Impractical weapons, armour, and equipment - Mike Sparks spinoff

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
They didn't, though. They were so short of transports for the planned invasion of Britain that they had to take barges from the Rhine, and they still didn't have enough. Germany's navy simply wasn't big enough to challenge the UK's, and they couldn't have built one big enough very easily given that they were starting with very little when Hitler took power in 1933.

I know all this. Your pedantry is really pointless indeed.

It's a wide series of scenarios which aren't within the scope of this thread. They could (potentially) have made us bow outwithout setting one Jackboot on UK soil.
Taking over Malta, bold invasions of the Middle East, Iran and Turkey, cutting off the Suez Canal and threatening the USSR's southern flanks were all possibilities.

Bottom line is this: Hitler succeed up to a point with the brilliant policy of attacking weaknesses, then at the critical moment, he threw it all away,
attacking Russia's might head on, leaving the UK unbeaten. This flew in the face of all logic and previous strategy. Then to compound madness he
also declared war on the USA...For that host of utter follies, he lost the war. But he could focused on Egypt which may have given him an easy win...

But that outline is for deep thoughts, not here.
 
I'm not sure how this thread has gone without mentioning the Gyrojet.
A classic case of an awesome idea executed terribly, the Gyrojet line was a series of firearms that fired not bullets, but tiny rockets.
The idea was that a self propelled round like that didn't require heavy barrels, thus reducing the weight.
Unfortunately, it was inaccurate, unreliable, prone to issues, and took forever to load.
It was not a success.
i own an MBA Model C, and the only thing it has going for it is the complete lack of recoil and the odd sound it makes when firing. it is otherwise completely worthless as a serious weapon because to equal a slightly warm .45 ACP, your target would need to be about 100 meters away... which makes the wildly inaccurate nature of the 12mm rockets a crap shoot. the 13mm rockets were actually decent accurate, but the adaptation of the tooling for the nozzles from 13mm to 12mm nabbed it the reputation for complete inaccuracy beyond a few meters.

As far as pointless weapons go, my vote would have to go to PDWs like the P90 and MP7 due to the poor terminal ballistics of their ammunition.
speaking professionally, the 4.6mm and 5.7mm were designed for rear echelon troops in place of a traditional carbine that still maintained armor penetration capabilities against NIJ IIIA body armor. carbines, especially in 5.56mm NATO have woeful penetration of this armor at most ranges due to a combination of lack of velocity and lack of mass. likewise M193 and M855 require about 2700 fps to reliably fragment in flesh, which is the cause of most lethality in the 5.56mm NATO round. both the 4.6mm and the 5.7mm work around this limitation by being optimized for very short barrels and high velocities to induce cavitation and very large temporary wound channels in soft tissues, often tearing them obscenely. combined with armor penetration and a high rate of fire with light weight ammunition and controllable recoil in the weapons it was designed for, and you have a very lethal combination. unfortunately the weapon is just too specialized and expensive (logistically) to endorse. the few buyers keep them as special purpose weapons where size and armor penetration is absolutely required as you will be very dead on the business end of a burst.

it's complete shit at dropping people in one hit though, often a body will need to be "sprinkled" with a burst or two prior to dropping (dead and still having enough brain activity to pull a trigger). this is first hand experience.

Fun Fact: Sunnyvale, CA motorcycle officers use H&K MP7A1's.

The AN-94 deserves a mention.
much like the AEK-971 and the A-545, it's a complicated rifle internally and rather delicate due to the use of a pulley and counter-weight system to balance the recoil and manually trip a second hammer to operate the burst mechanism. the canted magazine is required due to the positioning of components in the receiver. while it isn't exactly "fragile" it is prone to failure should the pulley be interfered with, and the open AK receiver can get all sorts of debris inside.

Doesn't it also have an insanely high fire rate for its 2 round burst fire that gives it a very tight grouping?
yes, 1800 rpm, which is two shots fired in less than one tenth of a second. the idea was that the second bullet would leave the barrel prior to any significant recoil forces dragging aim away from a target - increasing the likelihood of shots on target, and for enemies who are wearing armor, a higher chance of either penetrating/damaging that armor or knocking a target over from sheer energy delivery.

