If God appeared to you and told you something in the Bible was wrong, how would you react?

[Yamaha YM2612]

So I can translate the Bible into Vietnamese, a language I do not know, and there would be no errors because it's infallible? Interesting.

You would obviously have to know Vietnamese.

I didn't say YOU were infallible.

All translations come from 1 of like, 3 sources

 

[Justice Tony]

You would obviously have to know Vietnamese.

I didn't say YOU were infallible.

All translations come from 1 of like, 3 sources

I thought you said the Bible was infallible and I translated the Bible. What gives man?

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

I thought you said the Bible was infallible and I translated the Bible. What gives man?

You translated it. You didn't write it

 

[Justice Tony]

You translated it. You didn't write it

So that Bible, that Bible that I translated is fallible?

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

So that Bible, that Bible that I translated is fallible?

You are putting your hand into it

Think of the telephone game, if you ever played it as a kid

 

[Justice Tony]

You are putting your hand into it

Think of the telephone game, if you ever played it as a kid

Humans put their hand all over it. This is why Sola Scriptura is retarded.

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

Humans put their hand all over it. This is why Sola Scriptura is retarded.

Human hands didn't though. Straight from God to author. That's why jesus was a sola scriptura guy.

Jesus is the Word, the word is Jesus. John 1:1, heretic.

 

[Justice Tony]

Human hands didn't though. Straight from God to author. That's why jesus was a sola scriptura guy.

Jesus is the Word, the word is Jesus. John 1:1, heretic.

You saw how hard of a time people had interpreting Him throughout the Bible. We need a rock to interpret it. You're a Jew just like Martin Luther!

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

You saw how hard of a time people had interpreting Him throughout the Bible. We need a rock to interpret it.

Right. Thats jesus christ. Jesus is the rock The cornerstone that catholics/✡ rejected

YOU might need an interpreter. Jesus is my interpreter

You're a Jew just like Martin Luther!

Protestants don't follow Luther. Jesus and Peter and Paul predate Luther by about 1500 years or something

 

[skykiii]

God wouldn't say that.

I would dismiss it as a demon and move on. Only demons try to say God is wrong

This is the kind of response I expected, and I always wonder how you rationalize the logic headaches it creates.

God is Omnipotent, and yet God, who can do anything, can not contradict a book written thousands of years ago. Ergo anything the book says is fact even against the word of the being you claim authored it.

In essence, even God can not teach you anything new because you've programmed yourself to not even believe its actually God when it happens.

This is before we get into the headaches @Justice Tony rightfully raised (that the Bible has always been a human-edited document) or how Bible-thumpers like yourself tend to have not actually read the Bible to begin with (because--as shown with the Samson example earlier--it tends to not say what people think it says). You've created a paradigm where in some circumstances you literally will not listen to the being you supposedly worship.

 

[NoBueno]

Are we talking about real God? Or Project Blue Beam God? Because it's not God's style I think to pull a Simpsons.

 

[Metallic Blood]

As a matter of fact I find the entire book of Judges (and indeed a lot of early books of the Bible) are inherently misunderstood. In particular, one thing I rarely ever see religious types notice or highlight is that they're implicitly a criticism of God's own followers--Judges is almost entirely "God's people fucked up and it led to them being conquered, then a Judge came along and saved them, but then either they died and the people fucked up, or else the Judge themselves fucked up and got delivered into the enemy's hands."

I mean, you'd be lucky to find a Christian who actually has read the Old Testament besides Psalms and Proverbs lol.

1 Samuel to 2 Kings is my favorite example of this, because although there's a lot of heroic tales from prophets and kings alike (specially King David), most of its content comes down to "Hey kids! Remember when God told us that it was a stupid idea to have a nation ruled by a monarch? Now let's see what He meant by that!"

Just saying, think of anything you hate about today... now question: "did this happen specifically to punish you?"

Not sure if I get exactly what you mean, but I do wanna do a little side tangent anyway:
Is it really unpopular for people to think that today sucks because its God's punishment?

I mean, I suppose I don't hear anyone explicitly mentioning this, but I always had this mindset that most of the current world problems exist solely because of sin and lack of faith, specially from the nations who preach they're "God's country."

