How much is the insistence on being respected responsible for society's problems? - [Aretha Franklin reference goes here]

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

One commonly heard motive for gang crime is "dat nigga be disrespectin me." Some rapper even got gunned down because of it. I've encountered it personally at one place I worked at. A white trash coworker refused to do his job and got mad at me for doing it for him and when I tried explaining what he was doing wrong, the guy started whining about me disrespecting him. Allowing children to chemical castrate and mutilate their bodies ("trans rights") is commonly framed as "basic respect for transpeople." Clearly, a lot of people think they deserve respect.

Where did the idea that everyone deserves to be respected come from? Is it yet another perversion of Christianity or perhaps a logical endpoint for liberal Enlightenment values? I know for a fact this idea is commonly taught in children's media since at least the 90s, which may be a part of this. All of those shows aimed at children as young as 3 teach "respect others" as a core value, something which is then drilled into children in preschool and kindergarten. I don't know how long this has been going on, but at least since the early/mid-90s when I was the target audience. Somehow I doubt the idea of "respect is something earned" was common on those shows. It doesn't seem to be a common moral at all in society, and I only ever remember hearing it from my parents. There's something terrifying about how rare such a factual truth, reinforced in societies around the world, is in today's society.

How much of all the insanity we see in society now is because we taught entire generations that they're deserving of respect just for being them? Would there be so much crime or violence if people weren't encoded with this basic egoism? Would we still have to worship troons?

 

[Comfy Gondola]

Somehow I doubt the idea of "respect is something earned" was common on those shows.

Correct. A lot of common sense shit like this has been systematically phased out of society through media and education. A whole lot of crazy clown world shit, if not arguably all of it, is pretty much a direct result of that. Especially due to a more recent push where respect is now also conflated with tolerance, and tolerance with acceptance.

Basically, you don't need to "earn respect" anymore, when respect is no longer something to be earned in the first place. And if everyone and their dog inherently deserves "respect", then you'll be quickly sliding down a very slippery slope, until you get to things like your example of chemically castrating kids because uwu twans rites!

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I think you're conflating different concepts that we call respect. Firstly there is respect as a verb to indicate holding someone in high regard (in some way), and then there is respect as a verb as in to treat with decency. The former, as a reflection of your private feelings, is not something you can demand of others, but the latter absolutely is. To be respected is not a default, to be treated with respect is. To respect someone can be to respect just a specific facet of them - like an enemy you hate, but you still recognize a talent or a virtue in them - or it can be to respect them in the broader sense of admiring them as a personality in its entirety. What actions would be considered disrespectful also depend on the person, yourself, the context of it.

The examples you gave aren't cases of disrespect in the first place, and Blacks choosing to resolve their differences through murder is not a consequence of "disrespect," it's a consequence of their whole culture revolving around thuggery. But what I do agree with, a bit, is that I think we've seen a major shift away from respect-as-action to respect-as-emotion. People don't just demand that you behave politely - if anything, politeness is discouraged - but they do demand that you admire and approve of people without any grounds for it (Pride).

No, I don't see respect as a source of problems, I see quite the opposite, modern society encourages disrespectful behavior, it encourages it against elders and tradition, it encourages it in brutish manners towards each other. You know the theory that your physical environment sets your mood and your outlook? I believe that etiquette serves a similar function in society by setting a tone and the relaxation of etiquette has real effects. A world in which people don't greet each other, hold doors, say sir, wear shirts with vulgarity on them, is a world that invites its own decay.

We also live in a world that has little sense of honor or dignity, people easily give into degrading demands because they are told it is okay to do so, that it doesn't stain themselves. Edit: I suppose you might argue that this is the same as a lack of self-respect as action, in that the person, whether or not they think highly of themselves, fail to act in a way that honors themselves.

 

[Ultrapenguin]

I don't think it's wrong to respect people

For example, I think bacteria and insects deserve a lot of respect. So do rodents. Humans as a species aren't given enough respect, we take a lot of our strengths for granted. Everything deserves respect. That's tied to spirituality in my book

The issue is that the concept of respect is warped in these scenarios.

If everything deserves respect, then they should respect the fact that other entities have their own interests exactly like you do and aren't obligated to respect you. You should respect that others' respect is worth something, and respect yourself enough to be willing to better yourself to deserve it.

In a way it's their unwillingness to internalize those lessons about respecting others and themselves that's the problem.

So the message that everyone deserves respect isn't incorrect; however it's also kind of meaningless, since if you respect everyone (including yourself) then you respect their right to not respect things.

Basically it's the usual useless platitudes you find any time someone tries to morally preach at people.

 

[ZeCommissar]

The word "respect" like many other words in our current world is starting to lose its meaning, or more accurately starting to get its meaning twisted into something unlike the original meaning. As @Ughubughughughughughghlug already pointed out you're confusing the concepts of respect. I have always had a basic view of the "respect is earned, not given" saying. I may not like someone, or want to associate with them but unless given reason to do so I should treat them with basic manners and respect. However if someone wants to be truly respected by me in which I admire them they have to earn that. When someone tells a toddler to "respect others" they probably aren't going "just think everyone is a great person and you should respect everything they do!" but instead "treat people with manners".

