Is a status-less society possible? - If so, what would it look like?

[Mysterious Capitalist]

While I was reading the Communism thread that's featured right now, I briefly entertained the idea of a society where automation has reached a point where it can basically do anything a human worker can, leaving "the 99%" unemployed throughout the Country.

Let's assume that we skipped the part where this technology is not fully widespread and there's still working people and let's go directly after that, where the only choices left are giving people a basic income to survive or let the economy collapse completely because nobody has money to consume stuff anymore. For the sake of the argument, let's say that basic income is implemented successfully, somehow. Then let's skip that part too and go to the distant future, where everything is so efficient, automated and cheap that there's no need for money anymore, because you can just conjure up whatever you want (that'd be possible with a normal and regulated industry; no magic or entropy defying stuff) from your iPhone XX or whatever.

Even if you think this is not plausible with this specific argument/timeline because of terrorism/country inequality/whatever (which are real possibilities and obstacles to this kind of society, but are beyond the scope of the thread), the point of this introduction is to make you think of a possible society in the future where work and money don't exist anymore and if you want anything, from an apple to a Yacht near an island of the Pacific, you just need to push a button and it is teleported/created by nanomachines/whatever in front of your eyes.

It sure is a cool fantasy, but that's just the backdrop of my question, which is: if everyone can have what we consider "wealth", what will "status-seeking" people do? Yacht, Ferrari, Armani, Rolex, etc... all exist so that wealthy people can show to everyone else that they are, indeed, better than them (or so they believe, anyway). When it will be no longer possible to have more stuff based on merit, how will people that naturally seek wealth and status live/react? Since they also tend to be the kind of people that make the world go round, how would it affect society?

I've specifically avoided the word "class" and used "status" instead because it's not about the difference between rich and poor, but between ambitious people and everyone else. If there's no more social "push" to exceed and excel, what will happen? Also, what could these people do or have to maintain their sense of "superiority" if everyone else has their same privileges? Would they still have this impulse or would they grow complacent like everyone else? Would greedy people still long for more stuff, somehow? Would human society/culture stagnate or would it thrive now that's unshackled by money and means?

EDIT: Maybe I've emphasized the scenario too much. I know that that's a post-scarcity society, but that's not what I care for. The point I was trying to make is: given that everything else is utopically perfect, how would the most gifted, driven member of society react when their genius is no longer needed for the advancement and survival of the species? Would culture stop with them or would the condition of having no limit dictated by scarcity actually make *more* people thrive and pursue cultural, or any kind, really, goals?

 

[Diesel Boogaloo]

a Yacht near an island of the Pacific

You want a yacht. I want a yacht. 29998 other people want a yacht. Suddenly, the 30001st person cannot get a yacht near that island because its shore is full of other yachts. And some random island's shoreline is just a silly example, there are many much more important resources that are limited and people will always want to control them.

So to answer your question: no, it's not possible.

 

[Mysterious Capitalist]

You want a yacht. I want a yacht. 29998 other people want a yacht. Suddenly, the 30001st person cannot get a yacht near that island because its shore is full of other yachts. And some random island's shoreline is just a silly example, there are many much more important resources that are limited and people will always want to control them.

So to answer your question: no, it's not possible.

What if this technology allowed for travel across worlds and basically infinite resources, including shores in distant planets that are just like ours, both natural or terraformed?

EDIT: The question is not so much about the means of infinite wealth, but more about a psychological/sociological point of view of how it would affect society

 

[Zarkov]

It would be lame. 10 billions of people would lurk on the farms all day, calling each other faggots. I don't want us to go mainstream.

 

[DangerousGas]

What if this technology allowed for travel across worlds and basically infinite resources, including shores in distant planets that are just like ours, both natural or terraformed?

EDIT: The question is not so much about the means of infinite wealth, but more about a psychological/social point of view of how it would affect society

You're a talking about the possibility of a totally post-scarcity society. Provided the means of production remains non-sentient, or at least is OK with being exploited by a feckless 'superior' culture, it could be the idyllic utopia you are hoping for, but it most likely won't be. People are arseholes, and no amount of free shit will ever change that. As a species, we're bald chimps with a God complex - we're not likely to ever get past that limitation without some serious neural re-wiring first.

 

[Clownfish]

Well look at American society. Pretty much a proto all needs taken care of society. People get bored when most needs can be taken care of and thus invent non existent problems. On left everything is problematic and sexist. On the right tinfoil hattery of chemtrails.