Fucking scythes. I hate 'em.
best weapon in Dark Souls 1 in all ways for most builds.
 
Bachem Ba 349
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349

Bachem-Ba349.jpg


was a World War II German point-defence rocket-powered interceptor, which was to be used in a very similar way to a manned surface-to-air missile. After a vertical take-off, which eliminated the need for airfields, most of the flight to the Allied bombers was to be controlled by an autopilot. The primary role of the relatively untrained pilot was to aim the aircraft at its target bomber and fire its armament of rockets. The pilot and the fuselage containing the rocket-motor would then land using separate parachutes, while the nose section was disposable. The only manned vertical take-off flight on 1 March 1945 ended in the death of the test pilot, Lothar Sieber.
 
best weapon in Dark Souls 1 in all ways for most builds.

Recovery time and speed of strike matters much less in a world where people heave weapons around in slow motion like they're made of solid lead. It might be a little different if the characters were as fast as real knights and could deliver a spear thrust in a fraction of a second.
 
It might be a little different if the characters were as fast as real knights and could deliver a spear thrust in a fraction of a second.
unfortunately that's never going to happen, games like For Honor would have the Japanese faction teleporting everywhere and cutting armored knights in two with a simple vertical slice.
 
unfortunately that's never going to happen, games like For Honor would have the Japanese faction teleporting everywhere and cutting armored knights in two with a simple vertical slice.

I don't know how the Vikings are supposed to compete in that game given their armour and weapons are from centuries earlier and much less powerful. Maille, a helmet, and a shield against full plate armour isn't fair.
 
Project Habakkuk or Habbakuk (spelling varies; see below) was a plan by the British during the Second World War to construct an aircraft carrier out of pykrete (a mixture of wood pulp and ice) for use against German U-boats in the mid-Atlantic, which were beyond the flight range of land-based planes at that time. The idea came from Geoffrey Pyke, who worked for Combined Operations Headquarters. After promising scale tests and the creation of a prototype on a lake in Alberta, Canada the project was shelved due to rising costs, added requirements, and the availability of longer-range aircraft and escort carriers which closed the Mid-Atlantic gap the project was intended to address.

hab4.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk
 
Project Habakkuk or Habbakuk (spelling varies; see below) was a plan by the British during the Second World War to construct an aircraft carrier out of pykrete (a mixture of wood pulp and ice) for use against German U-boats in the mid-Atlantic, which were beyond the flight range of land-based planes at that time. The idea came from Geoffrey Pyke, who worked for Combined Operations Headquarters. After promising scale tests and the creation of a prototype on a lake in Alberta, Canada the project was shelved due to rising costs, added requirements, and the availability of longer-range aircraft and escort carriers which closed the Mid-Atlantic gap the project was intended to address.

View attachment 217751

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

Mythbusters did a video where they built a pykrete boat. It worked, until it started to melt. The main problem was that building the refrigeration facilities to freeze the pykrete is harder than just building a steel ship.
 
I don't know how the Vikings are supposed to compete in that game given their armour and weapons are from centuries earlier and much less powerful. Maille, a helmet, and a shield against full plate armour isn't fair.

Higher mobility and better visibility and situational awareness, I suppose.

In a one-on-one fight I imagine a less-armored foe could be quite a nuisance for a fully-armored knight, particularly if he's in a full helm. Long as you took advantage of his limited vision and attacked him from the sides or below where he couldn't see your weapon coming as easily, tripped him up, etc.
 
Higher mobility and better visibility and situational awareness, I suppose.

In a one-on-one fight I imagine a less-armored foe could be quite a nuisance for a fully-armored knight, particularly if he's in a full helm. Long as you took advantage of his limited vision and attacked him from the sides or below where he couldn't see your weapon coming as easily, tripped him up, etc.
Weren't knights ridiculously susceptible heavier weapons that could knock them around though? I imagine a decently heavy sword would be pretty effective at taking down someone is heavy clunky armor if the guy using it was pretty nimble.

