IceCat Interview Transcript (4/22/15)
Floss: Okay. Starting off, my name is flossman, I’m from the Kiwi Farms, and with me I have IceCat. IceCat, you’re from, well, the Kiwi Farms, obviously, but where did you start out from?
IceCat: You mean on the internet?
FlossMan: The internet, yes.
IceCat: I think you found me on love-shy.com.
Floss: love-shy.com?
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: And how long were you a member, or how long have you been a member of Love Shy?
Ice: Mmm, I think about a year, maybe a year and a half. Something like that. Maybe about a year, I think.
Floss: Okay, and when did you register at the Kiwi Farms?
Ice: Hmm, not long ago. Maybe a month or two. I can’t remember, really.
Floss: Okay, and if it’s alright, may I ask what drew you to the Farms?
Ice: I think a couple of the guys were, from love-shy, saying they were talking about us and stuff.
Floss: Makes sense.
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: Um, and I do have to apologize straight-away that I can’t guarantee how the other members of this forum are going to take this interview, how they’re going to respond to it. Like I said, I’m going to keep it strictly professional between us, but I do apologize if they “get on this,” if you know what I mean.
Ice: Yeah, I mean, ah I’ve been sort of expecting, yeah. I’ve been reading things you’ve been saying, so I’m used to it.
Floss: Okay. Alright, well I just wanted to apologize. I can’t control them, obviously, so…
Floss: All right, starting off with some questions about being a “love shy.” What, to you, does it mean to be “love shy”?
Ice: To me it’s pretty similar to social anxiety. I mean, I don’t know if you know anything about it. It’s basically when you’re with other people you feel anxious, you can’t really act normally, you feel scared. “Love shy” is like that, it’s kind of more focused on how you act with the opposite sex, really. I mean some people say “Ah, I’m okay with my own sex, but when I’m with the opposite, you know, I can’t really act the way I want to. I feel very shy or scared.”
Floss: You kind of “freeze up,” and…
Ice: Yeah, it’s…
Floss: Okay.
Ice: It’s more when you’re growing up, maybe you’re a teenager, maybe, you know. You don’t really have that much experience around the opposite sex, so, you know, that’s what I think how it happens.
Floss: Okay, that makes sense. Well, that leads into the next one I was going to ask, which is “what do you think *causes* ‘love-shyness’ or someone to become ‘love-shy’?”
Ice: Hmm, well, in my experience it’s like I said, a lot of times, including myself, I grew up with just brothers. I went to a boys’ school. My parents, well, my mum, I should say was really religious and didn’t want any sort of “mixing,” so yeah, that’s really how mine was. Other people said they weren’t like that, but they still felt they were love-shy.
Floss: Okay. I know that you said in the thread that you aren’t an atheist. If it’s okay for me to ask what religion… you said your mother was very religious, what… what kind of religion did you grow up around?
Ice: Um, mainly sort of Catholic-sort of religion. But I’m a Christian… well, I’m not a strict Christian. I don’t, you know… I know the bible, I go to church sometimes. I don’t go much anymore.
Floss: Right.
Ice: I just, you know, I follow… more to do with… it’s less to do with believing in god or whatever, and more to do with *how* you live. In the end that’s, that’s why I chose to stick with it, you know? So.
Floss: No, no that makes perfect sense. Do you think that any religious upbringing you’ve had has contributed to the love-shyness?
Ice: Uhh… hard to say with that one, actually, because I know a few guys on there are, do go to church and stuff, so, yeah. But, to be honest, in this day and age I don’t think it has that big of a factor. I mean, most of us aren’t religious, anyway. The ones that are, they tend to do more… not to do with love-shy, they just tend to be more conservative. 5:55
Floss: Okay. Well, how would you think, or how do you feel that being love-shy has impacted your life?
Ice: It really impacted it when I was younger. I mean, it impacted it now because I’m not a young guy anymore, I’m still, yeah…
Floss: Oh, was about to say if I may ask how old you are?
Ice: Okay, I just recently turned 32.
Floss: Okay. If it makes you feel better, I’m 28, so…
Ice: Yeah, okay. It’s a good age. I had a good 28. I was happy with that year. But, yeah, it did impact me. I’m currently single, still single. I’ve been single for quite a long time, so, you know, when I was younger I didn’t expect to reach this age and still be single, but it happened. 6:50
Floss: Now, you also mentioned earlier in the thread that you had a girlfriend before.