The insanity and anxiety seen in American politics is non existent in a place like say Mexico where real problems are everywhere. Cartels. Corruption. Shitty working conditions. Run down infrastructure. These folks are in survival mode and it shows. They are not living great but they lack the angst and neuroticism seen in more developed nations


The only way a society can truly be stateless would be a post human or transhuman society. Think the Borg from Star trek or ghost in a shell type stuff.

 

[Mysterious Capitalist]

You're a talking about the possibility of a totally post-scarcity society. Provided the means of production remains non-sentient, or at least is OK with being exploited by a feckless 'superior' culture, it could be the idyllic utopia you are hoping for, but it most likely won't be. People are arseholes, and no amount of free shit will ever change that. As a species, we're bald chimps with a God complex - we're not likely to ever get past that limitation without some serious neural re-wiring first.

Maybe I've emphasized the scenario too much. I know that that's a post-scarcity society, but that's not what I care for. The point I was trying to make is: given that everything else is utopically perfect, how would the most gifted, driven member of society react when their genius is no longer needed for the advancement and survival of the species? Would culture stop with them or would the condition of having no limit dictated by scarcity actually make *more* people thrive and pursue cultural, or any kind, really, goals?

 

[Positron]

There isn't much good things to be said about postmodernism, but one of its valuable insight is that the economy and social relationship is moving away from commodity, and into the production of images and ideas. Still, the capitalist obsession with commodity fetishism will not die, but will be channeled from tangible goods to virtual "goods". In a society where every material desire, no matter how extravagant, can be easily satisfied by anyone, people will instead pitch themselves in the arena of virtuality: the one who can build the most intricate, mind-bending virtual reality (or can somehow coax someone else to do it for him) will be the envy of others.

What does that entail? Hard to say. Some hecklers (like Jean Baudrillard) have suggested that people will eventually be aware that they are so out of touch with reality that a generalized panic will ensue; people will search frentically for something "real", something man-made, something non-synthetic, to own and to hold. But because what is "real" will then be machine-mediated (you won't be able to find a pair of "authentic" cowboy boots when the art of cobbling, not to mention the skill of rearing cattle for the leather, has been long lost), the desire for "the real" can never been satisfied. "Culture" will still advance, driven by this desire of "the real", but what form it will take is beyond my imagination. Perhaps people will turn to their own body, believing that bodily sensations, inflicted by knife on skin or blood on tongue, are the only things that can be counted as "real", so perhaps we'll see the rise of recreational, non-sexual sadomasochists?

 

[Mysterious Capitalist]

What does that entail? Hard to say. Some hecklers (like Jean Baudrillard) have suggested that people will eventually be aware that they are so out of touch with reality that a generalized panic will ensue; people will search frentically for something "real", something man-made, something non-synthetic, to own and to hold. But because what is "real" will then be machine-mediated (you won't be able to find a pair of "authentic" cowboy boots when the art of cobbling, not to mention the skill of rearing cattle for the leather, has been long lost), the desire for "the real" can never been satisfied. "Culture" will still advance, driven by this desire of "the real", but what form it will take is beyond my imagination. Perhaps people will turn to their own body, believing that the bodily sensation is the only thing that can be count as "real", so perhaps we'll see the rise of recreational, non-sexual sadomasochists?

That's actually a pretty interesting thought. Do you know if there's any literature about this kind of "post-post-scarcity society"? Fictional or otherwise, but I'd prefer the latter.

 

[Positron]

That's actually a pretty interesting thought. Do you know if there's any literature about this kind of "post-post-scarcity society"? Fictional or otherwise, but I'd prefer the latter.

It is mostly my speculation so I can't cite any sources. For a little taste of Jean Baudrillard go for the relevant chapter on Modern French Philosophy by Robert Wicks

 

[AnOminous]

Maybe I've emphasized the scenario too much. I know that that's a post-scarcity society, but that's not what I care for. The point I was trying to make is: given that everything else is utopically perfect, how would the most gifted, driven member of society react when their genius is no longer needed for the advancement and survival of the species?

Become insane evil geniuses and fuck it up for the sheer hell of it.

 

[Mysterious Capitalist]

Become insane evil geniuses and fuck it up for the sheer hell of it.

Would they, like, create a league of supervillains or everyone would try to end the world in their own way, creating a neo-medieval times where there are geniuses instead of kings fighting each other? Because they're both good incipit for an indie movie, I feel.

 

[Joan Nyan]

At a certain point everyone would become Luddites, all the technology will be destroyed, and we'll all go back to living off the land again.

 

[ICametoLurk]

At a certain point everyone would become Luddites, all the technology will be destroyed, and we'll all go back to living off the land again.

