How do you fight depression? - Let's help each other

[Ultrapenguin]

To the saffron and turmeric (the former I know lowers blood pressure, which is probably good, and the latter of which I'm told does lots of good things but I can't vouch for as well empirically) as well as stuff that contains omega 3s (so seafood. I've heard conflicting accounts about how effective just taking fish oil is, so just eat a couple sardines every day or something if you want to be safe) N-acetylcysteine is one that's odd in that beyond the huge number of physical uses it has, it has been shown to be very effective in treating all sorts of psychological conditions, especially very tough ones like autism, tourettes, and in compulsive behaviors like dermo/trichotillomania.
The reason it does such an absurd amount of shit is because primarily it boosts the levels of one of the body's most important antioxidant players, glutathione.

Spoiler

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2009/0801/p265.html

Like I said, it helps autists, and it helps neurotics, so it should be popular around these parts. Thanks to @The Littlest Shitlord for bringing it up in a random post years back.

This is just personal guesswork, but I think an important element there is co-administration with B12, since the various cobalamins (cyanocobalamin, preferably methylcobalamin, most preferably thiocobalamin if you have access to lab chemicals I guess) play some role in intracellular antioxidant function which I'm not really familiar with. All I know is coadministration with B12 seems to improve efficacy considerably.

The problem is it's gotten harder to get because the FDA is fucking with it. It isn't technically supposed to be sold as a supplement because it isn't naturally occurring (realistically I'm guessing it's because retards started panic buying up pallets of it during covid for its respiratory benefits and the FDA was mad that a patent-able substance was being bought over the counter and pharmaceutical companies were getting cut out of the deal), so now amazon doesn't sell it anymore, but other sites do.


Also if you're especially motivated you can try growing broccoli sprouts. When they're newly sprouted they've got a bunch of sulforophane in them, it's another antioxidant that's kind of coming to attention recently (also helps autists); it's a very potent anti-cancer agent, and you can just get a big bag of seeds and make them yourself. If you want you can dry them out for long term storage/use. Chew some up very well every day and throw it down with mustard. Tbh it's nice growing things too, so it's alright.

Spoiler

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6815645/

The point is that by now I'm pretty sure it's accepted science that the symptoms of depression are usually sickness behaviors arising from inflammation/hypsersensitized immune response, which itself probably arises from chronic psychosocial stress, lack of exercise, poor diet, etc. and I think the role of the immune system and oxidative stress extends to more complex disorders adjacent to OCD.

Spoiler

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6658985/

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-200

So even if I'm wrong on the specifics, I think I feel confident saying that you should look to inflammation, oxidative stress, and immune function as a major player in the symptoms of clinical depression and most likely in a lot of the symptoms of mental decline with age, and go from there. Don't tell anyone.

ETA: Oh, and see how you feel about green tea. It's supposed to be really good for you; I'm not sure if that's clinically proven, but it's also just a nice beverage.

 

[Chump]

This is not health advice but this is coming from a university student. I have a really big sad drunk every few months. I don't drink often and I don't happen to uncork my emotions to often because no one cares. So I will sometimes find my self at 3 am like tonight drinking by myself wondering what the fuck is wrong with me and what I can do better about myself. This usually has me good for about 3-6 months depending how heavy those months have been.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

@Uberpenguin, thanks for reminding me that this thread exists. I would have replied earlier, but I was trying to find an interesting paper I read about NAC a few years ago. I can't find it, and I'm guessing it was retracted, since it stated that most NAC was converted into sulforaphane upon uptake into cells and subsequent research hasn't confirmed this. Probably, they used a test that couldn't distinguish between sulforaphane, and the other sulfanes with antioxidant activity that it is now known that some NAC is converted into.

Anyway, yes, NAC does boost glutathione synthesis by upregulating NRF2, and some NAC is converted into glutathione, as the supply of available cysteine is usually but not always the rate-limiting nutrient for glutathione synthesis. And yes, low glutathione does cause mental health problems. In particular, low vitamin E is associated with obsessive thoughts and behavior, but supplementing with just vitamin E doesn't actually help, suggesting that the break in the antioxidant chain in autism, OCD, etc is at an earlier point. (When a molecule of vitamin E performs its antioxidant function, it assumes a different, inactive form, which must interact with a molecule of vitamin C to be restored. Vitamin C in turn assumes the inactive form of dehydroascorbic acid, and must interact with a molecule of glutathione to be restored.) Thus NAC is helpful for mental disorders associated with mental rigidity such as autism, OCD, alcoholism (see the Patrick Tomlinson thread for an amazing display of rigid obsession by an alcoholic), and other addictions.

