Is being religious better than being non-religious? - Mormons or atheist wet Dreams?

Hellbound Hellhound said:
Using words such as "equally" and "matched" implies that you think there is some equivalence between religion and the various secular ideologies which have increasingly replaced it. While I would agree with you that the void left by religion's decline has partly been filled by such ideologies, I don't think you can convincingly make the case that they have an equal influence to religion in most people's lives. Some people, certainly, but in general, they're much more peripheral.

Of course, it is part of man's nature to want to be a part of something bigger, but this goes beyond religion. What about community, family, work, etc? Many people who are irreligious in the West are perfectly content with those things, and don't seem to need religion (just look at the figures on church attendance in most European countries).



I think that you are incredibly naive if you think that hardship in the developed world has become negligible. It is true that we are living in a time of incredible wealth by historical standards, and compared to many parts of the world, we live very well, but at the end of the day, we still have to work to put food on the table, we still get sick, we still grow old and die, and we still have to endure the distress of watching our loved ones do the same.

If you think that what we have now is about as good as things are likely to get, then I think you are extraordinarily short-sighted, especially if you are familiar with the latest developments in computer science, robotics, and medicine, which look set to completely revolutionize our quality of life in the coming decades.



You don't even have a point here. About the firmest thing that you are trying to say is that change and reform are incremental, which I have never denied, nor would deny. Still, that doesn't mean that educational reform can't happen, does it? Unless you're going to suggest that our approach to education was better 100 years ago.
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I didn't think this thread would honeypot anyone, guess I was wrong. Religious belief figures are rising because science can only do so much.

Next time you reply pls post a selfie with your fedora.
 
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Vocaloid Ruby said:
I didn't think this thread would honeypot anyone, guess I was wrong. Religious belief figures are rising because science can only do so much.

Next time you reply pls post a selfie with your fedora.
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Religious belief figures are rising in some parts of Europe due to immigration and disparate fertility rates, not conversion. I also think it's funny that you peg me as a fedora-tier atheist when my posts on this topic have been completely measured, and your reply reeks of the same kind of snooty derision that the fedora crowd famously has an affinity for.
 
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Hellbound Hellhound said:
Religious belief figures are rising in some parts of Europe due to immigration and disparate fertility rates, not conversion. I also think it's funny that you peg me as a fedora-tier atheist when my posts on this topic have been completely measured, and your reply reeks of the same kind of snooty derision that the fedora crowd famously has an affinity for.
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No. A religious asshole is still an asshole, and an asshole athiest is just an asshole who happens to be an athiest. Religion has nothing to do with how good of a person someone is.

People aren't better than other people because they believe in some "sacred" texts from a few thousand years ago. Especially if you're one of the religious crazies trying to push your beliefs on other people.
 
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Dr W said:
Nah. But either way people will be smug pricks about their faith or lack thereof.

I just wanna lock a fundie and a fedora tipper in a room together and observe.
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The fedora tipper tips his fedora and reveals that he has a tanto (Japanese katana like dagger) under there. The fundie pulls out their sharpened metal rosary and a fight to the death ensues.
 
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I value the truth. So in my view, as there no evidence of any of the fantastic magical religious stuff, I don't see a lot of value to it. If you base any of your actions on things that aren't true, I don't think you're going to get the result you want. I see so many people who get all worked up about how god is testing them, punishing them, wants them to save other people, etc. I see no good there, that's just giving up your own agency and making yourself feel helpless. It also allows you to deny your own responsibility, and lets you justify bad things happening to people "because they must have deserved it".

On the other hand, as philosophies I think they can have value. I am not at all religious, but the philosophy I live my life by shares a good amount with what the Christian bible says about Jesus. Like... be good to people, don't be an asshole, don't judge people for who they are, things like that. I am certainly not an ascetic like he was, but it's not like Christians care about that part either.

So... define religious I guess... If you mean believing in the supernatural stuff I'd say you're better off without. If you mean having a guiding philosophy based in some sort of benevolence, then I suppose you're better with it.
 
There's something to say about having the support structure that a religious community can provide.

I've always thought that if I could be religious, it would help me. It'd be great to think that I could live forever and everything is happening for a reason. The whole mortality and chaos gets to me a lot.

Religion's given us some dope art and architecture.

Like any fandom, the hardcore nerds ruin it for everybody
 
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Dr W said:
You remind me of me during my fedora tipping days.

Although I never owned a fedora.
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Well, if you want to go around being told that everything fun is a sin that will make you go to Hell and suffer and be tortured for all eternity, then go right ahead. My dad was raised that way, and I sure don't ever plan on going back to that.

Look at all those self-righteous, wonderful heavenly creatures, way up above, pointing and laughing at people suffering the worst tortures imaginable in Hell.

Good people my ass.
 
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Duke Nukem said:
Well, if you want to go around being told that everything fun is a sin that will make you go to Hell and suffer and be tortured for all eternity, then go right ahead.
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I'm still an atheist, and I see faith used as a crutch to absolve oneself of responsibility or guilt, and to mock people. But as I got older, I realized that I didn't have the time, energy, or care to hurl myself at everything like that. For every fundie there's just someone who believes because they do. Acting smug because 'oh, I don't believe in your savagery' is literally taking the same stance on the opposite side: a sense of entitled superiority because of your belief.

In short, I'm telling you this: take a step back. Breathe. Smile. Remember that any ideology can be twisted for unethical ends, and that any and every stance has been used to excuse atrocities. You and I aren't better for being atheists, and we wouldn't be worse for being Christian.

Unless you're a fundie who sees faith above reality, and the nonbeliever as either inferior or an enemy, in which case, kindly fuck off and die.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I don't give a single fuck if you are religious or not, but I can't name any wars started by an atheist. Just saying. On the other hand, atheists also have convictions despite lack of evidence to support it, so they're really no better. I suppose it's comforting to believe that you go to a happy place when you die, though.

Don't get me started on sects, either. It's as if being the wrong denomination can land you in Hell much like being a Satanist. Lol. What's the point really.
 
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Maybe there is no God. I got threatened to go to a Psychiatric Center for simply stating to my mother I'm Agnostic.
 
Duke Nukem said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't give a single fuck if you are religious or not, but I can't name any wars started by an atheist. Just saying.
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Literally every communist dictator, and arguably many fascist ones as well. You could also argue that outside of Dubya and some of the neocon true believers, the cabal of dead-eyed NatSec ghouls that keep pushing the US into wars are generally secular sociopaths.

As for whether religion is better than non-belief, Bret Weinstein makes an interesting argument about religion being factually false, but metaphorically true; meaning that even if faith is grounded on unprovable superstion, acting is if it were real may confer tangible benefits to the believer and aid in survival, which is why most successful religions have managed to last as long as they have.

 
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I don't think it's better either way per se, I guess it depends on ones personality.

Have a think about it, draw your own conclusions, don't get angry at people who have come to their own conclusions provided they leave you alone.

I'm an atheist of the soft variety (i don't think god(s) exist but cant prove anything conclusive) and I don't feel any void in my life that needs to be filled by anything spiritual or religious, but I do understand what roles religion fulfills and that most religious are nice and sincere believers and good people.
 
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Pinup Paracelsus said:
Believe God is judging me 24/7 [...]
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Not all religions believe in a judgemental god, or even any god.

Still, it may be better to have no god rather than an angry god who throws people into a lake of fire forever (a Graham's Number of years later and the torment would still have forever to go).

Personally I believe hell is a choice -- a manifestation of one's own evil -- rather than a punishment imposed, and it may not last forever.
 
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