I'm so tired, how do I turn to the holy?

[AbyssGazer]

I'm so tired of chasing and chasing the ever elusive happiness. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. It doesn't seem to be under my control to manifest it. And if something is merely arbitrarily permitted to you, not manifested at your will, does it have any value at all?

I grew up in a non-religious family, in a non-religious country. I have flirted with many spiritual denominations, but I have never found salvation. Where can I find the holiness, the lack of which defines all that my eye can see?

This thread probably comes out as melodramatic faggotry, and maybe it is. Maybe the answer is just to shut the fuck up and live. But it sure would be great to live something more worthwhile than a race to the bottom.

Shitposts and seriousposts are welcome all the same.

 

[AnsemSoD1]

Just pray, maybe go to Confession if your a Catholic.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

seriousposts are welcome

Now this looks like a job for me

The way I see it, happiness is not something that's dispensed from above or granted by the universe
Accordingly, chasing happiness like it's a fleeting shadow will always feel hollow
In my view, happiness is an effect, not a cause
As in, it's the emotional result of living in full contact with reality, by your own judgment, in pursuit of your chosen values

I don't believe in the supernatural (for lack of evidence), thus the only miracle that actually exists is the raw, unfiltered fact that reality is what it is, and that your mind can know it and act within it
So you gotta appreciate existence itself, rather than try to surrender to some higher power or dissolve into something bigger than yourself
Like, the chase for some external glow so you can kneel before it is kinda insane when you got a perfectly functional identifiable and interactable reality right there in front of you

If happiness currently feels outside of your control, perhaps check whether you're trying to live by standards that aren't truly yours
Or goals that are half-heartedly accepted or absorbed, rather than chosen with clarity
If you're living as if someone else owns your life, you can't really experience the steady flow of fulfillment, can you?
Perhaps instead of asking where the holy is, ask yourself
What is real? What do I know? What do I want to build with it?
The "holiness" you seek is not out there waiting to be bestowed upon you like a forum sticker
It's the fire in you when you choose to stand in reality, fully awake and ready to shape your life as yours alone

 

[Buckaroo]

I have flirted with many spiritual denominations, but I have never found salvation.

You wont find it like that. You need to take it seriously and actually dedicate yourself to religion before you start to feel a difference.

Find your church, go to that church, and become a part of that community.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

I'm so tired of chasing and chasing the ever elusive happiness. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. It doesn't seem to be under my control to manifest it. And if something is merely arbitrarily permitted to you, not manifested at your will, does it have any value at all?

I grew up in a non-religious family, in a non-religious country. I have flirted with many spiritual denominations, but I have never found salvation. Where can I find the holiness, the lack of which defines all that my eye can see?

This thread probably comes out as melodramatic faggotry, and maybe it is. Maybe the answer is just to shut the fuck up and live. But it sure would be great to live something more worthwhile than a race to the bottom.

Shitposts and seriousposts are welcome all the same.

Where else can hedonism lead but to the unhappy realization that happiness is ephemeral, short, and chasing it is a hedonic treadmill?

I found solace in the writing of Thomas Aquinas, who's job among other things was to square greek philosophy with christian theology. The core of a belief in God, is the idea that pure goodness exists. And to call that goodness God. It's an idea I've taken to my heart.

Beliefs and values are an ideal that everybody invariably falls short of. The struggle is not easier than the struggle to find happiness. In some ways it's harder. It's not more pleasurable either. But like the difference between a potato stew or a chocolate candy, it is more fulfilling and nourishing. When you pursue virtue and doing good things, it will have been worth it for its own sake. There are times when you might feel miserable, but also full of purpose.

I ended up going to a lot of different churches, one for a couple of years. But in the end they didn't seem aligned with the good and virtue to the degree I hoped, so it's become more of a solitary pursuit. Some people find it there. I didn't.

A movie to inspire this kind of pursuit of virtue is "hacksaw ridge". A story based on what a strength of belief can bring out in a man. It's based on a true story. They had to tone down some of the heroics and downplay it because people wouldn't believe the true heroic self-sacrifice of this man.

Also the actual hacksaw ridge was pretty small, but it makes for a good movie.

Something to inspire you. To find hope.