But that isn't the only way in which NAC works. Some NAC ends up converted into cystine, the oxidized dimer form of the amino acid cysteine, which affects the brain in another way: it activates the cystine-glutamate antiporter in neurons, causing glutamate to be dumped out of the neuron into the bloodstream at the same time that cystine is taken up. The reason that this is important is that is because glutamate is a major excitory neurotransmitter, and it is present in detrimental excess levels in certain mental illnesses. High levels of ammonia are associated with a disturbed ratio of glutamate to GABA (a major inhibitory neurotransmitter and neuroprotectant), found in autism, migraine headache, some forms of schizophrenia, and some forms of major depression (where high levels of ammonia in the brain cause dangerous levels of quinolinic acid, which causes excitotoxicity). It is also possible to buy bulk cystine powder directly, although it isn't as widely sold as NAC is yet.

One source of ammonia is candida gut yeast, which releases it to makes the gut less acidic. This is an infection, and NAC's antioxidant activity helps the immune system fight infections. Thus, by helping fight gut infections such as candida and clostridia which produce multiple toxins that adversely affect brain functioning in numerous ways, this is yet another way in which NAC helps mental health.

As you can see, NAC is of tremendous benefit for a wide variety of conditions. It's a shame that the FDA is trying to keep it from us. I believe that it is because people are successfully using it to treat COVID-19. You can see that they've been waging war on any COVID-19 treatment that isn't either the vaccine or the horribly poisonous remdesivir.

 

[Foxymophandlemama]

I've been depressed my whole life, like, I don't remember how it was before depression. Unfortunately, I only started to get proper treatment at 19 years old, meaning that I spent most of my teenage years severely depressed and suicidal, which I believe has taken its toll in my development. Nowadays I am far much better, taking lithium, sertraline and another one to help me sleep that I don't remember right now.

Other than that, I have several house plants and a cat that helps me to feel needed and to get out of bed everyday. I do stretches periodically during the day as I've found it gives me a little energy. I have therapy once a week. I say I love you a lot. I call my parents almost everyday since I started living on my own. Long walks also help me a lot because where I live there are a lot of trees and small animals, which uplifts my mood.

I used to drink heavily and smoke weed, something I don't do anymore and it also has helped to improve my condition a lot. Even changing my diet helped, now it consists mostly of lean meat, vegetables, fruits and teas.

It may seem cliche, but it does get better. I used to believe that I wouldn't live past 17, and here I am, 24 years old.

 

[Ratoyan]

Depression is such a fascinating thing. It almost feels like oneself is powering down and losing all steam and motivation, slogging through the mud, carrying the black dog as they say. In my family mental illness is unfortunately genetic and so I was born with clinical depression. Honestly the best thing you can do is keep routine, do your best to get some sun, have a strong support system with proper monitoring, and therapy. Its not something that just goes away, but you'll have good and bad days and its about accepting that and the trauma from your life that has led you here, and having commitment to the goals you want in life and the people you love.

All of you have such good points and I see a lot of really great coping skills. Its good to know people look for those things to keep living for in life.

I definitely found animals helped me a lot. Getting outside and taking care of animals who couldnt take care of themselves gave me a clear purpose and path to slowly take baby steps down. Ive always adored them since I was a child. I went into research and the more I found out about my passion the more alive I felt as a person. It was like all those parts of me I lost in horrific traumatic events in the past sort of came back to me later on in life through the exploration of the things I truly loved and cared about and filled those holes in my heart. I also found art really helped and I was able to draw a lot of my sadness out and onto paper and almost resolve it with paintings and comics.
I think when you're depressed you forget all of the great things out there that you can do and feel and see because your mind is so shut down, but if people help you rediscover them slowly over a period of time, it does come back to you and it does get better. I know that's a meme, but I've seen people come out of very long depressions and have very good lives after that contain a lot of accomplishments that they wished to do when they were younger but in that depression. I think hearing those stories and knowing people who got through it and being able to call on them when its getting hard has really helped. Its okay to reach out.

 

[5000% Sure]

I don't think I ever had full-on diagnosable depression, but I started only eating meat (+some low-carb dairy like cheese/heavy whipping cream) 3 months ago and my mental health has been way better since (plus I've lost like 30 pounds with no effort). I used to have constant headaches and fatigue and occasional suicidal thoughts, and all of that's almost completely gone now (I also just have way more energy in general). I assume it's largely just because what I was doing before was eating tons of processed super high-sugar/carb junk food, but I've tried other diets like keto/IF in the past and never saw this kind of improvement. It might not be for everyone (and it's more expensive than eating normal food as well), but I don't see myself ever going back to a normal diet at this point outside of cheat days for special occasions.