 

[Pokemon Conquistador]

I would assume if God appeared before me it was either a government agency using unknown technology to appear as God to random people to gauge what their reactions would be, or I would assume it was an alien pretending to be God. Those would be just as plausible as God visiting me, or as the Devil impersonating God, or as my going crazy and seeing hallucinations. This is probably why God doesn't appear to people in the Modern Age, - because we've all seen that one episode of Star Trek where conmen aliens try to impersonate the Devil, or where God turns out to be an advanced robot, and we'd need better proof of His existence than a shiny man coming out of the sky with His voice on reverb.

That being said, I wonder sometimes if God isn't like the Devs in the Shadow of the Colossus remake. The original game seemed to hint at all sorts of juicy secrets and it inspired a nearly religious online community dedicated to finding those secrets. Then the game maps were released and it turned out, there were no secrets at all. But then the Devs for the remake decided to go ahead and make the secrets real, as a reward for the creative speculation on the part of the Seeker community....

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

This is the kind of response I expected, and I always wonder how you rationalize the logic headaches it creates.

God is Omnipotent, and yet God, who can do anything, can not contradict a book written thousands of years ago. Ergo anything the book says is fact even against the word of the being you claim authored it.

He authored it. Since God is truth itself, anything He says will, by the laws of logic, be congruent with what He told Moses or Paul or isiah, etc.

It's not really a difficult concept

In essence, even God can not teach you anything new because you've programmed yourself to not even believe its actually God when it happens.

This is before we get into the headaches @Justice Tony rightfully raised (that the Bible has always been a human-edited document)

Thats an incorrect statement. Theres never been any contemporanous copies found that suggest any alteration

The only things we've ever found that have been altered are copies of books written centuries later

or how Bible-thumpers like yourself tend to have not actually read the Bible to begin with (because--as shown with the Samson example earlier--it tends to not say what people think it says). You've created a paradigm where in some circumstances you literally will not listen to the being you supposedly worship.

I'd love to hear why you think I haven't read the bible. What about samson?

The being I worship doesn't lie and doesn't contradict Himself. Again, he is a plumbline and cornerstone of truth itself. Just in the same way He is life itself

And so, if a being appeared that said something contradictory to what God said, it by default, could not be God

 

[Metallic Blood]

And so, if a being appeared that said something contradictory to what God said, it by default, could not be God

That's the thing, what did God truly did say? And how do we know the Bible we read is 100% the world of God?

Like let's just take the New World and KJV for example: the Jehovah Witness Bible says that the Trinity doesn't exist, that the Holy Spirit isn't a being but actually a "force/energy" and that Jesus isn't God, but we still need to follow Him so we can come back to God. Meanwhile KJV says that the Trinity exists, the Holy Spirit is a living being just like God (the Father) and Jesus the Christ, and that Jesus is God (John 8:58}, which version is the true version?

How about the "exclusive" "Catholic" books in their Bible like Tobit and Maccabees, are they the word of God? If they are, why don't all Bibles have them? And if they aren't, then there's at least one Bible which is incorrect. Don't even get me started on the many apocryphas that were written for many centuries.

TL;DR: God will never lie, but as humans, we fail to write down His Perfection.

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

That's the thing, what did God truly did say? And how do we know the Bible we read is 100% the world of God?

Because of the prophecies that came true, the consistency of His character and the congruence and cross referencces between books.

Sure, it is possible (though nearly impossible) that moses or another prophet could have made some lucky guesses about things. But not every single time

Like let's just take the New World and KJV for example: the Jehovah Witness Bible says that the Trinity doesn't exist,

But the bible does. JWs are heretic

Demonic and heretical religions do not retroactively undo or falsify what was already documented.

I suppose this is a bit of authority bias BUT who is more reliable on something like the trinity?

Moses, who's documentation has been proven as history as played out? Or some random guy in the 18th century or whatever who consistently has been debunked?

that the Holy Spirit isn't a being but actually a "force/energy" and that Jesus isn't God, but we still need to follow Him so we can come back to God. Meanwhile KJV says that the Trinity exists, the Holy Spirit is a living being just like God (the Father) and Jesus the Christ, and that Jesus is God (John 8:58}, which version is the true version?

The kjv isn't the one that says these things. The kjv is a translation, it's not an original source. Arguments can be made that it's not an accurate translation, but kjv is merely a translation of books written way before. Kjv doesn't make any docrtinal claims on its own

How about the "exclusive" "Catholic" books in their Bible like Tobit and Maccabees, are they the word of God?

No. These are historical chronicle and biographies.

