Intimacy in Current Year

[Zero Day Defense]

Whenever someone here talks about relationship ideals that seem too highbrow for the society that exists in AD 2021, I enjoy ribbing them about it-- very much so. It's funny to express disbelief that you can conceivably find a woman that doesn't "work" as a camgirl on at least three different sites and has the body count of a decorated Vietnam vet with a thousand yard stare to match.

Now, that was a joke. What isn't a joke, though, is my recently discovered disconnect with the notion of intimacy with another.

I desire to marry and have children, but perhaps I've taken it as a given for so long that thinking about the prospect in a grounded way without thinking of a specific prospective wife has led me to question the prospect of committing to a person in that way in the first place. Perhaps I've been sheltering from diet SARS for too long. Perhaps my cynicism about the state of the dating market in AD 2021 has seeped further into my bones than I thought and my disconnect is me subconsciously believing that I can't find a suitable wife among the women around-- let alone one also on a compatible wavelength. Perhaps my standards have unknowingly evolved beyond "won't stab me in my entrails". Or maybe I'm still reeling from the dissolution of my last relationship (imagine someone telling you they love you and want to have your kids but then they break up with you a couple months later because they decided from the start to do so once they did a specific thing that would theoretically help them, and you were pushing them to not put that thing off without knowing this because you were concerned about them).

Regardless, I'm finding the idea of marriage more foreign to me even though I intend on it without any particular external pressure. Does anyone else in a similar situation perhaps have more insight, either in general or specifically regarding their own idiosyncrasy?

 

[Blasterisk]

Don't worry, I'm sure you can find somebody to marry! Them leaving in 10 years and taking your kids and money is besides the point.

 

[Monolith]

Whenever someone here talks about relationship ideals that seem too highbrow for the society that exists in AD 2021, I enjoy ribbing them about it-- very much so. It's funny to express disbelief that you can conceivably find a woman that doesn't "work" as a camgirl on at least three different sites and has the body count of a decorated Vietnam vet with a thousand yard stare to match.

Now, that was a joke. What isn't a joke, though, is my recently discovered disconnect with the notion of intimacy with another.

I desire to marry and have children, but perhaps I've taken it as a given for so long that thinking about the prospect in a grounded way without thinking of a specific prospective wife has led me to question the prospect of committing to a person in that way in the first place. Perhaps I've been sheltering from diet SARS for too long. Perhaps my cynicism about the state of the dating market in AD 2021 has seeped further into my bones than I thought and my disconnect is me subconsciously believing that I can't find a suitable wife among the women around-- let alone one also on a compatible wavelength. Perhaps my standards have unknowingly evolved beyond "won't stab me in my entrails". Or maybe I'm still reeling from the dissolution of my last relationship (imagine someone telling you they love you and want to have your kids but then they break up with you a couple months later because they decided from the start to do so once they did a specific thing that would theoretically help them, and you were pushing them to not put that thing off without knowing this because you were concerned about them).

Regardless, I'm finding the idea of marriage more foreign to me even though I intend on it without any particular external pressure. Does anyone else in a similar situation perhaps have more insight, either in general or specifically regarding their own idiosyncrasy?

buy a sexbot faggot

 

[shameful existence]

Too much self-awareness and over-analyzing. You sound like you've turned off your autopilot completely.
The idea of wanting something without associating it with a specific person just yet is fine, oldfashioned in a good way. Should partially shield you from worshipping a woman and wrapping your life around her (which I guess was your mistake in that previous relationship). Maybe pay less attention to "the state of dating" - that has little to do with the vision you have for your life anyway.

 

[Golly]

I'm just posting to reaffirm a couple of your points. Statistics aren't people, fortunately. For every onlyfans vendor, there are dozens of women who want something more traditional in their sexual and romantic life, and those are the ones you're more likely to meet out in the world anyway.

It's probably mainly the isolation that's getting you to overthink. Once normal socializing is less taboo, you'll meet people on your wavelength much more easily.

Intimacy is still possible, it's just somewhat rare, like it always has been.