 

[Otterly]

Re: @XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG s post.
this is I think the answer. I personally do believe in God, but the answer holds whether you do or you don’t. Happiness isn’t given from outside. It’s an emergent property that arises when conditions are met.
Depression, the flip side, is you realising that something is wrong, with how you are living your life. It’s a sign to examine life and examine it hard.
I do believe in God. I have ‘felt’ that sort of divine presence maybe once, and that only for a second. So fleeting I could doubt it. I do t expect to be given happiness, or to be shown and given a ready made ‘belief’ or assurance everything is there. I don’t expect to walk into a church and have a spiritual experience. Maybe some do but life hasn’t been like that.
All you can do is live an examined life, live according to your personal morals, and strive for understanding, goodness, and all that.

 

[Trimalchio]

But in the end they didn't seem aligned with the good and virtue to the degree I hoped, so it's become more of a solitary pursuit. Some people find it there. I didn't.

I really relate to OP's feeling of spiritual homelessness, but I also struggle to connect with religious communities. I instinctively rebel against groupthink and am quick to sniff out hypocrisy, so I just stick to my own private beliefs. It's lonely, but I can't bear feeling like a hypocrite. I take it you're something of a lone ranger Catholic now?

 

[Green_Pine_Tree]

And if something is merely arbitrarily permitted to you, not manifested at your will, does it have any value at all?

You could take comfort in determinism and believe that God has ordained everything that happens in your life. However, you have trouble identifying with any belief system. I'm not anywhere near a psychologist, but it seems like you have trouble affecting your own surroundings. No human being can manifest the neurochemical state that they want.*

*Maybe, who really knows. There are some really unfortunate stories out there of things seen out in the wild. Referred to schizo conspiracy thread.

I also grew up in a nonreligious family but eventually something (Catholicism) "just felt right". Hopefully something will "feel right" for you one day. That's all you can really hope for, I guess.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

I really relate to OP's feeling of spiritual homelessness, but I also struggle to connect with religious communities. I instinctively rebel against groupthink and am quick to sniff out hypocrisy, so I just stick to my own private beliefs. It's lonely, but I can't bear feeling like a hypocrite. I take it you're something of a lone ranger Catholic now?

Personally I think the reason is just as likely that I'm falling short of their virtues and judging them inaccurately as result.

 

[Neodanthril]

Christian here

Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't

Yeah

It doesn't seem to be under my control to manifest it.

Yeah

And if something is merely arbitrarily permitted to you, not manifested at your will, does it have any value at all?

Idk there is a lot of awesome stuff that I had no part in manifesting but was merely fortunate enough to experience. For example the arrangement of the sky on a cloudy day, view from a mountaintop, seeing pretty women, shooting a gun, etc.

Whati think you are trying to get at is that you feel sad and you hope religion will fix that. Sorry to say I don't think there is any serious religion that promises infinite dopamine or to turn your brain into a computer where you can run the dopamine program whenever you feel like it. The bad times and the bad feelings never go away. Obviously things can get better depending on where you start, for example if you are a crack whore and you find a real religion and truly believe you will stop smoking crack and prostituting yourself and with help get a real job and have a support system that will help you find new friends that aren't pimps and or junkies. But you will still get sad. What you get sad about changes through so that's nice. You are also better equipped for the hard times so that's also nice

 

[Chicha Drinker]

Holiness as observable in people...by definition doesnt boast and draw attention to itself. So the only way to see the holiness and good will that is indeed around us is to take the time to observe the people, preferably in small communities in real life, volunteering events, small churches, small charities, etc. You will find these things in spades, and almost always with these people, God (christian) is the fundamental motivator at the bottom of it all

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Non-denominational is the way to go, read the Bible yourself. Secondarily, Catholicism; despite its faults it is a very structured and straightforward way to engage with Christianity, probably objectively a good starting point.

 

[AbyssGazer]

Coming back to this thread sober, I cringe at the woe-is-me mentality of my OP. It is quite ridiculous to try to treat religion or spirituality as some form of safety blanket. Spiritual progress is a struggle, sometimes it lets you down into weakness. Let the OP stand as an example of that.

I appreciate all of your thoughtful responses. Keep up the great eternal fight.

