How Much Survived? (Poll)

[OtterParty]

"alot". http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2 ... thing.html

 

[MrTroll]

That should exceptional individual mold growth quite a bit

I love when the word filter does this.

In case anyone is wondering what the hell he was trying to say, the word that was filtered out was "r e t a r d" minus the spaces.

 

[Spork]

A few questions:

1. Have you considered the possibility that the Lego High School might have been in the family room with Chris and Barb instead of Chris's room? What would the implications of that be?
2. Going from the daylight post-fire photos here, there appears to be severe fire damage on a wall bordering Chris's room. Also, there seems to be a hole in the roof directly above his old bed. What does that say about the damage done to his room, or how the fire spread?

 

[CatParty]

A few questions:

1. Have you considered the possibility that the Lego High School might have been in the family room with Chris and Barb instead of Chris's room? What would the implications of that be?

he made specific mention that the school was damaged.

 

[Fibonacci]

Tak me doon to the caul caul roon,
Whaur afore monie mair hain't gaun.

When they come a wull staun ma groon,
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid.

Thoughts aw hame tak awa ma fear.
Sweat an cum hide ma grinded gears.

Ains a year yell JULAY faur me,
Close yir een an remember me.

An ever mair shall a see the sun,
Faur ma roof huv fell tae a Keurig invention.

Tak me doon to the caul caul roon,
Whaur afore monie mair hain't gaun.

 

[blackie toy]

They probably won't be able to go back in until the insurers have a few things checked. But that shouldn't take long. The limiting factor is going to be when they want to go searching. And... knowing those two, it's going to be awhile, if ever.

Weather-wise, it's run the gamut between slightly below freezing to the mid-40s. Indoors that can vary. But yes, the cool temperatures should stem mold growth to an extent. But post-fire, mold is always an issue.

I'm still of the opinion that the way the fire actually reached the roof isn't by burning through the rooms above, but by following an exhaust vent or the wet wall cavity up into the attic space. While there would be damage to Chris's room if it's directly above/below burning space, and smoke damage, even without what we know of Chris, it seems very likely that it's being overblown on all accounts.

 

[Blue Max]

RE: Manchester High in another part of the house.

All suggestions that this isn't a good barometer in that case are valid, although I think Chris' legos are generally in one portion of his own room. I suspect its 50/50 it was in his room--for the simple reason that putting it somewhere else is going to be physically difficult. We've all seen the inside of 14 Branchland; some rooms are outright inaccessible. Only Chris' room has any space at all--potential where the school could fit.

But the main problem with processing that suggestion is that we lack hard answers about how hot Chris' room became.

There are some constraints, the front walls didn't burn; the tarp isn't over Chris' room directly but the midsection of his house. But that gives us an upper bound of 650 F.

That number alone strongly suggests serious problems. I've got to run to work now, but 650F will melt all plastics, polyesters, char and burn paper, slag all the legoes in Chris' room and probably destroy his electronics. But at 451, the fire would already have set CWC's wall of originals ablaze and that would hit the front wall, so I'm very unsure how hot his room became.

 

[theobservdr]

I am going to say some survived, but who knows how flammable the hoard actually was, if anything they weren't oily rags or covered in flammable liquids.

 

[Mourning Dove]

I say we wait until we can access the actual fire report. It will be accessible soon enough.

 

[timtommy]

I don't have a good sciency analysis. All I will say from personal experience is smoke damage is really bad.

There was a fire in the building I live in, but it was 25-30 floors below where I am and on the other side of the building. Only one unit was on fire, but the whole building filled with toxic smoke. There was noticeable smoke damage in my unit. The insurance paid for a professional cleaning of my place. People who lived within a couple units of the fire in any direction basically had their places totalled.

I don't quite know what things are more susceptible to smoke damage, but I think that even if the fire didn't "reach" a certain room in the house, the proximity to it will have wreaked some serious havoc.

 

[Bob's Fries]

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

 

[4Macie]

The way the building looks now makes me think that at least some of the fire reached Chris's room and it's not just heat damage.
Another thing to think about is this: something that can resist 400F safely won't be able to handle 400F suddenly turned into 80F because of cold water being used on it. I'm sure many electronics could handle being 400F and then slowly coming back down to room temp, but to suddenly do so would crack it. In a fire it's possible that the fire does less damage than the water and smoke. I've encountered clothes that have been in a fire situation that smelled like toxic smoke even after 10 thorough washes. I've also seen fire instances where something that shouldn't have survived did while something that should have easily survived didn't for different reasons. One other thing I do know is that the liquid in glade plug-gins (in a lot of liquid air fresheners) is flammable. If Chris really has 5+ in his room alone, they added fuel to the fire. Their plastic would have melted, releasing the liquid, which would have burned and ignited, potentially causing the fire to burn just a bit hotter in some areas.

