Impractical weapons, armour, and equipment - Mike Sparks spinoff

[The Dude]

Neat to know someone knows more about the G11 that I didn't know. I had heard it was a good weapon, though. That's some neat stuff there. We need to talk guns at some point.

Well, the PDWs are made more for penetrating body armor, though with the amount of 9mm stuff they have out these days, there's stuff that's even better. The thing is that a PDW would be better against an armored soldier, but not an unarmored one. They're more limited in their usage, but probably better for military vs military stuff.

Well, ever since the end of the Cold War the chances of Western forces going up against a proper military have dropped dramatically. When the P90 was designed everyone thought we'd be fighting in European streets against the Soviets...until the bombs dropped, any way. But since then we've been going up against unarmored irregular and terrorist forces, so PDWs really don't have much of a place in the modern battlefields.

Edit: PDWs were also designed for troops who weren't on the front lines (cooks, artillery crews, support staff, etc.) to have a light and compact weapon more effective than a pistol without the weight and bulk of a rifle.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Neat to know someone knows more about the G11 that I didn't know. I had heard it was a good weapon, though. That's some neat stuff there. We need to talk guns at some point.

Well, the PDWs are made more for penetrating body armor, though with the amount of 9mm stuff they have out these days, there's stuff that's even better. The thing is that a PDW would be better against an armored soldier, but not an unarmored one. They're more limited in their usage, but probably better for military vs military stuff.

What do you mean? Piercing armour is about bullet mass and velocity. Having more mass and velocity also increases the stopping power of a bullet.

 

[Reynard]

What do you mean? Piercing armour is about bullet mass and velocity. Having more mass and velocity also increases the stopping power of a bullet.

Look at the TT-33 or the PPSh-41. Their bullet had little stopping power but could penetrate helmets no issue. PDWS are similar in that they lack stopping power but have good penetration.

 

[Mason Verger]

When your armor can't stop a Chinese guy with a stick..

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Look at the TT-33 or the PPSh-41. Their bullet had little stopping power but could penetrate helmets no issue. PDWS are similar in that they lack stopping power but have good penetration.

If the bullet is designed properly then you can absolutely have a combination of stopping power and penetration of armor.

You hear people talk about the 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 and say "The AK round has more stopping power because it's heavier!" when every single ballistic test you see, the 7.62 round cavitates less and is more likely to just punch through flesh whereas the 5.56 round is going so fast that when it hits meat it cavitates and creates a large amount of tissue damage at the wound.

I imagine that a properly designed PDW round could act the same way - very fast muzzle velocity which in turn causes cavitation upon hit, maybe some sort of offset penetrator in the bullet itself that will punch through armor if the bullet hits armor, whereas if it hits flesh the bullet will have enough ability to deform and tumble.

Back on topic: I was always fascinated by armies trying to make every soldier some sort of cyberpunk computer on legs with a billion sensors and cameras and shit, with little flip-down heads up displays and visors and whatever.

I seems like a bunch of countries have tried this in the past and I feel like we're maybe at the cusp of someone actually making it somewhat of a success. Maybe in 10-15 years.

But up until now all the attempts have looked like this:

Look at that dough-faced motherfucker and his massive fucking gun.

 

[Reynard]

If the bullet is designed properly then you can absolutely have a combination of stopping power and penetration of armor.

You hear people talk about the 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 and say "The AK round has more stopping power because it's heavier!" when every single ballistic test you see, the 7.62 round cavitates less and is more likely to just punch through flesh whereas the 5.56 round is going so fast that when it hits meat it cavitates and creates a large amount of tissue damage at the wound.

I imagine that a properly designed PDW round could act the same way - very fast muzzle velocity which in turn causes cavitation upon hit, maybe some sort of offset penetrator in the bullet itself that will punch through armor if the bullet hits armor, whereas if it hits flesh the bullet will have enough ability to deform and tumble.