Ice: Right. Yeah, that’s true. I have. Well, if you really...
Floss: [interrupts briefly]
Floss: Oh, no, go ahead…
Ice: If you really want to stretch the term, then, you know, then I’ve had maybe more than one. But, you know, one if you want to say, like, a real relationship “term” or whatever. I would say one, I guess.
Floss: And when did that happen? How old were you?
Ice: That actually happened when I was 26, I think, and it lasted about a year and a half, um, a year. It kind of turned into… well, I found the relationship when I moved to a different country, actually. It’s, yeah, you study these love-shies, these incel guys, as well, and it happens quite a lot, I’ve noticed. They, don’t mind where they’re staying. They get stuck in a rut, so they travel. It’s pretty good advice. It’s what I did. I went to Spain and got a job teaching over there, and found a pretty nice girl. Yeah, and it was that, basically.
Floss: Okay. That sounds, that, you know, sounds very nice, actually. I’m sorry, got a little tongue-tied there, sorry!
Floss: As far as the importance of sex and a long-term relationship…
Ice: Hah, yeah.
Floss: How do you think that “fits into” life? I suppose the importance of it.
Ice: This is where I feel a lot of hate comes in, here. I mean, you see us guys, there’s another couple of guys on there that have given this image of where we’re kind of these sex-crazed, uh, basically “animals,” which is really kind of unfair, I think. I mean, especially on the love-shy forum. 9:10
Floss: Well, uh, and I’ve been guilty of accusing you guys of being that way, as well. So, I… I can’t deny that there’s that viewpoint.
Ice: I mean, there ARE some crazy guys on there. I put up with it, you know, that’s, that’s what happens when people look into and see a couple of bad apples, and think that’s what it’s like, so I’m used to it by now.
Floss: That’s a good viewpoint to have, just “oh, well, okay. A couple of them… euuugh,” but I suppose, in your own words, then, and for your life, what is to you the importance of sex and long-term relationships for yourself?
Ice: Well, I used to think it was much more important than I do now. I think it’s, again, age. Um… I believe that unless you’ve got like a really good family, or maybe nice, good friends… if you’re really religious as well, maybe.
Floss: Have sort of that “stable”...
Ice: I mean, yeah. Most young people want, you know, want sexual relations when they become adults.
Floss: Very true.
Ice: Yeah, so, I think it’s not *not* normal to want that.
Floss: Oh, no. Not at all.
Ice: People just… I know if I met a girl, even when I was younger and she said “oh, let’s take it slow,” or whatever I would have been “oh, yeah, okay,” or whatever. We’re not just, you know, crazy sex fiends. I know some guys, that other site… Slut Hate, they’re more that kind of thing. Those guys are, you know, they want the sex. I think that’s, yeah, if you want to talk about that…
Floss: That was actually a question Simplicity111, uh, sent in to me. So, if you want to go into that…
Ice: Sure.
Floss: [laugh] Well, I suppose we already know your opinion on the slut haters.
Ice: Well, you know, it’s… I take it with a bit of salt. I mean, I can stand the place, I have a look around, but I don’t end up staying. It’s just, you know, they tend to be younger guys on there, which is… I kind of understand, like, I mean when I was a kid and I was talking to older guys, just, I don’t know, older brothers of my friends or something… “Oh, you know you kids, you’re crazy,” or whatever, and I understand that now, I just, I don’t go to places like that. [chuckle] Kids. Young men.
Floss: [voice that even I don’t know what I was doing] Oh, those kids these days! [thank god, back to normal voice] Don’t worry, I can kind of see that. Um, also, do you think that sluthate.com, and we can go away from this if you want, but do you view sluthate.com as, I suppose kind of a toxic environment? I know that, I know that comes off as kind of a “leading” question, so, take it how you will.
Ice: It’s a fair question. To be honest, when it comes to these kinds of things I tend not to have that much of an opinion. I don’t really think about it a lot because it comes out in we’re living in what I call the “new world,” which is where we’re all connected to each other via the internet, your phone, you know, smart television or whatever. It’s pretty hard to control what goes on, really. I know that if you want, if you really have a big problem with it, people are going to say to you “Oh, you know, people have the right to discuss whatever they want.” You know, it’s a “freedom of speech”-type thing. So I just, I just don’t really think about it that much. Is it toxic? I guess it can be. Some of the stuff that gets posted on there, I mean it’s definitely, you know, fairly adult. The stuff. So, yeah, but again, it’s for that market, you know? That target audience. They’ve looked for it, a place like that. They found it. It’s there, you know. It’s almost inevitable in a strange way.