I haven't looked too much into the science surrounding it, but there was a recent-ish study in the Oxford University Press showing a 90% overall health improvement, with 45% of respondents also claiming mental health improvements specifically. Keep in mind this was a self-reported online survey though. The explanation I've heard for why it might help with mental health is that meat is anti-inflammatory and that things like depression can be wholly or partially caused by inflammation. I haven't looked into this thoroughly enough to really say whether this is true, but it makes some intuitive sense at least.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

Meat has a lot of zinc and taurine, which are both important and a lot of people are low in. However, I'm not convinced that an animal-product heavy diet is sustainable in the long run. I used to eat meat and eggs every day but over time the carnitine from the meat and choline from the eggs fueled my gut clostridia, which made my ADD worse.

 

[Ronnie McNutt]

i have been very unhappy for the past month and a half, lost motivation to do anything, and feel distracted by the thing that's stressing me. could this be a sign of depression? i feel very powerless and lonely feeling i will always be useless

 

[GLUE SNIFFER 9000]

i have been very unhappy for the past month and a half, lost motivation to do anything, and feel distracted by the thing that's stressing me. could this be a sign of depression? i feel very powerless and lonely feeling i will always be useless

Oh yeah, that's depression. It sounds like you're really struggling with something, have you talked to anyone about those feelings yet? Those feelings are always going to get worse if you keep them bottled up.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

I tell myself : "At least you're not Patrick Tomlinson".

 

[SNU]

You literally just try not to kill yourself. Depressive episodes vary from person to person and so does the cause of the episode. I won't pretend to have it figured out but I'll just talk about my opinion and you can take from it what you want.

You just find a reason not to kill yourself, even if it's just buying time. A decent amount of depressive episodes spontaneously resolve with or without treatment.

Most people don't actually understand depression. They'll say they understand but then tell you to cheer up or lose patience with you when it's been a couple of months and you still aren't better. It destroys any resilience you have and makes it impossible to picture a future where things can improve. It's impossible to find motivation to "just go outside" or "get a hobby" or "cheer up" if you can't even conceptualize the possibility of things getting better. It's kinda like how the rich can't really imagine being poor. It also feeds itself. Low mood leads to behavior (like isolation or inactivity) that leads to low mood. Depression literally makes you retarded. You can't think as fast as usual, your memory gets worse, and/or you cant even make simple decisions. The simplest tasks tire you out. Small problems you can normally shrug off become catastrophes. You even move slower and it feels like your limbs are heavier than normal. You even get random aches and pains that have no known cause.

Double check that there isn't an illness causing your low mood. Insist upon hormone level tests, see a psych about the time you got molested or whatever issues you have, and if there is no known cause then just keep buying time. Try to stay compliant with treatment even if you think it's not working. Not because "take the pills because dr said so" but because taking antidepressants inconsistently or suddenly stopping them can make you unstable. Someone i know once suddenly stopped taking his meds and he started hallucinating that people were in his house trying to kill him. He had no history of psychosis but when something fucks with your brain, suddenly stopping it will cause issues. That being said, if it's been a month or so and there's no change then speak up. Switching treatment plans helps buy time. There's that little period of hope just after youve changed meds where it feels like maybe things will improve.

When things start to improve then try to simplify things. Try to figure out what actually matters to you as opposed to what you think other people want you to do. If you just want stability in an average paying job that you enjoy then that's alright as long as it's meaningful to you. Not everyone really wants to be the top of their field. Some people want to be the best and some people want to be comfortable. Find out what you want and what is meaningful to you. It may be something like "I just want to make a living wage and make fun of weirdos on the internet". A lot of negative self criticism comes from thoughts that start with "I should be doing this" but really you don't actually care about it so you never make steps towards that goal. For example you might beat yourself up about learning a new language. You might think "I should learn Cantonese" but really you don't actually want to talk to Chinese people or go to china. You just think that other people would think it's impressive if you learned another language. People really don't care. Do what you want to do. Not what you think other people think you should be doing. The exception to this is don't be a total weirdo. I'm typing this as though I'm talking to a reasonable person. Not someone who's into some really weird shit.

Be careful not to bite off more than you can chew at the start. As soon as you're able to picture a future that doesn't involve killing yourself you'll be tempted to "catch up" on the opportunities you missed while you were too depressed to get out of bed. Those opportunities have passed but there will be new ones. Trying to recreate missed opportunities is a trap that will just make you feel bad.