 

[Lone MacReady]

There is one thing that is certain about le current western world. Despite degeneracy on TV, in movies or sung in music, videogames with TnA, next-day delivery sex toys, internet porn and a thirstier populace than ever - despite the nation being obsessed with sex, no one is having it and actually breeding.

 

[SauceRyuKen]

I feel like a lot of modern relationships reduces us to shallow caricatures of human beings. When we were kids we were always told the usual stuff, right? "Looks don't matter, get to really know a person, spend time with them, money doesn't buy happiness."

Enter woke culture where talking to a woman is akin to harassment and the Tinder grindhouse. You better look your best, dress in expensive clothes, have a fancy car and project a completely bullshit version of yourself onto Tinder to meet copy-pasted women. They're all cute, they love filters, a lot of them are into polygamy, healthy lifestyles and travelling <3<3<3. These are the two modern pillars of why it's fucking impossible for males to even consider starting a family.

How are you gonna meet someone you can fall in love with if all you meet is literally the same woman in mildly different flavors over the internet, and trying to meet someone off the internet is considered improper? You'll get slammed if you're caught flirting at work, so unprofessional. The street and bars are less risky but not riskless. We're just funneling men into the online grinders. Get a cute little sex worker to send you nudes, or go through Tinder to get ocasionally laid. Spend money. Consooming is good. Love is bad. You don't want love. You don't want a family, we don't pay you enough to raise one and we can't afford more population. Failing all else, just fuck a hooker; Most of them do all the degenerate shit you see in porn for an extra.

Our parents met at work, work related scenarios or gathering spots. We don't have the luxury. We've killed most notions of romance, mystery and intimacy. We don't get to meet people outside of the designated areas. There's just no meeting someone outside of the very basic shit: Do they look good, do they earn good money, do they have hobbies, normally based on consumerism, that allign with mine.

The idea of getting married by itself is obviously not what 99% of people who want to get married are after. What we want is to meet someone we could start a family with, right? Yeah, I don't think that happens quite as much nowadays. For my part, I'm just gonna remain open to it and if it happens it happens, but I'm not gonna look for wife material on Tinder. And if it doesn't happen, oh well. It seems like relationships are more work than I bargained for anyway.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Enter woke culture where talking to a woman is akin to harassment and the Tinder grindhouse. You better look your best, dress in expensive clothes, have a fancy car and project a completely bullshit version of yourself onto Tinder to meet copy-pasted women. They're all cute, they love filters, a lot of them are into polygamy, healthy lifestyles and travelling <3<3<3. These are the two modern pillars of why it's fucking impossible for males to even consider starting a family.

Come to think of it, the relative copy/pasted nature of men/women in modern dating is the best argument for getting married early in life I've heard.

Why try for something better when you'll just meet the same again?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

buy a sexbot faggot

is this the evolved form of "have sex"?

The idea of wanting something without associating it with a specific person just yet is fine, oldfashioned in a good way.

I don't want to turn this into a many-to-one counseling session if I can help it, but I will say that I have like, 2-3 concrete expectations that I know of, and anything else is hidden under dark matter-- alternatively, it's captured within the "compatible wavelength" descriptor I mentioned in the OP.

Come to think of it, the relative copy/pasted nature of men/women in modern dating is the best argument for getting married early in life I've heard.

Why try for something better when you'll just meet the same again?

Part of the issue, indeed, is about trying to find something better (as opposed to having specific desires that you can either have satisfied by a given person or worked around), but the other issue is maturity. Me, I wouldn't figure myself mature compared to my peers-- or perhaps I'm asymmetrically so on account of my upbringing-- but being someone that learned the hard way about what interpersonal "love" is in practicality, what you notice with people around my age is that very few people have a concept of "love" that isn't synonymous with "heavy infatuation" (as a matter of fact, I've met nobody yet that explicitly manifests the proper definition).