And then some dipshit is gonna invent agriculture and everything starts all over again.

 

[Tennis Monkey]

If there was no material scarcity, people could still compete over their relationships with other people, whether in terms of "I get more sex than you do" or "I'm more famous/popular" or even "I have power over people and you don't." I don't think that the drive for status is necessarily driven by the desire for money or material things as such.

A lot of people who end up fantastically rich are more driven by the power it gives them, or the wish to be admired, or to prove that they were right about something (for that one, just look at basically anyone who made a fortune in tech. That's all about being seen as the smartest guy in the room).

There's actually an example in my own life. Where I work, our managers (for fairly stupid historical reasons) aren't actually paid that much more than we are. However, I still know people who schemed and sweated for years to get promotion, because they wanted to be a boss. Some people just want (or need) to be superior to others, and that wouldn't change in a society without scarcity.

 

[AnOminous]

At a certain point everyone would become Luddites, all the technology will be destroyed, and we'll all go back to living off the land again.

At least the .1% of people who actually survive the mass starvation.

 

[Clownfish]

There isn't much good things to be said about postmodernism, but one of its valuable insight is that the economy and social relationship is moving away from commodity, and into the production of images and ideas. Still, the capitalist obsession with commodity fetishism will not die, but will be channeled from tangible goods to virtual "goods". In a society where every material desire, no matter how extravagant, can be easily satisfied by anyone, people will instead pitch themselves in the arena of virtuality: the one who can build the most intricate, mind-bending virtual reality (or can somehow coax someone else to do it for him) will be the envy of others.
?

Wouldn't that lead to a society riddled with delusions? With the left they are seeing threats that are not there and making others miserable.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

Society would become increasingly fractured as the shared purpose of survival would no longer bind us, and I think we'd see a lot of little cults pop up, each with their own ideas about how life is to be lived. Kind of like how NEETs on the internet are these days. Lots of little tribes, each with radically different ideas about how the world is, and should be. People would become increasingly disconnected, and subcultures would overtake society. I think we'd see a resurgence of religiousness, albeit with strange little pseudo-religious cults based around subcultures.
I don't know how long we could possibly survive after such a shift. Some people would probably still try to keep the world turning, but I think a lot would just descend into self involved madness.

 

[Positron]

Wouldn't that lead to a society riddled with delusions? With the left they are seeing threats that are not there and making others miserable.

Society is riddled with delusions as we speak. Fake news pass as real, unchecked, because they feel "more real" to a large number of people. In an image-based society people will be valued for their ability to conjure images and make up stories. That lead to another thing...

Society would become increasingly fractured as the shared purpose of survival would no longer bind us, and I think we'd see a lot of little cults pop up, each with their own ideas about how life is to be lived... I think we'd see a resurgence of religiousness, albeit with strange little pseudo-religious cults based around subcultures.

Religion and "spirituality" will bloom because they promise what is real, and allow us to see through the suffocating mist of virtuality and floating images. To answer the question whether culture as we know it will survive, Existentialist Philosophy will rise to become a hot topic again: when material needs are perfectly satisfied, people will no longer feel bidden to the "social game" that had allowed them to function as productive, money-making members of society. We may say we hate having to rise up and dress up and go to work, but that is part of what give our life a sense of purpose. When we are free to do whatever we want, what follows is a sense of emptiness and lack of meaning.

 

[Clownfish]

Society is riddled with delusions as we speak. Fake news pass as real, unchecked, because they feel "more real" to a large number of people. In an image-based society people will be valued for their ability to conjure images and make up stories. That lead to another thing...



Religion and "spirituality" will bloom because they promise what is real, and allow us to see through the suffocating mist of virtuality and floating images. To answer the question whether culture as we know it will survive, Existentialist Philosophy will rise to become a hot topic again: when material needs are perfectly satisfied, people will no longer feel bidden to the "social game" that had allowed them to function as productive, money-making members of society. We may say we hate having to rise up and dress up and go to work, but that is part of what give our life a sense of purpose. When we are free to do whatever we want, what follows is a sense of emptiness and lack of meaning.

Speaking of religion and post class society.....


I mentioned one way for society to become classless is via transhuman or post human means. Via borg or ghost in shell type thing.

Concepts such as a matrix or lawnmower man style internet would give rise to new interpretations of spiritual concepts. Ghost in shell one talks about people minds getting hacked. That a form of possession.
Machines which can produce objects via 3d printing upon verbal command.
That would conjuration.

It's a wild guess