With all of the science in this thread and my own experiences my thoughts on this are as follows: I think a lot of stuff is going to be unusable. It'll be smokey, burnt, melted, cracked, or soggy from water. Will this cause Chris and Barb to throw it? Maybe, maybe not. I can totally see Chris keeping his medallion, even if it's cracked and hard as stone. I can also see him keeping papers even though they were soggy at one point because they dried out and are now hard and smell like smoky mold. I can also see Chris keeping his clothes, even if they smell like mold and smoke because those smells are a lot better than moldy fecal matter.

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

It's possible if Chris had his homemade covers on them. The plastic would have protected it from water damage. Though it'd still be smokey and maybe a little melted or discolored. OR, Chris has bought a new PS3/PS4 already to "cheer himself up".

 

[Bob's Fries]

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

It's possible if Chris had his homemade covers on them. The plastic would have protected it from water damage. Though it'd still be smokey and maybe a little melted or discolored. OR, Chris has bought a new PS3/PS4 already to "cheer himself up".

Perhaps. If it really did survive, would this mean he snuck back into the Hoard to bring it back?

 

[4Macie]

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

It's possible if Chris had his homemade covers on them. The plastic would have protected it from water damage. Though it'd still be smokey and maybe a little melted or discolored. OR, Chris has bought a new PS3/PS4 already to "cheer himself up".

Perhaps. If it really did survive, would this mean he snuck back into the Hoard to bring it back?

I swear I read somewhere that Chris claims they've been back already to try and salvage stuff. He said something like, "the salvaging has been fair and good" or something like that. The fact that he claims he ONLY had the clothes on his back, his wallet, and his mom's meds and now has been seen on his 3DS means that they've been allowed back (unless Chris lied and he made sure to have his 3DS too). All in all, it's highly possible that they've been allowed back in OR that Chris has just bought a new 3DS and/or PS3(4). The thing is, it would not surprise me in the least if Chris stuck in or just bought new consoles already. I'd hope Barb would be a good mom and stop him from doing it, but I know she'd want him to check the house ASAP and she might let him get some vidya if it kept him from freaking out.

 

[timtommy]

If it was hot enough to make his lego boldy melty, wouldn't the plastic casing of various electronics face a similar fate.

As for the "salvaging" I was assuming that after the fire was done the Chandler's were allowed/encouraged to look over the property to see the damage and retrieve some stuff.

 

[4Macie]

If it was hot enough to make his lego boldy melty, wouldn't the plastic casing of various electronics face a similar fate.

As for the "salvaging" I was assuming that after the fire was done the Chandler's were allowed/encouraged to look over the property to see the damage and retrieve some stuff.

Not necessarily. Lego plastic and electronic plastic aren't treated the same way. It's possible that they have different melting temps.

 

[Spork]

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

I'm not familiar with the PSN, could he be using the Vita to access it? I mean, handhelds are small. Chris could have grabbed his 3DS and Vita if they were close by when he became aware of the fire.

As for the high school, another problem is that the only word we have on its condition is that it "melted some". Knowing Chris, that could mean anything from "it's slightly warped but still intact" to "a portion of it is now a heap of melted plastic, but most of it is still there". I also can't imagine Chris carrying it all the way up to his room, given the difficulty he had accessing it more or less empty handed.

 

[4Macie]

JeffMangum checked that Chris was on his PSN account. So perhaps his PS3 survived somehow.

As for the high school, another problem is that the only word we have on its condition is that it "melted some". Knowing Chris, that could mean anything from "it's slightly warped but still intact" to "a portion of it is now a heap of melted plastic, but most of it is still there". I also can't imagine Chris carrying it all the way up to his room, given the difficulty he had accessing it more or less empty handed.

I agree with this. I don't know why everyone assumes it was in his room when he obviously doesn't keep EVERYTHING in his room (ie: masturbatory habits)
I was also thinking that we don't even know how bad it was. Chris claims it was melted, which like you said, could mean that one lego is now warped or it could mean that half of it is a complete blob of multicolors with no real shape

 

[Phil Ken Sebben]

Chris' room appears to be in the front of 14 Branchland, at a corner.
The Fire appears to have started in the back-bottom center of the first floor.

Chris himself has said that the Manchester High School set survived, a little melted; this was probably in his room, and it gives us a starting point to determine how hot his room became.

http://news.lugnet.com/technic/?n=6920

Best guess is that his room hit around 300F. That's bad, and it means a lot of things are likely damaged, but;
Paper's ignition temperature is 451F, below that point it appears ages rapidly. Untreated paper yellows after just a few years, in a fire this can happen in a very short period of time; Chris' work may very well be yellowed by age. My thinking is that that paper isn't artistic grade paper and probably doomed anyhow, but Chris' artwork in his room may have the texture of thirty year old letters; the paper has turned brown.

Most of Chris' Plastic is likely in similar shape to his Legos, deformed slightly but still essentially intact.