Many women, regardless of personality type, are fully willing to abide those who throw resources at them with or without the expectation of a deepening relationship not because they're manipulative but because they're cowardly and passive, and have difficulty asserting boundaries and their own desires until things get out of hand altogether. And many young men are either totally disinterested, capable of being blinded by infatuation to the point that they're doing the aforementioned, or they're sexually successful without a desire to at least orient themselves towards shouldering more lives than themselves and perhaps their current family.

Yeah, it makes sense to marry young... if the only issue is that you're keeping yourself in a stall by not reigning in your hypergamy and accepting that you don't get to have it all especially when you don't know what "all" is for you. But people who marry young in the modern dating scheme presumably have to learn right away interpersonal skills and personal qualities that keep such a relationship as marriage alive that they possibly would have developed naturally at a later age, or else it can easily end in disaster once the infatuation driving such an early marriage cools down.

 

[Null]

It's funny to express disbelief that you can conceivably find a woman that doesn't "work" as a camgirl on at least three different sites and has the body count of a decorated Vietnam vet with a thousand yard stare to match.

When your only contact with women is via paypal on onlyfans this is probably the impression that you get, yeah. Most women walking down the street don't have onlyfans accounts.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I feel like a lot of modern relationships reduces us to shallow caricatures of human beings. When we were kids we were always told the usual stuff, right? "Looks don't matter, get to really know a person, spend time with them, money doesn't buy happiness."

Part of the problem is that most of that is Disney bullshit.

• Looks do matter, you'll have to look at this person's mug most days you wake up and they'll be giving that mug to your kids. At the very least, find peace with how they look.
• You really should get to know a person, but that advice in some of its typical iterations also suggests that you start off as friends with them, which is a strategy that largely wastes your time or creates a relationship limbo even if they do reciprocate-- in addition to it amounting to a suggestion to base a friendship on pretense and ulterior motives.
• Money is important because you can do things with money like not starve or die of exposure.

When we were kids, we were largely given fairytales that amounted to the idea that you don't need anything except "true love" to sustain you, while "true love" was being defined as no different than "massive infatuation" with more highbrow language.

When your only contact with women is via paypal on onlyfans this is probably the impression that you get, yeah. Most women walking down the street don't have onlyfans accounts.

Yeah, but that was a joke. I said as much.

 

[Lemmingwise]

When your only contact with women is via paypal on onlyfans this is probably the impression that you get, yeah. Most women walking down the street don't have onlyfans accounts.

Have you done this social experiment?

 

[A Pox]

Your shit is way too wordy and you sound like a homosexual.

Next time don't be a chump that ignores red flags. She told you what you wanted to hear during the beginning stages. You went along with what she was saying so she would be happy. You placed her individual happiness over your shared happiness. She left you because she got what she wanted and didn't want to be stuck with a doormat.

It was never a real relationship with any intimacy. You got played.

Try to realize that the key to a good relationship isn't fulfilling every stupid whim in her head. If you want the tradwife you have to be prepared to be a leader.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Your shit is way too wordy and you sound like a homosexual.

Next time don't be a chump that ignores red flags. She told you what you wanted to hear during the beginning stages. You went along with what she was saying so she would be happy. You placed her individual happiness over your shared happiness. She left you because she got what she wanted and didn't want to be stuck with a doormat.

It was never a real relationship with any intimacy. You got played.

Try to realize that the key to a good relationship isn't fulfilling every stupid whim in her head. If you want the tradwife you have to be prepared to be a leader.

Actually, she told me that she liked me at a point in time where she had no way of knowing whether I reciprocated those feelings, and an expectation that I wouldn't... well, according to her, at least. I also was the one that wanted her to slow down on the "love" and "marriage/babies" talk, because we weren't even properly going out and I viewed going out as the appropriate venue to explore whether I wanted to do those things with her.

Otherwise... you're partly right. When I think about it, I come to the conclusion that the relationship would have lasted longer if I effectively ignored her attempting to exercise her conscience and gave her what she was indirectly signaling she wanted (sex without the burden of making the active decision and going against her conscience-- and more broadly, receiving her willingly relinquished agency). I was half-assed in that I could get swept into her tempo (or even my tempo) but I always had a line to draw because I was concerned with her overfixating on the fact that she did a no-no/her compulsively (or with little prodding) telling her mother-- who would have been okay with the act itself but not the fact that it was happening in any of the venues where she actually got rowdy.