 

[AbyssGazer]

Now this looks like a job for me

The way I see it, happiness is not something that's dispensed from above or granted by the universe
Accordingly, chasing happiness like it's a fleeting shadow will always feel hollow
In my view, happiness is an effect, not a cause
As in, it's the emotional result of living in full contact with reality, by your own judgment, in pursuit of your chosen values

I don't believe in the supernatural (for lack of evidence), thus the only miracle that actually exists is the raw, unfiltered fact that reality is what it is, and that your mind can know it and act within it
So you gotta appreciate existence itself, rather than try to surrender to some higher power or dissolve into something bigger than yourself
Like, the chase for some external glow so you can kneel before it is kinda insane when you got a perfectly functional identifiable and interactable reality right there in front of you

If happiness currently feels outside of your control, perhaps check whether you're trying to live by standards that aren't truly yours
Or goals that are half-heartedly accepted or absorbed, rather than chosen with clarity
If you're living as if someone else owns your life, you can't really experience the steady flow of fulfillment, can you?
Perhaps instead of asking where the holy is, ask yourself
What is real? What do I know? What do I want to build with it?
The "holiness" you seek is not out there waiting to be bestowed upon you like a forum sticker
It's the fire in you when you choose to stand in reality, fully awake and ready to shape your life as yours alone

This resonates. This is the way I usually try to approach my existence. The difficult part about finding what's real is that, at least for me, "realness" conflates with happiness and carries the same problems as described in my OP. I.e. it's there when it is, and isn't when it isn't. There's no foundation.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

This resonates. This is the way I usually try to approach my existence. The difficult part about finding what's real is that, at least for me, "realness" conflates with happiness and carries the same problems as described in my OP. I.e. it's there when it is, and isn't when it isn't. There's no foundation.

I think the problem comes from treating "realness" like an emotional state rather than what it actually is

Reality is always there, it doesn't come and go
Your awareness of reality might waver, your mood might shift, but reality itself is unchanging, that's the foundation
Neither happiness nor suffering are proof of reality, happiness and suffering are signals to you about how well your actions and choices align with what is real

So if you find yourself feeling disconnected, instead of trying to force happiness or force a sense of reality, gotta ask yourself: What is? What do I know for sure right now?
Even if it's as simple as "I exist, I am conscious, and there is a world", start there
Clarity is what brings stability, and happiness follows from that

Like, the foundation you're looking for is the certainty that existence exists, and that your mind has the power to know it
Everything else is built on that

 

[souschef]

If you want a non christian view on that, you should check buddhism even if you just want some insight

Speaking in a non proselythising way, dharma teaches you that suffering is ever present in life, and has a cause which is craving

More you crave, more you want, more you suffer. So if you constantly seeking happiness you won't really get it. So instead of seeking what makes you suffer, a better approach is to accept that nothing is permanent, neither happiness or suffering. It's all a cycle that goes on till you break from it

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

'm so tired of chasing and chasing the ever elusive happiness. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. It doesn't seem to be under my control to manifest it. And if something is merely arbitrarily permitted to you, not manifested at your will, does it have any value at all?

I grew up in a non-religious family, in a non-religious country. I have flirted with many spiritual denominations, but I have never found salvation. Where can I find the holiness, the lack of which defines all that my eye can see?

You know, those are a long time in my life. While I was chasing all these things I thought would make me happy, the happiest I ever was was sleeping on my friends couch playing Smash Bros with him. Remember that when you all depressed and you're surrounded by random nonsense, happiness is a fleeting thing to enjoy it. And grasp it in your hands, in that love would go. Sounds cliche, but that's the truth. You will be miserable probably longer than you will be happy. That's the truth. But eventually you will find your happiness. It's OK God loves you or something.

 

[Slap47]

This resonates. This is the way I usually try to approach my existence. The difficult part about finding what's real is that, at least for me, "realness" conflates with happiness and carries the same problems as described in my OP. I.e. it's there when it is, and isn't when it isn't. There's no foundation.

The unfortunate reality of religion is that its based on faith and the power of belief. When picking and choosing these religions you are simply doing it on vibes and aesthetics which at face value sounds like a terrible way to find "realness" or truth (because it is).

Sadness and apathy are just natural responses to the world. Instead of finding a group to give money to consider self-reflection and discovery. Try a new video game, go hiking, get a different job, read a book. look for a new cow on Kiwifarms to laugh at.

 

[Male Idiot]

Embrace the Chuddha. Or you want to keep being normie friendly, become a monk. But choose one of the happy wine making orders not the tryong to convert cannibal niggers ones.