Also, practice being assertive. Is there a corporation that did something that annoyed you or sold you a subpar product? Annoy them until they appease you. Its easier to feel angry than happy when you're depressed. It gives you something to do and it's surprising what big corporations will give you if you become a nuisance to them. Then try using that assertiveness in other areas of your life. But don't be a dick. There's a difference between assertive and aggressive. Just find someone who deserves it and be a nuisance without overtly breaking any rules (actual rules or unwritten rules).

If all that fails then make sure you leave a note that blames kiwifarms. Write "I killed myself because kiwifarms.net bullies people" so null has to deal with journalists contacting him about how evil his website is.

 

[MarcellaM]

I have a therapy session once a week, and I think for me it's one of the best ways to fight depression. During sessions, I can discuss even the smallest issue which bothers me and understand my actual feelings. Because from my experience can say that if you don't understand your feelings, it may lead to negative consequences. Also, from time to time, when I feel like I'm close to losing it, I take prescribed medicines. Also, I try to always pay attention to my feelings. When I see something is wrong, I take a pause from everything and do something I enjoy. It can be a workout, going out for food, reading, etc.
Work/life balance, min. 7 hours of sleeping are also essential for me

 

[Brahma]

glutathione

There's good studies showing cold water swimming/immersion increases endogenous glutathione and prolonged practice can increase your base level, another arrow in the arsenal

 

[Mayor Adam West]

I pray the rosary daily and try to stay positive. However I am currently banking all of my self worth and happiness off a prospective relationship. Should I fail, which is a real possibility, I might drink myself to death. But for now I am quite happy. Try to remember that there are things or people you can use to make yourself feel not like shit. Just realize that it will all come crashing down one day though.

 

[Stoneheart]

sniff some colombian snow every morning....

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

I pray the rosary daily and try to stay positive.

That's good; having an activity you repeat every day gives your mind something to focus and ground yourself on.

However I am currently banking all of my self worth and happiness off a prospective relationship.

What makes it "prospective"? What makes it worth "banking all my self-worth and happiness" on?

Should I fail, which is a real possibility, I might drink myself to death.

It's actually good that you think it "might" fail, since that means you're willing to take a realistic approach to things. However, if you're saying this simply because you have a low self-image of yourself, you're actually just increasing the burden (consciously or unconsciously) on the other person to carry up not only their part of the relationship, but yours as well.

But for now I am quite happy. Try to remember that there are things or people you can use to make yourself feel not like shit.

Have you been a person other people have used to not feel like shit - specifically, by making you feel more like shit?

Just realize that it will all come crashing down one day though.

It doesn't have to.

 

[Mayor Adam West]

That's good; having an activity you repeat every day gives your mind something to focus and ground yourself on.

Yep

What makes it "prospective"?

I don't know how she will react to the proposition.

What makes it worth "banking all my self-worth and happiness" on?

She's everything I could want in a woman and then some.

It's actually good that you think it "might" fail, since that means you're willing to take a realistic approach to things.

Yes that is the case.

However, if you're saying this simply because you have a low self-image of yourself, you're actually just increasing the burden (consciously or unconsciously) on the other person to carry up not only their part of the relationship, but yours as well.

Ehh...I think things will work out. Besides, I am a catch and she wants what I have.

Have you been a person other people have used to not feel like shit - specifically, by making you feel more like shit?

Not sure if that is the intent of others but sometimes that has been the effect.

It doesn't have to.

Fate will unwind as it must.

 

[Heckler1]

When I feel depressed I find it helpful to realize what's going on, and then make an effort to not lean into those feelings. I try and focus on small little accomplishments/tasks to feel like I've done something and really just focus on getting through the day in a step by step manner. As a preventative, Mrs Heckler and I have started going to the gym together, and I find its really been helping. In general, any sort of physical movement can help depression go away ime.

 

[blacksmith tony]

Ehh...I think things will work out. Besides, I am a catch and she wants what I have.

Partners are a great source of support when you’re unable to carry the burden of depression, but the honeymoon phase will pass. They’re an individual with their own baggage. To expect someone to carry theirs and yours as well is a hot ticket to more problems. Would you be able to be there for them to carry theirs when they aren’t up to it?
Working through persistent depression is hard work, and just like an addict, it takes conscious effort on your part daily to not sink down into it. Medication and therapy are tools but not the fix. And people are flawed. It’s a heavy burden to put on someone to fix you.

 

[devjo]

I was in the same boat,I found local therapist who helped me a lot.