How Far is "Too Far?"

[Marvin]

Just wondering -- why was the audio for the call even recorded if it wasn't going to be released? As far as I can tell from what people are saying about it, there was no real information in that call other than Chris being (rightfully) sad about his father's passing. So wouldn't it make sense to just delete it?

Did I say it was a call? I don't remember.

But anyway, as far as calls go, we don't know what the contents of a call are going to be ahead of time. So we record everything ahead of time. Plus we don't maintain collective deposits of content. The person who recorded it has a copy (and their records might be iffy). They might give out copies to people who missed a call. So those people might have a copy. I kept my own recordings too, but I was iffy on recording dates at first, plus I've gone through multiple hard drives and backups since then.

I don't think I have the fullest listing of recorded calls, but I was more dilligent in recording dates, I think. Well, I guess the OS would record dates, provided you're not moving the files to other file systems.

Basically, whenever we decide to release something, we have to gather a bunch of stuff together. I don't know where it is now or who has copies, but I'm sure a copy exists somewhere. And I'm only basing that claim on numbers.

 

[Cwckifan]

There's a pretty heated discussion going on right now about whether to release the audio of Chris grieving over his father. This thread isn't about that, but rather the idea that releasing it would be going "too far," and what "too far" means.

So, we can lie to him. We can manipulate him. We can pretend to be his friend in order to stab him in the back for lulz later. We can harass him wherever he goes on the internet. We can send things to his house. We can steal his property. We can violate his privacy and make the most intimate details of his life public against his will. We can set him up for failure again and again just so we can laugh at how pathetic he is. We can call him just about any insult we can think of.

Oh, but we don't want to go "too far," or anything, 'cause that would be mean.

Think of it like this; Chris's trolling has always been a result of his poor choices, and reactive behavior. However, just because he decided to engage a few opportunistic EPIC WEEN idjiots, nobody (I think) is saying that his trolling has ever been 'deserved', 'fair', or moral\ethical in any meaningful way. That being said, you've probably noticed that all of Chris' past trolling was a consequence of his need to try and 'best' his trolls, and an inability to heed fair warnings, and react appropriately in social exchanges--something to which we have all been witnesses. You'll notice here, however, that this has absolutely nothing to do with a bad decision on Chris' part, and is a perfectly reasonable reaction to a very sensitive topic being discussed in confidence. Really, that should be more than enough to not release it. Trolling is bad enough, but at least we can all agree that Chris had the ability to not engage his trolls at any time. He had no control over this, however, so there's no need to be so callous and ghoulish

 

[KatsuKitty]

Just wondering -- why was the audio for the call even recorded if it wasn't going to be released? As far as I can tell from what people are saying about it, there was no real information in that call other than Chris being (rightfully) sad about his father's passing. So wouldn't it make sense to just delete it?

I've asked this same question and here's what I was told. When calls are taken between Chris and someone "in the know", they are diligently recorded lest Chris does something that may be released someday. The reason this was done was because direct material from the BlueSpike saga went lost, and nobody wanted to see that happen again. So anytime they go to initiate contact with Chris, they begin collecting data on it regardless of what actually happens. And Chris' crying episode just so happened to be caught in that larger effort.

Why was it never deleted? Ask Marvin, I can't answer that. It's probably not that pressing a concern, given these people have jobs, friends, and a life, unlike the people who seem to get so inflamed over the fact that the "sekrit club" hasn't upheld their sperg-imposed "moral duty" of deleting content that will never be released. But to sit there and suggest they're having a great, routine laugh over it and you're not? Are you kidding me?

This is something I want to put in the almanac: content probably isn't being kept from people solely to draw a distinction between "haves" and "have nots". I always thought of it more like "classified" versus "unclassified". "Classified" content poses some risk to Chris' entire social circle should it ever be released, much like you wouldn't want nuclear bomb blueprints to be handed over to Iranians. "Unclassified" content poses no such risk, so we get to see it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

I mean really, the whole "I wanna be in the super cool kid club" grade school nonsense has to stop.

 

[Marvin]

When calls are taken between Chris and someone "in the know", they are diligently recorded lest Chris does something that may be released someday. The reason this was done was because direct material from the BlueSpike saga went lost, and nobody wanted to see that happen again. So anytime they go to initiate contact with Chris, they begin collecting data on it regardless of what actually happens. And Chris' crying episode just so happened to be caught in that larger effort.

Heh, this is mostly on target. We record things once they start, not when our situations start to become interesting. We don't have people who are smart enough to figure out when things have become interesting on the fly. That's why we can't initiate recording on the fly.

Why was it never deleted? Ask Marvin, I can't answer that. It's probably not that pressing a concern, given these people have jobs, friends, and a life, unlike the people who seem to get so inflamed over the fact that the "sekrit club" hasn't upheld their sperg-imposed "moral duty" of deleting content that will never be released.

I guess KatsuKitty is kinda saying this, but we don't really think about this stuff. We don't even know if it still exists. Some people have files, under questionable filenames and in questionable formats. It might exist, but it'll require some searching and some effort on the part of the person managing the hard drive. Leaks require me to get off my ass and gather this information up.