I remember reading a book years ago that pretty much said that after a while most militaries were able to craft weapons that were especially designed to take advantage of the flaws in a knights armor. Like the estoc which was a rapier designed for stabbing into the openings behind the joints in heavy armor to inflict damage that made it extremely difficult for the knight to be able to move around or attack due to the already solid weight of their plate armor. And the halberd was specifically designed with a hook on its back so that infantry men could grab knights riding by on horses and pull them to the ground. It's kinda neat reading about the ideas people came up with to take down one of the biggest nuisances of medieval warfare.
 
Weren't knights ridiculously susceptible heavier weapons that could knock them around though? I imagine a decently heavy sword would be pretty effective at taking down someone is heavy clunky armor if the guy using it was pretty nimble.

I remember reading a book years ago that pretty much said that after a while most militaries were able to craft weapons that were especially designed to take advantage of the flaws in a knights armor. Like the estoc which was a rapier designed for stabbing into the openings behind the joints in heavy armor to inflict damage that made it extremely difficult for the knight to be able to move around or attack due to the already solid weight of their plate armor. And the halberd was specifically designed with a hook on its back so that infantry men could grab knights riding by on horses and pull them to the ground. It's kinda neat reading about the ideas people came up with to take down one of the biggest nuisances of medieval warfare.

They were susceptible in the sense that getting smashed with a pollaxe would knock anyone over from the blunt impact, but the impact would be far more devastating to someone not wearing armour. A helmet would often make the difference between being knocked out and having your skull caved in.

The heaviest swords were the huge 2 hand swords, coming it at just over 3kg, but the mass of even those was concentrated more towards the hilt for balance reasons. The only way to deliver a massive blunt impact was to give a murder stroke with the hilt, holding the blade. Swords were more usually half-sworded and used for stabbing into gaps in armour. Maces, war hammers, and pollaxes concentrated mass more towards the striking end for a bigger blunt impact, but they were slower and more exhausting to strike with. You can't "nimbly" swing something heavy enough to knock somebody flat, so even these bludgeons tended not to be that heavy compared to, say, a sledgehammer. A modern ball-peen hammer is about the same weight as many historical war hammers.

A full plate harness weighed about 30kg, the same as a modern soldier's gear. Knights were slightly slower than unarmoured people, but they weren't sluggish.

Armour got more and more common for everyone to wear, including common soldiers, until muskets became common. 15th century English archers and spearmen wore helmets, maille shirts, brigandines, and sometimes arm and leg armour as well. Most militaries were able to craft weapons which could easily beat armour, and they were called guns. Armour protected against pre-gunpowder weapons very, very well. Marshal Boucicaut, commander of the defeated French at Agincourt, survived barrages of arrows and was taken prisoner. This would have been rather unlikely without armour.

It's important to move away from the fantasy image of knights in armour so heavy they could hardly move slowly heaving around gigantic, overweight weapons. Games like Dark Souls show movements far more sluggish and cumbersome than those in real combat. Keeping weight down was quite a high priority in history, and there was a practical cap on how heavy weapons and armour could be, which was about the same as a modern soldier's gear. This isn't a coincidence, it's the maximum weight a combat-effective soldier can carry.

Higher mobility and better visibility and situational awareness, I suppose.

In a one-on-one fight I imagine a less-armored foe could be quite a nuisance for a fully-armored knight, particularly if he's in a full helm. Long as you took advantage of his limited vision and attacked him from the sides or below where he couldn't see your weapon coming as easily, tripped him up, etc.

The problem is that you have to hit him in specific places, whereas he can hit you in most places. He can protect specific weaknesses a lot easier than you can protect most of your body. A Viking nobleman would have been reasonably protected with a helmet, shield, and maille shirt, but his lower legs would be open to cuts where a plate armoured knight's legs wouldn't. The Viking would have to worry about leg cuts, while the knight could get cut on the legs without being harmed at all. Common Vikings usually just had shields and spears.
 
Last edited:
The problem is that you have to hit him in specific places, whereas he can hit you in most places. He can protect specific weaknesses a lot easier than you can protect most of your body. A Viking nobleman would have been reasonably protected with a helmet, shield, and maille shirt, but his lower legs would be open to cuts where a plate armoured knight's legs wouldn't. The Viking would have to worry about leg cuts, while the knight could get cut on the legs without being harmed at all. Common Vikings usually just had shields and spears.