Whenever I take a trip out of my small town to visit the surrounding bughives when I see a troon walking behind me I still hold open the door, say good morning and go about my day. I don't give them a nasty glare, snicker at them, or treat them with disrespect even if the temptation is there. Why would I? It serves literally no purpose, makes me look like a asshole, and just adds to the general negativity of everyday life. Everyone should be treated with basic respectful manners unless you already know them to be some sort of terrible person, or they come at you initially in a disrespectful manner. One month ago I had a gay guy ask me out. I didn't call him a faggot and get angry at him, I just said "sorry, but I don't swing that way, and I have a GF anyway" and he respected my decision without being pissy and that was it.

Honestly humans across most societies have always been niggers about respect in some capacity. Just replace the word respect with honor and you'll see what I mean when you open the history textbook.

Now where did this perversion of the concept of respect come from? Well some of it is because of the reasons OP listed like perversion of Christianity, but honestly the reasons are really multi-faceted like most modern problems. When little Timmy acted a little weird in school and got bullied it used to usually be in most cases that Timmy grew some balls and punched the bully back. People got in trouble, but nothing too serious, and now the bully gained some modicum of respect since his target fought back and things went on. Funnily enough in some cases the bully might actually respect people like Timmy more since he showed a backbone.

Now when Timmy gets bullied and a fight starts the kids get in trouble but now the bully gets it drilled into him how wrong it is to bully Timmy over liking to wear dresses while even thinking Timmy is somehow different from the rest of us is bigotry, and Timmy gets told there is absolutely nothing wrong with him and how he is so stunning and brave to wear dresses. Both are told that physical fighting under any circumstances is never ever ok, and that if they keep doing it criminal charges will happen. Yes if some of you were out of the loop kids in middle and high school can be charged in some districts for just fighting. Doesn't matter how hurt someone got, if weapons were involved, or anything that would make sense to charge someone over really. If they fight multiple times in a school year with just fists it can happen.

Many many different causes. Now people seem to think that in order to respect someone you have to agree with everything they do and accommodate them. Remember the whole "Christian baker won't make our gay cake! He hates us!" debacle? Which is why retards have this strange idea that Jesus would march in pride parades, and that the slightest disagreement with troons over any point means you want them to literally no longer exist as people.

People also don't realize you can hate someone and still respect them. To some people that seems to be some alien concept.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

@ZeCommissar I hope you showed me proper respect and wrote that name out by hand, only people who do it by hand have the right to invoke it.

 

[ZeCommissar]

@ZeCommissar I hope you showed me proper respect and wrote that name out by hand, only people who do it by hand have the right to invoke it.

Hey now wait a minute. Momma always told me "respect is earned, not given". But since you asked so nicely I'll admit I didn't. @Ughubughughughughughghlug. There you go. Happy?

 

[Strix454]

One commonly heard motive for gang crime is "dat nigga be disrespectin me." Some rapper even got gunned down because of it.

In practice, that stuff is the opposite of respect. Its about one person disrespecting another person to raise their own status and lower that of the other person. The person being disrespected has the choice of either backing down (and losing status) or responding with violence. Its mostly a black thing and its different than the other stuff you talk about.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Modern society isn't about everyone deserving respect, but a clear divide of who deserves and doesn't deserve respect. And that respect includes enabling everything the other group does irregardless of its morals. It's pretty much the diversity stack in a different name since being more disadvantaged means more respect.

Also with early life of Gen X the entire culture was showing as much disrespect as possible, primarily to popular targets such as Christianity and family.

 

[Angry Alt Right Nerd]

Americans after spending decades romanticizing dog-eat-dog and win-at-any-costs capitalism: "Where did we go wrong? Why is everyone a complete sociopath?"

 

[Betonhaus]

A lot of respect goes hand in hand with responsibilities and expectations. Certain minority groups don't have the same level of responsibilities and expectations for them, which leads to them being viewed as "lesser" for it. It can make it harder for them to earn respect that others would get in certain situations, as they're just seen as a diversity hire or a victim.

And yes, we had the hippie generations and allowed the notion that great disrespect and disregard is warranted to traditions that have kept us together for lifetimes. A lot of progressive ideas have the flaw of coming up with a brand new way way of doing things, then slowly learning the painful lessons that had refined the old ways over time.

With the way things are going in the greater world, we may not be able to afford to ignore the problems of respect for much longer.

 

[Kill Your Idols]

Demanding respect is common for human social conduct. Consider that not too long ago, it was common for even the elite classes to engage in duels as a response to being slighted. One interesting distinction though, the purpose of a duel was not to necessarily kill your opponent, but to show up in the first place. The idea was that by laying your life on the line for your actions, you were already expressing respect for each other's motivations. Regardless of the outcome, the conflict that sparked the duel was expected to resolve.

What stands out to me in contrast to modern ideas of respect, is that even a violent practice like dueling had a resolution and was ultimately a way to deescalate tension by socially pressuring people in conflict to get over their differences. While violence is not considered a socially acceptable answer anymore as we have gradually prioritized people's safety, I feel we are not as mindful of how to provide satisfying conclusions to disagreements. We've gotten extremely good at passive aggressively avoiding conflict, but extremely bad at conflict resolution.

Ultimately, I don't think respect is the issue, it's more that we lack the discipline necessary to properly handle respect. Instead of understanding that we all have differences of value and opinion, we've made it so that every moderately offensive or controversial take is taboo and anyone who breaks that taboo is immediately a scumbag that's not worthy of basic etiquette. The scope of unforgivable crimes grows by the day and you cannot have any opinion on race, gender, political alignment, etc. without it turning into a shit fit. When everyone from pundits to drama whores has every incentive to drag every minor issue to kingdom come on social media, we're straying from anything resembling a respectful society.