If it wasn't bad enough that I was refusing her advances for practical concerns, my lines weren't strong enough, so it may have come off as reluctance rather than the conviction of a leading party (you know, because it was).

All that to say, I reckon that she actually didn't get what she wanted, partly because she was at odds with herself and couldn't goad me into effectively risking giving her regrets, and partly because I didn't assert my lines in the sand strongly enough. She seemed to be most attracted to me when I was willing to scold her, in hindsight (or, she wanted that I rein her in more) but... it's really tiresome to have to do that with an adult who's only a couple years younger than you.

Anyways,

you sound like a homosexual.

it takes one to know one

 

[SauceRyuKen]

Part of the problem is that most of that is Disney bullshit.

Mean and it hurts my feefees. Yeah, I don't mean that you should be entirely open to date a toothless 59 year old crack whore on account of her beautiful personality. I don't know if that came across, heh.

• Looks do matter, you'll have to look at this person's mug most days you wake up and they'll be giving that mug to your kids. At the very least, find peace with how they look.

They do matter, but a 7 and a half refusing to give the time of day to a very nice 6, which does happen, is kinda silly. I'm not saying fat slobs should be able to bang Scarlett Johanson, or ugly legbeards Hugh Jackman, but there's gotta be some leeway in this stuff. Good looking people in particular sometimes are ridiculously picky in what they would and wouldn't date, and they're so outspoken about it in a way that comes across more shallow than a frog pond.

• You really should get to know a person, but that advice in some of its typical iterations also suggests that you start off as friends with them, which is a strategy that largely wastes your time or creates a relationship limbo even if they do reciprocate-- in addition to it amounting to a suggestion to base a friendship on pretense and ulterior motives.

I think the whole "wasting time" is a young man's outlook on relationships. Just spending time with people is nice pretty often. You can have a romantic interest in the other party from the start. You don't have to start as friends, but you can just stick around and see where things lead without the pressure of having to get in there. Real friendship between men and women is hard and rare. Normally it just happens because one or both parties are taken. Even then there might be some longing looks. I know it sounds like bullshit, but it's the only way to get a real connection and intimacy. Real chemistry just happens. You can't force it. You can flash cash and fuck bimbos, but you can't find love like that.

• Money is important because you can do things with money like not starve or die of exposure.
• When we were kids, we were largely given fairytales that amounted to the idea that you don't need anything except "true love" to sustain you, while "true love" was being defined as no different than "massive infatuation" with more highbrow language.

Hehe, not die of exposure got a chuckle. Well, money is very important, but when there's an income difference, and things are done split, normally, things can quickly get VERY fucky, particularly on the side of women. If a man earns more than a woman and fancies a trip with said woman to Cancún, he's likely to pay for the whole thing and just enjoy it. If the woman earns more than the man in that relationship, although the man still makes half the rent and food payments, for example, she's likely to whine endlessly about how she would have to pay for it and that's not a good life and yadda yadda.

I honestly think the fairytail is legitimately important and honestly good guidelines for a relationship with actual love in it. Of course, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Again, don't date a toothless crackwhore because she's super funny. If someone can't find even a hint of the fairytail in their romantic relationship, it's all completely modern, transactional, consumerist dating bullshit. You're pretty, rich and polite enough to ride the bangtrain. If you were x amount of prettier and richer, you'd even get the backdoor!

Have shallow standards, get shallow partners. Love and romance are purely foolish, senseless things that you just gotta believe in. Pragmatism is your worst enemy in this. You might vet out the type of romantic partner that would be happy to just watch tv and cuddle with you, because she's doing it with you, because she was a little too heavy, or a little too poor, or because she didn't seem interested.