A Viking who is less encumbered and less protected would have to be stupid to play by the same rules as the knight in this situation. If it were me, I would maintain distance and poke at him with the spear. You only have to overbalance him, if you get him on the ground he's finished regardless of what he tries to do.

A full plate harness weighed about 30kg, the same as a modern soldier's gear. Knights were slightly slower than unarmoured people, but they weren't sluggish.

>30 kg in armor alone
>only slightly slower

I really urge you to try strapping some barbell plates onto your torso and various limbs, and put on a period-correct helmet and padded gambeson and helm padding, and see how nimble and quick you are.
 
A Viking who is less encumbered and less protected would have to be stupid to play by the same rules as the knight in this situation. If it were me, I would maintain distance and poke at him with the spear. You only have to overbalance him, if you get him on the ground he's finished regardless of what he tries to do.



>30 kg in armor alone
>only slightly slower

I really urge you to try strapping some barbell plates onto your torso and various limbs, and put on a period-correct helmet and padded gambeson and helm padding, and see how nimble and quick you are.

Armour's weight distribution was spread a lot more evenly over the body than strapped on barbell plates, and knights in full plate just wore arming doublets underneath, not thick padded gambesons. Thick gambesons were worn under maille in earlier periods.


These guys are a bit slower, especially since they're just demonstrating, but they're not hopelessly encumbered. Remember that a noble Viking will be wearing a maille shirt and helmet, so he has a certain amount of weight on him as well. While the spearman has to thrust into a gap in the armour, the fallen knight just needs to chop at the unarmoured legs of the guy standing over him. He doesn't even need to get up off the ground to do this. Also remember that stabbing someone in the nuts is not going to be instantly fatal, and he can still give a cut to the legs after taking that stab with enough adrenaline. Not getting killed is more important than killing the other guy as quickly as possible. Some duels ended up with both participants dead.

It would be possible for the Viking to win (as in kill the knight and not die or be maimed himself) if he had good footwork to avoid leg cuts, but it wouldn't be easy at all.
 
Last edited:
A full plate harness weighed about 30kg, the same as a modern soldier's gear. Knights were slightly slower than unarmoured people, but they weren't sluggish.
Armour's weight distribution was spread a lot more evenly over the body than strapped on barbell plates, and knights in full plate just wore arming doublets underneath, not thick padded gambesons. Thick gambesons were worn under maille in earlier periods.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q
These guys are a bit slower, especially since they're just demonstrating, but they're not hopelessly encumbered. Remember that a noble Viking will be wearing a maille shirt and helmet, so he has a certain amount of weight on him as well. While the spearman has to thrust into a gap in the armour, the fallen knight just needs to chop at the unarmoured legs of the guy standing over him. He doesn't even need to get up off the ground to do this. Also remember that stabbing someone in the nuts is not going to be instantly fatal, and he can still give a cut to the legs after taking that stab with enough adrenaline. Not getting killed is more important than killing the other guy as quickly as possible. Some duels ended up with both participants dead.

It would be possible for the Viking to win (as in kill the knight and not die or be maimed himself) if he had good footwork to avoid leg cuts, but it wouldn't be easy at all.

IMHO you have to be a poor fighter if you can't keep a guy with a sword away from you when you are armed with a spear AND are less encumbered.
 
IMHO you have to be a poor fighter if you can't keep a guy with a sword away from you when you are armed with a spear AND are less encumbered.

Yes, but the knight would probably have a polearm as well if you were going on as equal grounds as possible. 15th century knights fighting on foot usually had a poleaxe and sword, just as the Viking had a spear and sword. The exception would be if the knight had a huge great sword as a primary weapon, which has significant reach anyway.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition

Where would you go after you placed it.

The two-man team would place the weapon package in the target location, set the timer, and swim out into the ocean, where they would be retrieved by a submarine or a high-speed surface water craft.

Ya no, the full force of the Russian A and B units are rushing forward. Good luck getting away.

Talking of horrendous cold war plans, there was a US plan to dodge a nuclear strike by slowing the Earth's rotation with rockets.

Seriously.

 
Back
Top Bottom