Floss: No, that’s, that’s a very good way of putting it.
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: No, I like how… how that’s put. Um, I suppose, coming back to the loveshy questions, is there anything you feel you could do about it, is there anything you did to yourself or for yourself?
Ice: Yeah, there’s lots of things. I mean, you’ve got to try and be social. I tried getting hobbies, that’s sort of the common answer for these kind of people, get into hobbies. Sports or something like that. I got into music, like a lot of them did. I’d just play in bands and stuff. So, that got me out of the house. Um, just try to improve my networking, talking with friends, trying to meet new people. It’s really just common stuff, really. A loveshy, when it gets pretty deep, deeper on that, you want to try things like dating. Dating sites. Men’s sites, I guess.
Floss: Okay.
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: So pretty much get out there, see who you can meet.
Ice: Right. You can’t just stay in your house. I know a lot of these guys just give up and just stay in their house, play video games. You know, go on the internet. There’s like a famous guy on there, the creation guy. I can understand it in a way, because people get depressed, but…
Floss: It’s almost a- a comfort zone. It’s a nice little bubble that you can…
Ice: The same thing happened to me, I mean. That’s why I tend to give him *some* sympathy because I had a really bad job at one point, and it was tiring, boring, and low-paying at the same time. I didn’t, you know, I was single at the time, as well. I don’t think I had many friends, I had about one friend. My friends, most of them are married; my best friend got married. I had, basically, nothing. I got really depressed, I had to quit my job. I couldn’t work for a bit. Well, you know, I got over it.
Floss: Well, good! Good. Um, well, I, there’s a question from DrChristianTroy… don’t worry, it’s nothing terrible [sorry, doc, threw you under the bus there].
Ice: Oh, it’s alright.
Floss: [laughs] And it’s, uh, “are you currently working?”
Ice: I am, yeah. I work part-time.
Floss: And what do you do?
Ice: I work in an estate-agent’s office. Um, doing administration, stock management, and property management, as well. It’s pretty boring, to be honest. There’s not much business that happens there. It’s part-time, as well, but it’s okay. I’ve had loads of jobs, I mean. Um, I worked in security, I used to work in retail for a little bit. When I was younger I used to work at Subway sandwiches, and I worked once in a bar as a glass collector. And as a teacher, obviously. But I’ve had a fair few jobs.
Floss: If it makes you feel better, I used to work at a Subway as well. [chuckles] I don’t… look very fondly on those days.
Ice: I thought it was okay. It’s better than McD’s, so…
Floss: This is true. Well, I don’t know the difference between, or, at least ambiance-wise, the difference between, uh, British Subway and an American Subway. Or, at least, the customers, but ours were verrrry very rude. So that was… probably most of it.
Ice: Yeah, our customers were okay.
[both laugh]
Ice: Yeah, it was an alright job, to be honest. It was when I was a student.
Floss: Yeah, it’s a very good university job, as well. Or a very good high school job.
Ice: Yes.
Floss: Okay, uh, well I suppose you mentioned Holden, or… well, I do have a few questions about him, if you don’t mind.
Ice: Sure, sure, go ahead.
Floss: When did you first get to know about him?
Ice: Hmm, I think, actually, the *very* first time any sort of contact on the internet with him was a good few years ago, actually. But, the thing is, this was another forum, actually. It was something like… it could have even been imdb.com. He just posted on the forum there, and, then… cause he was promoting his blog. Then, after that, I wasn’t really that interested.
Floss: Do you, uh, remember if this was back in the “government gets girlfriends” days?
Ice: [laughs] I really can’t remember, to be honest. There were people there saying “oh god, this guy’s mad.” So, I didn’t think about it, but I really started talking to him when I joined love-shy, and even then I didn’t really talk to him for a while, for quite a while. He started talking to me about one of our older members, actually, so comparing himself to one of our older members, which I thought was a bit ludicrous. So, I got to know a bit more and, yeah, and we were, despite our differences, but… you know, he, that’s how his life is. That’s what he believes in.