Back on topic: I was always fascinated by armies trying to make every soldier some sort of cyberpunk computer on legs with a billion sensors and cameras and shit, with little flip-down heads up displays and visors and whatever.

I seems like a bunch of countries have tried this in the past and I feel like we're maybe at the cusp of someone actually making it somewhat of a success. Maybe in 10-15 years.

But up until now all the attempts have looked like this:

Look at that dough-faced motherfucker and his massive fucking gun.

Oh, obviously! I'm just saying that those bullets used in said weapons were an example of one and not the other. You can totally have a round that has both stopping power and penetration, as the vast amount of 9mm variants on the market today have been doing.

The thing with the 5.56 is that it require a certain barrel length. In a full-sized M16, it'll do exactly what you said, but in the Colt Commando/CAR-15, I've heard that it was unable to penetrate windows and did little damage, hence the weapon is never used and the M4 took its place. I think the CAR-15 really tainted some people's views of the round, just like the L85A1 doomed the vastly superior L85A2 though the anecdotes that come wit it.

Hah! Yeah, he's got that baby face thing going on!

 

[Pointless Pedant]

If the bullet is designed properly then you can absolutely have a combination of stopping power and penetration of armor.

You hear people talk about the 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 and say "The AK round has more stopping power because it's heavier!" when every single ballistic test you see, the 7.62 round cavitates less and is more likely to just punch through flesh whereas the 5.56 round is going so fast that when it hits meat it cavitates and creates a large amount of tissue damage at the wound.

I imagine that a properly designed PDW round could act the same way - very fast muzzle velocity which in turn causes cavitation upon hit, maybe some sort of offset penetrator in the bullet itself that will punch through armor if the bullet hits armor, whereas if it hits flesh the bullet will have enough ability to deform and tumble.

Back on topic: I was always fascinated by armies trying to make every soldier some sort of cyberpunk computer on legs with a billion sensors and cameras and shit, with little flip-down heads up displays and visors and whatever.

I seems like a bunch of countries have tried this in the past and I feel like we're maybe at the cusp of someone actually making it somewhat of a success. Maybe in 10-15 years.

But up until now all the attempts have looked like this:

Look at that dough-faced motherfucker and his massive fucking gun.

Exoskeletons are a good idea if good enough batteries are available. Troops already damage their bodies from carrying loads of heavy gear around, never mind if more stuff gets added in future. The reason why they haven't been implemented is problems with power, since the exoskeleton running out of it in the middle of battle would be disastrous.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Exoskeletons are a good idea if good enough batteries are available. Troops already damage their bodies from carrying loads of heavy gear around, never mind if more stuff gets added in future. The reason why they haven't been implemented is problems with power, since the exoskeleton running out of it in the middle of battle would be disastrous.

That's unlikely to happen in any near future, barring some miraculous increases in efficiency over current electric motors and ability to store power increasing not by 100% but by like 1500%.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

That's unlikely to happen in any near future, barring some miraculous increases in efficiency over current electric motors and ability to store power increasing not by 100% but by like 1500%.

Battery technology is a major focus at the moment. Exoskeletons aren't a viable solution at present, but they may be in a few decades' time. It depends what you mean by the near future; if you mean by 2027, probably not, but by 2047 things may be very different.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Battery technology is a major focus at the moment. Exoskeletons aren't a viable solution at present, but they may be in a few decades' time. It depends what you mean by the near future; if you mean by 2027, probably not, but by 2047 things may be very different.

I honestly hope that by 2047 we'll be advanced enough to where I can just get my brain scooped out of my dilapidated meat body and transplanted into an android body like Ghost in the Shell.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I honestly hope that by 2047 we'll be advanced enough to where I can just get my brain scooped out of my dilapidated meat body and transplanted into an android body like Ghost in the Shell.

There are highly theoretical proposals for "mind uploading" where someone's brain data is uploaded into a robot, which is a similar proposal except without the physical brain, which would get old and die itself just like any other organic matter. Putting a brain in a robot won't stop it from ageing.