If they are, why don't all Bibles have them?

Because they aren't about jesus and thus not really about the story of humanity and our deliverance. These books are probably legitimate in what they say, and accurate documentation, but they aren't relevant to where we ultimately end up and how this whole "reality" thing ends up

the Protestants are concerned solely with jesus, so books that aren't about Him are not included.

And if they aren't, then there's at least one Bible which is incorrect. Don't even get me started on the many apocryphas.

Some apocryphas are accurate, most are heretical and contradictory to the actual word.

TL;DR: God will never lie, but as humans, we fail to write down His Perfection.

And He would allow that you suppose? He would allow Moses or Paul to incorrectly transmit this CRUCIAL literally life saving information?

I'm of the mind that the prophets weren't in a conscious state when writing anyway. They were writing things beyond human comprehension

 

[skykiii]

He authored it. Since God is truth itself, anything He says will, by the laws of logic, be congruent with what He told Moses or Paul or isiah, etc.

It's not really a difficult concept

Except it kinda is, actually.

When one says something like "God is truth" or "all Truth comes from the Bible," what exactly does that mean? A lot of people like to mean in terms of literal fact, which is where you get handwringing over whether this or that Bible story literally happened exactly as described.

I tend to instead interpret it as more a sort of wisdom/emotive truth, as ultimately that's more meaningful.

Whether or not Samson was a real person isn't as important as what thoughts or feelings it inspires in me, for example.

Speaking of which:

What about samson?

Earlier in this thread there was someone who was all like "Oh, the message of Samson is don't trust women," and I had a post explaining that no, that's a painfully shallow reading of Samson, especially as Delilah only pops up at the end of his story. It's a little like saying Huckleberry Finn is about dealing with feuding families just because there's a chapter where Huck meets some.

Thats an incorrect statement. Theres never been any contemporanous copies found that suggest any alteration

Wait, huh? Weren't there like five or six different versions of the Bible floating around back then? I know I heard something about a version called Septuagint, and that the need for standardization is why the Council of Nicea happened.

I'd love to hear why you think I haven't read the bible.

In my general experience Bible Absolutism tends to fall apart as soon as one starts reading and it becomes clear that such was never really the intended experience.

I'm of the mind that the prophets weren't in a conscious state when writing anyway. They were writing things beyond human comprehension

...... Are you just fucking with us? Are the parts "beyond human comprehension" in the room with us right now?

Also, you say that books were excluded from the Protestant Bible because they had nothing to do with Jesus.... curious how Ruth, Song of Solomon, or Jonah fit into that then.

(And on a personal level this interpretation bugs me. Inherent in the idea that the Old Testament is all just leading up to Jesus is that none of it has value on its own, but is basically just backstory before getting to the "really important" part).

 

[analrapist]

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Really depends on what this vision tells me. It will be compared to Scripture and accepted or rejected on that basis.

"Hey, so where Scripture reads ἀρσενοκοίτης, yeah, that means sexual degenerates of all breeds." -- Gotcha. Check.

"Hey, so where John recorded Jesus as saying 'he who believes in me has eternal life', well actually, here's the list of additional requirements." -- Out, demonic vision!

 

[Metallic Blood]

And He would allow that you suppose? He would allow Moses or Paul to incorrectly transmit this CRUCIAL literally life saving information?

I'm of the mind that the prophets weren't in a conscious state when writing anyway. They were writing things beyond human comprehension

Oh no, I agree with you, I 100% believe what Moses and Paul wrote is the true Word of God since both were prophets

BUT, How can I tell what I'm reading in my [current year] Bible is pinpoint accurate what Moses wrote thousands of years ago.

Is there a perfect Bible translation? Or would I need to go through many different translations + learn Hebrew for the original manuscripts (if all of them still exist) to get the pure Word of God? And if it did exist, why hasn't anyone made a pinpoint accurate translation of it yet, and what's stopping God from saying "this is inaccurate, Here's what I truly spoke to My servant John thousands of years ago"?

EDIT:

Also, you say that books were excluded from the Protestant Bible because they had nothing to do with Jesus.... curious how Ruth, Song of Solomon, or Jonah fit into that then.

To be fair, Ruth mentions how she would be an ancestor of King David (therefore Jesus) and Jonah is super important and showcases what would happen to Jesus' life (3 days in darkness, but then be reborn/spit out of the fish), also Jonah is probably my favorite Old Testament book so I'm biased towards it lol.