Floss: C’est la vie…
Ice: Right.
Floss: Well, uh, the second question I had, then was, why defend him, I suppose?
Ice: They asked me this on the forum, um, I really don’t think I *am* defending him.
Floss: Okay.
Ice: All I said, I mean, he claims to… I mean, no one, no one wants, for lack of a better word, “bastard children,” do they? Like orphan children?
Floss: Oh, no.
Ice: Terrible things happen to those kids. I mean, you know, it’s not nice. I know no one believes him, but, if there is a chance that maybe there’s some truth behind it, come on, that’s, that’s not good for the world. I mean, what kind of karma is that?
Floss: And that… I don’t know what you’ve read, um, of *his* thread. Uh, I know, I know you came in in the later stages, and that’s… kind of the consensus among the forums, as well, or *close* to the consensus, is that this child doesn’t exist and that he’s telling us this to get a rise out of us.
Ice: That could well be true, but when I think about that I think, but then surely it’s like “the boy who cried wolf” or whatever. Surely there still needs to be someone to put forward the argument and say “Guys, you know, okay, he may be lying, but what if someone else is reading this? Who *does* have that similar situation going on,” like it’s strange, uh, sort of proposal to put forward, but, even if he just wants to get a rise out of everyone… someone still needs to go “look, *if* it’s the truth, then we should think about this kid,” or whatever. I can’t explain it properly.
Floss: Oh, no no. That- it makes, it makes sense to me. “Think about the child, rather than…”
Ice: Yeah, think about the actual *story*. If he’s lying, which he may well could be, but, I mean, the only guy, really. I mean, who’s going to be the more forward? Some guy who’s so bored he makes up these kind of crazy stories, or the guys he’s talking to? Does it really matter, anyway, that some guy’s there going “Wow, I’m thinking about some poor kid out there.” I don’t know, I’m not explaining…
Floss: No, that, that makes sense, don’t worry. Um, just very quickly, I suppose we kind of hinting at that, but how do you think, or what do you think of how the forum, the Kiwi Farms as a whole, has treated him, and… l-like I said, don’t worry, just say what’s on your mind.
Ice: I try not to get too involved. I mean, I just went over there. To be honest I don’t like to just… I still go on love-shy and stuff like that. Um, I don’t even like to spend that much time on Kiwi Farms.
Floss: Okay.
Ice: I, I don’t really get involved, I just see a load of people just slating him and I don’t, I don’t think it’s unfair. He’s said some very, very crazy things. So, um, you know, I just look at it briefly and, y’know “Okay.” Like I said, I don’t [Sorry, IceCat, I couldn’t make that out]
Floss: And I would certainly hope that, um, his views on treating women aren’t…
Ice: Yeah, they’re not typical of, uh, you know, these poor guys who can’t get a girlfriend, so...
Floss: They don’t run around accusing rapists of “being kings,” and…
Ice: No, that’s all him, I mean, I don’t think even his, you know, his, what’s the word… his ultimate role model, the uh, the Franklin guy, I do believe, thinks that kind of thing. That’s, that’s all him.
Floss: And it’s, it’s also my understanding that he’s been laughed off the love-shy forums...
Ice: Yeah, well…
[we interrupt each other for a couple seconds]
Ice: Some people, well, yeah a year, a year or two ago I think he was fairly regular there, and like, very valued. Maybe. Heh, yeah, there were a few, most, a lot of guys there were like “yeah, this guy is kind of nuts,” yeah? So, yeah, he doesn’t post there that much anymore.
Floss: Okay. Um, well, if it’s alright with you, uh, we’re going to wrap this up a little bit. I have, with some questions that I have from the members…
Ice: Yep.
Floss: I, uh, already asked you the question from
@Simplicity111, uh, about sluthate.com.
Ice: Mmhmm.
Floss: Um, well, I have
@autisticdragonkin who asks, uh, “how did you discover that you were loveshy?” I suppose if, if there was a…
[I interrupt him a bit]
Ice: I.. yeah, I didn’t discover it until I was no longer loveshy. Um…
Floss: So there wasn’t really a *moment* that you can think of?
Ice: No, it has to do with social anxiety, I always knew when I was young I didn’t work socially. I wasn’t that good verbally. You know. Maybe to do with, uhh, kind of bilingual, in a way, so… maybe to do with that.