 

[Taily Puff]

https://sneed-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e7/01/8b/e7018b02e1ab0c1cfba8cd21e9c39ea5.jpg

To be fair though, if someone rushed at me swinging that, I'd freak the fuck out and probably scream like a little girl.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the .577 Tyrannosaurus round.

I can appreciate any experiment in overkill, but a weapon that requires most people to physically pick it up in between shots is pretty much useless. I guess unless you're being charged by an actual T-Rex or something.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

To be fair though, if someone rushed at me swinging that, I'd freak the fuck out and probably scream like a little girl.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the .577 Tyrannosaurus round.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wrImp-ek3bI
I can appreciate any experiment in overkill, but a weapon that requires most people to physically pick it up in between shots is pretty much useless. I guess unless you're being charged by an actual T-Rex or something.

4 bore stopping rifles were somewhat similar and were useful if charged by an elephant on safari. They were never intended for use in battle.

 

[ICametoLurk]

View attachment 202453

When your armor can't stop a Chinese guy with a stick..

TBF unless it's really padded armor is useless against blunt force trauma.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

TBF unless it's really padded armor is useless against blunt force trauma.

Try getting punched in the head wearing a steel helmet and then try without.

It's true heavy weapons like war hammers could break bones through armour, but they'd do even more damage without it.

 

[cumrobbery]

Chainmail when worn without any padding/secondary armor underneath. Its just as vulnerable against a blunt force weapon as normal clothes. Roman chainmail was actually double layered on the areas that weren't protected by the massive shields that they used.

 

[Francis E. Dec Esc.]

In 1864, the Union Army issued a .52 caliber Sharps cavalry carbine that had a grain grinder built into the stock. It was popularly known as the "coffee grinder", but it was actually supposed to process grain into horse fodder.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Chainmail when worn without any padding/secondary armor underneath. Its just as vulnerable against a blunt force weapon as normal clothes. Roman chainmail was actually double layered on the areas that weren't protected by the massive shields that they used.

Even without a gambeson underneath, maille still stops slashes from sharp weapons and reduces the impact of arrows. It's less effective without the padding, but it isn't useless.

If you want useless armour, check out this fantasy """armour""" studded leather vest.

Stab between the studs and it's just a leather jacket.

 

[Count groudon]

Spoiler

Siberian bear hunting armor. Ironically it was created by an artist for an exibit and was never really intended for actual use, it unfortunately still suffers from the same flaws you would expect from something covered head to toe in spikes. While wearing it you would be pretty much a danger to everything around you and even the wearer wouldn't be safe from impaling parts of their bodies on their own armor. The actual spikes themselves are also a pain in the fact that if the wearer fell over or was struck with a reasonably heavy object they would make the impact even more jarring. Hell, just getting the thing on would br a time consuming process since it requires delicate handling and carelessness would most likely result in a hole on the wearers hand. While it does look very cool and I would undoubtedly wear this if I went on an autistic rampage to keep people from restraining me, if you were to wear this while going up against an actual bear the spikes would most likely only piss it off making the ensuing mauling all the more violent.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Spoiler

View attachment 202762

Siberian bear hunting armor. Ironically it was created by an artist for an exibit and was never really intended for actual use, it unfortunately still suffers from the same flaws you would expect from something covered head to toe in spikes. While wearing it you would be pretty much a danger to everything around you and even the wearer wouldn't be safe from impaling parts of their bodies on their own armor. The actual spikes themselves are also a pain in the fact that if the wearer fell over or was struck with a reasonably heavy object they would make the impact even more jarring. Hell, just getting the thing on would br a time consuming process since it requires delicate handling and carelessness would most likely result in a hole on the wearers hand. While it does look very cool and I would undoubtedly wear this if I went on an autistic rampage to keep people from restraining me, if you were to wear this while going up against an actual bear the spikes would most likely only piss it off making the ensuing mauling all the more violent.

It's pretty sad that someone went to all that effort to make something so completely useless and ugly.