Clothing is generally designed to be fire resistant. The fire may have actually served a beneficial role, cauterizing Chris' dirty crapped briefs. This isn't hot enough to build fired clay in Chris' pants, but the bacteria are likely dead and the annoying stink compounds are destroyed.

Chris' Sonichu Medallion is made out of Crayola Model Magic; I've dug up what happens to Play-Doh at this temperature:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5031512_bake-playdoh-make-hard.html

Likely outcome: The Sonichu Medallion has turned rock hard and probably cracked in half; this can't survive that temperature.

Consumer electronics: A Computer CPU can hit 212F when in use, and I think most electronics are going to be similiarily resistant to heat. Rubber, involved in coating cables and wires, is often rated to higher tolerances than 300F, which covers cables. 300F is dangerous...but electronics are fairly resistant.

Things put away: If the FIremen appeared after 10 minutes, anything not exposed is likely safe.

Overall, the heat itself is unlikely to have done major damage to Christory.

What about water damage?

Lego is entirely immune.
Chris' Clothes were previously in a poor hygienic state; Dirty water is not the worst thing to have reached them, and most would be better than they've been in years with proper laundering.
Electronics are an obvious vulnerability, but electronics are intended to be used in high humidity conditions and are likely to survive being drenched better than one might expect. While Electronics can't survive immersion, they're designed to handle 100% Humidity and probably rainy conditions. Nintendo, in particular, is known for overengineering its hardware to be particularly robust. Stories of Game Boys surviving a year exposed to the elements or 30' falls are not unknown.

Paper products do less well under water, but that's because the paper itself liquefies and debonds. Sonichu, if it got soaked, is likely to take on Salvador Dali proportions--but Sonichu is five years old and likely buried beneath other stuff that took the hit.

---

This isn't all positives, though;
Possibly in play, and potentially likely, are the results of cleaning chemicals exposed to heat.
Bleach is a chlorine compound, and Chlorine also takes the form of various acids and toxins. If the Bathroom burned downstairs, cleaning compounds went up in flame. This is an irritant minimum and grounds to condemn the property, maximum.

Other bathroom chemicals, like Ammonia, Iodine, and Cleanser are equally dangerous. It might be very unsafe to retrieve Christorical artifacts and they might be abandoned.

There might be a problem with Asbestos, with things like Kaka Makeup or other exotic materials catching fire; there might even be a problem with plastic itself catching fire--but I think most things will have survive at least the fire and water.

But there's another problem of a greater sort. Even if Christory survived the blaze, it might be contaminated with toxins; it might be too much work to save in a house they no longer pay the mortgage on, and there might even be a mental break from what was simply by being forced out of the house. Christory is in mortal peril, because its also unclear that Chris values it anymore. He might very well leave it behind when he and Barb find a new place to live.

We'll see.

You're forgetting the smoke damage. I remember when we had the fire in our house, a lot of the walls were black from the smoke afterwards. Not just streaked but black. And that stuff doesn't come off easily. Carpets will be torn out, wallpaper removed all the fixtures that can't be moved will be cleaned and scrubbed. We still had some items that even though they had been professionally cleaned either still had smoke residue or in the case of a leather jacket I had now looked distressed. So that was a bonus.

There's also the smell from the smoke. That takes a long time to get rid of. Eventually you will get used to it but it can take a couple years to disappear completely.

What should happen next is, assuming they have insurance and they pay out, is a company hired by the insurance company will go in and clean the Chandler residence from top to bottom. This includes not only cleaning but repairing the damage assuming of course that the structure can be repaired.

What will happen is and will need to go through what they can salvage and what they can't. No repairs can be done until what remains of the horde is taken care of. However, what I believe is going to happen is assuming the house is deemed livable, they're going to take all the money they can and not do much in the way of repairs. They might do a superficial clean of the house. Nothing too drastic mind you because that would involve effort. And just let the house continue it's slow decline into entropy.

In the next few years when Borb finally dies, Chris will inherit a house that is effectively worthless. He won't be able to sell it for much, in fact all he'll be able to get is the value of the land which probably won't be that much.

 

[blackie toy]

He may have run out and bought a new one already. It's pretty much guaranteed they'll have evidence of its loss.

It's also probable they've been back in already if only to sift through. Given the mold issue, I think early access would be better, once it's been shown the place isn't going to collapse under its own weight. From the insurance company's perspective, getting them in sooner rather than later to less-damaged areas reduces the chances they'll succeed claiming "my entire closet, while not burned, got wet and is moldy; my fur coat can't be cleaned!" Smoke is one thing, but that can be fixed in many cases.

As to some report of the fire becoming available... I frankly think the best we could hope for is a document written by the adjuster making his conclusions as to causation and coverage, possibly referencing other reports. I doubt those other files are provided as a matter of course, though they may be available if requested by the insured party... but why would they want them? It's not going to tell them anything useful.