Floss: Okay.
Ice: Yeah, uh, I was shy, anyway. I mean, everyone knows what “shy” means.
Floss: Right.
Ice: [laugh] So, yeah, I got over that when I was, like, some of the stuff I was talking about before. Then I started posting on the internet and I found this site and… well, you know, that was me.
Floss: And there you go!
Ice: Sure.
Floss: Um, and then one more, well, well I have two more questions, um,
@nad7155, uh, wants to know what your daily routine is. Just, kind of a sketch.
Ice: Hmm, it’s pretty boring.
Floss: [chuckle]
Ice: Yeah, it’s, well, I’ve got a job and I get weekends off, so I usually socialize. Um, pff, I’m quite into music. I drink sometimes. I don’t drink as much as I used to. Um, my daily routine during the week is… I work about six hours a day, Monday to Friday, and then, uh, I’m still into mus… I’m used to be into sports, but I’m not so much anymore.
Floss: Okay.
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: What kind of sports did you play, if you don’t mind me asking?
Ice: Martial arts, which I think is good for many, many people. Um, it’s…
Floss: It’s, well, fantastic exercise and…
Ice: Yeah, it’s good. I think everyone should do martial arts at some point in their lives.
Floss: I’ve heard that from a lot of people. That… I’m not going to disagree with you on that one! [laugh]
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: Um, and then… just, um, one last question from, um,
@DrChristianTroy because he has been bugging me constantly about it, and he just wants to know… “Why you so wack?!”
Ice: Um…
Floss: [laugh] You don’t have to answer that terribly seriously.
Ice: Hmm, uh… well… I don’t really use that word, to be honest… [laugh] So…
Floss: Uh, mostly he’d murder me if I didn’t ask it.
Ice: Okay.
Floss: He’s a terrifying gentleman. Very terrifying.
Floss: Alright, um, well, I suppose I can open up the floor to you… is there anything, um, you want to know about the Kiwi Farms? Uh, you can ask some questions people will… I’ll try and… I’ll try and have them respond, I suppose… that makes it sound like I have control… but hopefully if you have some questions I know a few people would respond civilly.
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: And, um, answer, and I suppose if you have any questions for me, uh, ask away.
Ice: Uh, hmm, well… hmm… well, questions for you guys tend to be fairly unanimous in your way of thinking. [laugh] I’ve discovered you… there’s not much room for debate. Um, I understand you have your views. What I think would be something interesting is someone like me asking you guys the, um, most of you would be on-and-off, I guess. You’ve a wife, or something, or a long-term partner. I suppose, or you’re still quite young. Is that fair?
Floss: That’s entirely fair. Um, I know in my case, uh, I’ve had a girlfriend for about the past year…
Ice: Okay.
Floss: So…
Ice: That’s good.
Floss: I can’t speak for a lot of the other members. I know quite a few, um, Kiwi Farms members who are married or in long-term relationships.
Ice: That’s entirely what I expected. Yeah…
Floss: And as… I suppose as far as the, and I don’t, like I said, I can’t answer for everyone, but when it comes to the lack of room for debate, there’s… I suppose it’s the basis of the forum, there. We bring in people who…
Ice: I think it’s fairly fair. I mean, you guys are, uh, we’d actually call you guys “norms.” I mean, I don’t even think… is that offensive?
Floss: No, no, not at all. [Note: Speaking from my point of view here, can’t speak for everyone.]
Ice: You’re basically, you’re norms. Normal people. And we realize that many of you, many of you guys seem to view us as un-good, un-likeable, so, there. That’s why I sort of came on in the first place, you know, “these people, they aren’t too bad, they’re just trying their best.” There are a couple other guys who have gone over there [to love-shy.com], trying to do the same thing.
Floss: And, um, that’s why I asked you to do this interview. Just, kind of…
Ice: I’m glad I did.
Floss: I, I’m glad you came on, as well. Um, alright, well, I suppose that kind of wraps it up. Thank you, thank you very much for coming in, joining me, bringing in your views and opinions, and, uh…
Ice: Yeah.
Floss: And, as I said, thank you. Thank you very much.
Ice: You’re welcome, flossman. No problem.
Floss: Alright, ike-sat… [laugh] er, IceCat. You take care of yourself.
