is invest in bitcoin and move to siberia

 

[maalikthefakemuzzie]

There is nothing wrong with islam.

 

[Smoothie Queen]

Probably going to get rated down into oblivion but I honestly don't see that much difference between extreme Islam and extreme Christianity or Judaism. They all source from the same place and the same beliefs, they all promote similar attitudes, and they all have blood on their metaphorical hands. Religious extremism needs to be addressed in a way that takes power away from all Abrahamic religions, because they all have way too much power, which only enables and emboldens extremists.

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

Probably going to get rated down into oblivion but I honestly don't see that much difference between extreme Islam and extreme Christianity or Judaism. They all source from the same place and the same beliefs, they all promote similar attitudes, and they all have blood on their metaphorical hands. Religious extremism needs to be addressed in a way that takes power away from all Abrahamic religions, because they all have way too much power, which only enables and emboldens extremists.

They do stem from more or less the same place, yes. That being said, their respective "evolutionary paths" are fairly different and they all have different purposes, so to speak.

Christianity (the middle child) is, by and large, the religion most receptive to progressive reform. This is likely tied to the fact that it's also incredibly fractious, with dozens and dozens of variations and denominations. Christianity can be tailored into a religion of war, but it is not really designed explicitly for the purpose. Many people cite the Crusades as evidence the Christians are just as bloodthirsty as anyone else - and they fail to remember that the first Crusade was the Pope at the time getting incredibly upset about Seljuk Turks (I think) sacking caravans headed to the Holy Land and murdering pilgrims, and saying "OK, every God-fearing man pick up your damn sword and go collect some heads until they realize we're not to be fucked with." Other Crusades tend to be less defensible, and the outcome of even the first Crusade wasn't exactly a feather in Christianity's cap, but intent counts for something.

Judaism (the eldest) is interesting because it is not particularly missionary in nature. Jews don't really actively seek converts. This is because Judaism is almost as much a tribe (of "God's Chosen") as it is a religion, and honestly they don't always like sharing their cool kids club. Jewish kings of yore were surprisingly bloodthirsty. David himself put more people to the sword than you might think (and then he demanded their foreskins be cut off, what the fuck dude). Judaism's relationship with their God is different as well - one of their most notable figures is actually Jacob, a trickster by nature. Reforms and denominations of Judaism exist, but for the most part they are way less fractious than Christians. Jews can and do occupy a superposition of secularity and religiosity depending on who you talk to. It's strange. They're kind of strange.

Islam (the baby of the bunch) is most notable because it is the Abrahamic that is codified to facilitate using dogma for straight-up war and conquest of unbelievers. Christianity, for the most part, wants to pester you into being its friend. Judaism wants little to do with you. Islam shouts "CONVERT OR DIE" in your face. Islam is somewhat fractious, surprisingly, as there are Sunnis and Shia, and then you have Sufi mystics, and numerous other more locally-oriented schools, traditions and customs, and of course the reformed ex-warmongering-villain-who-actually-is-an-OK-guy sect in the Ahmadiyya (who are treated as heretics by everyone else, of course). Offshoots like Baha'i exist, but not many people know a damn thing about Baha'i anyway. Islam is the religion that reformed in full reverse - it got angrier and fightier with the advent of Salafism and Wahhabism.

 

[maalikthefakemuzzie]

Islam does not advocates warfare because the other side has opposing viewpoints. Warfare is only allowed if the opponents attack first. This is the first verse that talks about warfare.
"Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory."
-22:39

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

Islam does not advocates warfare because the other side has opposing viewpoints. Warfare is only allowed if the opponents attack first. This is the first verse that talks about warfare.
"Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory."
-22:39

Your thought leaders disagree with you. Brave man, risking a fatwah like that. Maybe you could be friends with Salman Rushdie?