But to sit there and suggest they're having a great, routine laugh over it and you're not? Are you kidding me?

This is something I want to put in the almanac: content probably isn't being kept from people solely to draw a distinction between "haves" and "have nots". I always thought of it more like "classified" versus "unclassified". "Classified" content poses some risk to Chris' entire social circle should it ever be released, much like you wouldn't want nuclear bomb blueprints to be handed over to Iranians. "Unclassified" content poses no such risk, so we get to see it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

I mean really, the whole "I wanna be in the super cool kid club" grade school nonsense has to stop.

This. Don't have anything to add to this.

 

[CWCissey]

Too far is actual physical harm to Chris and/or his loved ones and possessions (The PS3 smashing gets a bye as Chris did that without being cajoled by anyone).

We can laugh at Chris acting like a dickhead because it's all in his control and the only one stopping him from making a fool of himself, is Chris himself. But once it becomes too real (BlueSpike, this call) then it borders on psychopathic.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

For me the only real moral issue is if it is ok to bring "harm" to Chris in order to help him.

We all know Chris isn't likely to improve by himself, it would take some kind of outside influence to force him to affect a positive change in his lifestyle. Left to his own I can see Chris spending the rest of his miserable existence in the same manner as he does today; a 50 year old bemoaning his lonely life as he chugs Fanta and plays on his PS 7.

His currently lifestyle is only supported by his tug- boat if someone was to find away to have that taken away he would be forced into getting a job. This step towards normalcy might(hopefully!) trigger other changes leading to a semblance of a life for OPL.

But it may also trigger a collapse like no other as Chris has no fall back like normal people, destroying what little happiness he has. Causing him even more suffering as he loses everything he cares for. No Life up-grade and no cozy bug infest hamlet to slumber in.

It's an interesting thought puzzle. Do we bring him tempory pain in the hope of some gain or do we leave him in his current state of low but tolerable lifestyle ? Do we even have any moral ground to stand?

I'm a former "white knight"...of sorts...and I fear for Chris's long term sanity and safety. Given the bleak outlook of his future it's hard not to be tempted to try something/anything to avoid that.

I dunno...

ugh. Excuse the grammar and spelling, it's very late and i can't be asses to re-read :?

 

[RagtimeRoastBeefy]

There was a documentary some years back where professional torturers mentioned that when they would sodomize someone they would do it with an every day object like a coke bottle. The reason of course is that they would see that object every day and remember it. I think blue spike is the best example of too far because of how sadistic that whole thing was. Remember sonichu is the guys life. I wouldn't blame him for stopping the comic if sonichu reminded him of that event. I am absolutely sure I won't listen to that audio any time soon. The sounds of Chris crying over his dead father to me are a bit wrong to listen to as well. I read the thread and aristocrats posts and all i could think was you don't need "evidence" Chris is human. He looks like a human, talks like a human and acts like a human. Feeling some people are more "human" than others comes from a weird set of ubermensch based philosophies that are better left dead in the early 20th century. These people need to gather up their copies of the fountainhead and build libertaria and go the fuck away.

Chris cried when his dad died. There's nothing funny about that. As said earlier unless he's crying out for sonichu to save him there's no comedic value to it. There is barely christorical value in it either. We can deduct that Chris is a human being and he cried during that episode. Now if he had acted in a way that was surprising maybe it would be worth hearing. People who can't believe Chris is human are a-logs. Anyone who hasn't at this point in following him for this long realized that they have Chris-like qualities is sperging as hard as a-log himself.

The funniest trolls to me have always been the one where chris is ridiculous for believing in them. When tito made that video of him "talking" with his fat pleading for chris to have mercy on him during the calling out saga, that was genuinely hilarious. chris' smug reaction to his plea was even funnier. The best one to me was the liquid saga, at worst chris had to sing "let me smell your dick," which honestly he can easily recover from when he realizes that your word isn't always what you mean. But this saga was really funny because it was so bizarre he believed it and because honestly as said before, if he does start to improve his life, he can look back on it and maybe even laugh that he thought that was real.

 

[Bgheff]

I mean really, the whole "I wanna be in the super cool kid club" grade school nonsense has to stop.

Then we wouldn't have the spergatory.

 

[RagtimeRoastBeefy]

[youtube]wUf0QFFi2Mk[/youtube]

 

[Holdek]

We had a poll about this on the last forum. We had a variety of responses, but a substantial plurality of members said the maximum trolling limit or whatever would be doing the fake sweetheart thing, FWIW.

And of course we know the Grim Reaper proved to be a ]P

So Chris thinks that both GodBear and the Reaper are trolls.

He really is between a rock and a hard spot, isn't he?

 

[Zim]

My opinion is about the same as most others.

Too far is trying to cause harm to him on purpose. Example: Convincing him that chicks dig emo tomgirls so he needs to cut himself is bad but him deciding, on his own, to go into a rough biker bar in full tomgirl and hit on some dudes old lady and getting beaten up as a result is fine.