Then again, most people probably aren't into relationships just to love and be loved and want to get into one purely to have someone to practice hobbies with, fuck a lot and eventually plop out the best possible babies they can with their genetics, so I'll go be a mushy faggot elsewhere

 

[Kari Kamiya]

But people who marry young in the modern dating scheme presumably have to learn right away interpersonal skills and personal qualities that keep such a relationship as marriage alive that they possibly would have developed naturally at a later age, or else it can easily end in disaster once the infatuation driving such an early marriage cools down.

This isn't a modern era problem, this has happened throughout human history and even in places where they still practice arranged marriages. Dating is meant to help you gain experience in social skills and interpersonal relationships, yes, but so's also socializing with friend groups and your coworkers around the water cooler, and even when your boss is chewing you out. When you get married, you are committed to that other person for life and that means you're constantly learning something new about each other that was "hidden" from you in the dating scene, and you have to learn to adapt/accommodate to each other. And that may mean you'll have to literally change as a person and discover something new about yourself. This includes learning new life skills on the fly because you're suddenly thrust into a sink-or-swim situation (such as having to learn to sew because you don't have the financial means to buy new clothes on the regular).

And when you're in a committed relationship, you just learn to stop thinking for yourself and think for the family you want to build. "Do it for her." Hopefully she'll "do it for him" back, otherwise the relationship is going to be rocky and can lead to contention that'll end up in divorce or worse. But that's why communication is extremely important. Even though you shouldn't focus on the negatives, you'll still have to confront the negatives before they hit critical to problem-solve how to get over those obstacles. And more often than not, it means making difficult decisions, which is something a lot of people these days don't want to do. They want someone else to make that decision for them, or they don't want to take responsibility for it. If there's anything you should look for in a woman, make sure it's a sense of responsibility, that she owns up to her mistakes and works to not repeat it. If she slips up, try to see if holding her up will help her better, because sometimes mistakes are made because people don't like asking for help.

If you can't find someone over the Internet, suck it up and trust your gut, or just go find social gatherings to attend in your local community. Maybe go to a church full of singles, especially since you do desire marriage and church-goers deep down at least want to uphold that. If that church doesn't work, then go find another church. Sink in your personal swamp, or swim out into the sea to find her. The "perfect girl" doesn't exist, but there's plenty of "good enough" women out there if you just talk to them, and who knows, they may perfect themselves later if they put in their share of the work.

 

[big ups liquid richard]

Do you actually have anything meaningful to offer other women or are you just expecting to show up and that be good enough?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Do you actually have anything meaningful to offer other women or are you just expecting to show up and that be good enough?

I just typed up a comment where I explained that having resources, looks, and compatibility is important.

I'm a guy. Ain't nobody gonna white knight me if I spout some nonsense about "being the table". And I don't really have much-- if anything-- in Chad qualities, so I definitely have to put in the effort.

 

[Kermit Jizz]

I'm kind of having a hard time following what your issue is other than "dating sucks today and I don't know if it's worth the effort". That's the gist of what I'm seeing here.

I will admit I share that general sentiment, although I'll say I don't think things are as dire as some make it out to be, kind of like what Null alluded too. However I'll come back to a point I always bring up in these discussions. You only have to marry one girl, none of the others matter. Even if 99.999999% of people are shit, you're just trying to carve out a small slice of humanity for yourself. Don't worry about the dating scene beyond that and quadruple checking your self before actually committing.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I'm kind of having a hard time following what your issue is other than "dating sucks today and I don't know if it's worth the effort". That's the gist of what I'm seeing here.

Eh... if I wanted to talk about how I felt that dating sucked, I'd have at least put my cited dating experience or my cynicism at the top of my list of possible reasons for feeling a disconnect with the concept of marriage.

No, I was more concerned with seeing if anybody else who also planned to get married at some point was having the kind of disconnect that I have and if they understood why, but it seems as if a couple of the commenters so far are under the impression that I primarily wanted to talk about sore spots left by relationships I've had in the past.

Don't get me wrong, that can be a helpful tangent regarding what I'm inquiring about, but it's not what prompted this thread.