Song of Solomon... well I heard some people say this can be a symbolism how God/Jesus sees His Church, but after reading it, I REALLY don't like thinking about this.

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

Except it kinda is, actually.

When one says something like "God is truth" or "all Truth comes from the Bible," what exactly does that mean? A lot of people like to mean in terms of literal fact, which is where you get handwringing over whether this or that Bible story literally happened exactly as described.

I tend to instead interpret it as more a sort of wisdom/emotive truth, as ultimately that's more meaningful.

Whether or not Samson was a real person isn't as important as what thoughts or feelings it inspires in me, for example.

John 1:1

Earlier in this thread there was someone who was all like "Oh, the message of Samson is don't trust women," and I had a post explaining that no, that's a painfully shallow reading of Samson, especially as Delilah only pops up at the end of his story. It's a little like saying Huckleberry Finn is about dealing with feuding families just because there's a chapter where Huck meets some.

Samson story is a biography

It doesn't really have a deeper philosophical meaning

Wait, huh? Weren't there like five or six different versions of the Bible floating around back then?

no

I know I heard something about a version called Septuagint, and that the need for standardization is why the Council of Nicea happened.

That's not a different version. It's just the Greek translation. It doesn't have any major literative differences outside of some grammatical changes

In my general experience Bible Absolutism tends to fall apart as soon as one starts reading and it becomes clear that such was never really the intended experience.

Says who?

What makes your interpretation better than mine wherein upon my reading it only made sense as a literal document (at least the books that were written as such)?

We both read it, and came to different conclusions. So how do we decide? We'll, mine glorifies God. Yours glorifies your ego.

"Lol, this book is obviously metaphor, not literal, I'm so smart I've determined that it couldnt be real"

... Are you just fucking with us? Are the parts "beyond human comprehension" in the room with us right now?

Idk what this means. I notice often times your ego compels you to try to sound clever or funny instead of just saying what you mean.

Try this one again

Also, you say that books were excluded from the Protestant Bible because they had nothing to do with Jesus.... curious how Ruth, Song of Solomon, or Jonah fit into that then.

Every book of the protestant Bible is about the messiah

Ruth was an ancestor or jesus, the song of Solomon is a metaphor for God's relationship with man, and Jonah is a prophecy of Christ's death and resurrection

And on a personal level this interpretation bugs me. Inherent in the idea that the Old Testament is all just leading up to Jesus is that none of it has value on its own, but is basically just backstory before getting to the "really important" part).

It doesn't have value on its own. It's documentation to explain where Jesus came from and why, to add legitimacy and proof to His claims when He arrived and will arrive again

The bible is the biography of the human race and how we get home, and how Jesus brings us home

Oh no, I agree with you, I 100% believe what Moses and Paul wrote is the true Word of God since both were prophets

BUT, How can I tell what I'm reading in my [current year] Bible is pinpoint accurate what Moses wrote thousands of years ago.

Does it glorify God? Does it match up with how reality ended up playing out? Does it match with what science and archeology have discovered since?

In short, does it make sense?

granted, because of how languages work, some words will be changed. For example in revelation where it says there will be clear gold...thats a mistranslation. Theres no english word to describe what they were saying

Is there a perfect Bible translation? Or would I need to go through many different translations + learn Hebrew for the original manuscripts (if all of them still exist) to get the pure Word of God? And if it did exist, why hasn't anyone made a pinpoint accurate translation of it yet, and what's stopping God from saying "this is inaccurate, Here's what I truly spoke to My servant John thousands of years ago"?

god doesnt hold ignorance against you. Jesus sinplified all of this. Sure, learning allnthis and doing the research doesnt hurt.

but when the people asked how to get into heaven, what the most important commandments, etc.

Jesus simply says believe in Him, doesn't he?

EDIT:



To be fair, Ruth mentions how she would be an ancestor of King David (therefore Jesus) and Jonah is super important and showcases what would happen to Jesus' life (3 days in darkness, but then be reborn/spit out of the fish), also Jonah is probably my favorite Old Testament book so I'm biased towards it lol.

Song of Solomon... well I heard some people say this can be a symbolism how God/Jesus sees His Church, but after reading it, I REALLY don't like thinking about this.

Man it is a little weird because of how the world has poisoned out view of sex. But sex is about love first and foremost and marriage itself is an analogy for God's bond with humanity.