Also, tradgedies in the same vein as bob dying should remain mostly private especially when he's grieving. They took down the Cwcki and stopped a trolling effort dead in it's tracks when that happened so given that it should be no brainer that unfunny mourning audio or similar things should be a no-go.

That's just my 4cent right there so take it as you will.

 

[Hyperion]

I think as time goes on we're going to have to accept that more and more Chris will need his privacy.

When is the watching going to stop?

 

[Zim]

I think as time goes on we're going to have to accept that more and more Chris will need his privacy.

When is the watching going to stop?

Possibly when he becomes more sad then weird, we lose access to him via a special needs facility/nursing home/cardboard box, or when his situation gets so bad he loses access to the net.

It's hard to say, a lot of us have 3 to 5 years wrapped up in Chris watching. A lot of us want to know the end game. The saga to end all sagas if you will.

 

[Venusaur]

Yes...I can safely say that's the reason why I still follow Chris. After all that's happened, I want to know how it all ends.

 

[IcyHotWings]

Honestly, I would love to see a CWC documentary made eventually after he crashes into slumber for the final time. While I certainly believe in respecting the dead, I believe that Chris is something unique, and so bizarre that it needs to be shared with future generations. He's almost charming in a "Mister Bean"-esque way, and as far as I know he IS the original lolcow, and if not he's certainly the most well documented and most interesting. Chris can be a cautionary tale, a stress reliever, and I'm hoping a story of victory against all odds.

 

[Holdek]

I think as time goes on we're going to have to accept that more and more Chris will need his privacy.

When is the watching going to stop?

Possibly when he becomes more sad then weird, we lose access to him via a special needs facility/nursing home/cardboard box, or when his situation gets so bad he loses access to the net.

OT: It's crazy that only 25 years ago if you said, "When his situation gets so bad he loses access to the net," people would say, "What do you mean? Like a fishing net? Is he a retarded Eskimo or something?"

The Internet has become a utility close up there with electricity and water.

 

[Amsterdam]

First off there is no discussion about the tape being released or not,there WAS a discussion and it ended when Marvin said it isn't getting released. Also what would be "too far" for me anyway is having something leaked where Chris is really hurting or in pain like, well the tape of Chris sobbing over his father, Or causing Chris physical pain (like when bluespike made Chris shove his medallion up his ass that was fucked up).
What's "too far" is really a personal opinion, What I might see as being perfectly fine may be going too far for some other people. But when its all said and done, I'm just an observer, I have no say in what's leaked and what's not leaked, And I'm fine with that I don't want to control what gets out and what doesn't, But more importantly I don't try to influence some one into releasing content. I just sit back and observe all the strange behavior Chris displays and sometimes I comment on said behavior on this forum. Sorry if that ran a little long lol but I had a lot to say after I read that locked thread.

 

[trip2themoon]

I think as time goes on we're going to have to accept that more and more Chris will need his privacy.

When is the watching going to stop?

Possibly when he becomes more sad then weird, we lose access to him via a special needs facility/nursing home/cardboard box, or when his situation gets so bad he loses access to the net.

It's hard to say, a lot of us have 3 to 5 years wrapped up in Chris watching. A lot of us want to know the end game. The saga to end all sagas if you will.

Yeah, I'd say there's about 5 years' worth left in him too. By the time he's in his 40s he'll be a sad lonely old man. I hope he does find some companionship before we all tire of him because I din't think Barb will be around for much of his 40s and although I think he's a prick of a guy I reckon we all deserve some company. (paedophiles, rapists and all out and out nasty people excluded of course)

 

[Cwckifan]

For me the only real moral issue is if it is ok to bring "harm" to Chris in order to help him.

Bringing harm to others is always unethical, regardless of one's good intentions, or intentions at all. It is nice to think we're helping others, but it's really better to just leave people alone. Really, Chris may be a few home runs short of a winning game, but he's more than capable of seeking out help when he needs\wants it. He'll change when he sees fit, and it's nobody's place to force it on him

 

[Marvin]

For me the only real moral issue is if it is ok to bring "harm" to Chris in order to help him.

Bringing harm to others is always unethical, regardless of one's good intentions, or intentions at all. It is nice to think we're helping others, but it's really better to just leave people alone. Really, Chris may be a few home runs short of a winning game, but he's more than capable of seeking out help when he needs\wants it. He'll change when he sees fit, and it's nobody's place to force it on him

Heh, what about the death penalty? Or what about imprisonment in general? Or what's the status of children and serious legal punishment? How do you define a child? Is it purely an age thing, or what about someone who's 20 years old, but still retarded in the head?

Ethics as far as legal punishments go is tricky. We do our best to come up with simple systems, but we consistently fail. I think the best we can do is come up with a system that the majority of people can theorize about when they're in the act. Y'know, if you're on the street, you can say to yourself "if I do this, it'll be 6-10 years... maybe I don't want to do this?"

I don't know, that's a good enough system for me.