Is having any pet live in a container unethical? - Terrariums, aquariums, and cages..

[Space_Dandy]

Any time I see a bird or a rodent that lives all, or the majority, if its life in a small cage my heart is just broken. This is especially the case because they perceive time much slower than us. Especially a bird, they were meant to fly in the open sky... this must be hell for them.

I think this extends to reptiles, frogs, and anything else that lives in a terrarium. Reptiles aren't known for their high cognition, but I am continually amazed at the capacity for individuality, memory, and learning among such animals. My family used to have chickens, often thought to be among the dumbest animals, and I saw that they each had their own personalities and would remember things. They aren't as unthinking as people assume.

I even think this concern applies to fish. Keeping fish in a big aquarium probably isn't too bad space-wise, but I bet that air pump humming along 24-7 is unpleasant for them. They are sensitive to underwater noises and vibrations. Other marine life is affected by underwater noise pollution.

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I don't think eating meat or keeping these kinds of pets should be illegal... but I don't think we consider enough the feelings of the animals we keep around for our amusement. Having empathy is a good thing. I don't think I'll keep these kinds of pets in the future because we don't really know how happy they are, and I suspect many of them live long lives of suffering.

 

[A-Stump]

Depends. Most animals don't have much intelligence to realize their circumstances likely suck. I think it's cruel to keep primates in captivity. Monkeys realize their fate.

 

[SiccDicc]

Not if it's a mogwai.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Look at any common cage animal and what they do in the wild. Hamsters for instance often know an area as large as several square miles. With that being said, domesticated caged pets like hamsters and fancy rats aren't the same as wild animals.

It's cruel to keep them in poor conditions. Keeping a sizeable habitat for them and allowing for time out of a cage is healthy.

Wild animals should never be kept in captivity unless they have no hope of survival if returned to the wild.

Fish are food not pets who cares

 

[Weed Eater]

Some pets prefer their terrariums instead of being held or brought outside, especially in the herping community. Most species of frogs breathe through their skin, so don't touch, but do look if you happen to see them. Some people are also into venomous snakes, and those to, are handled with caution (and really only handled for cage cleaning days/bath days, and sometimes feeding). Aside from that, growing up I had a corn snake and she loved having baths, or being taken outside so she could feel the grass, and on her good days after she's been fed, she loved being handled herself. Snakes love body warmth, and what most people don't understand is that yes, they can be tamed. Regular handling and human contact makes a (non-venomous) snake usually understand that humans can be trusted. Depends on personality too!

When it comes to birds and rodents, they should definitely be handled. I'm not the biggest expert on hamsters, but mice and rats definitely should be handled and brought out of the cage. I routinely took my rat with me when I went on walks, and she loved sniffing around in the grass if I found a clean, shady spot. As for happiness, I'm sure rodents don't enjoy living a life in a cage, but the regular human interaction (and having other rat friends) doesn't really make them think about it too much. Regular food, unending playtime and naps, and constant adoration is the perfect rat life, and like to show it too. My girl would get excited whenever I got near her cage and would make it known if she wanted out. Mice are a little different, males are supposed to be kept alone as they're territorial with other males, the females can be kept in groups up to five or six, they too can get territorial. Unlike rats mice prefer to burrow and do their own thing, but they can be tamed and also depending on personality they'll end up loving their handlers.

Everything I said about rodents can be applied to birds in their own way too, they need human contact and handling, even if your bird has a partner. Much like with dogs/cats, most pets deserve their own source of contact. Hell, even some species of fish are known to grow attached to their handlers, and will learn feeding cues. Some fish will even play, and you can teach them tricks!

 

[Toolbox]

No lol. A lot of reptiles simply do not care if they are in smaller containers, especially if you supply their basic needs like lighting, decent amounts of nutritional food based on their diet, and places to dig if they require it. I'm speaking mostly about snakes here but it applies to a lot of species. More exotic ones that you couldn't consider hardy, well I agree they need way more and in many cases it is stupid for a hobbyist to even try to contain them. But even for more complex animals, a larger terrarium that has everything that meets their needs is more than enough. But there are always exceptions and anyone that does their research could determine it is stupid at best and immoral at worst to try and keep said species by themselves. This applies to more and more animals when you branch beyond this. A lot of aquatic species are a pain in the ass and require way more space than people generally provide them. Birds and mammals should be allowed to roam as much as is possible.

 

[lostkeys]

I got really into fish keeping and found that having 2 fancy (smaller) goldfish calls for a 40 gallon tank minimum. I mean, you could keep them in a tiny tank for sure, but they’ll have stunted growth and die early. Not to sound like a snob but I think most people don’t know how to care for fish very well at all. I get sad sort of sad seeing pet fish in bowls with fake plants. Plus maintaining a large beautiful tank is a low maintenance hobby if you set things up right in the beginning. I think growing the live plants is the best part.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I got really into fish keeping and found that having 2 fancy (smaller) goldfish calls for a 40 gallon tank minimum. I mean, you could keep them in a tiny tank for sure, but they’ll have stunted growth and die early. Not to sound like a snob but I think most people don’t know how to care for fish very well at all. I get sad sort of sad seeing pet fish in bowls with fake plants. Plus maintaining a large beautiful tank is a low maintenance hobby if you set things up right in the beginning. I think growing the live plants is the best part.

I agree with you that people don't know shit about fishkeeping. Someone I knew got into it for a while and was buying all sorts of creatures to fulfill the needs of a full ecosystem. That's real shit.

But I'm still gonna eat them, not pay to watch them eat.

 

[Passing Through Town]

I agree, especially in the case of birds. Unless you have a proper outdoor habitat for them, I think it's pretty fucked up to keep one. A lot of people are probably worried that the bird would leave and never come back, but I really doubt it would unless it wasn't being provided something by the owner. Wild crows return to the people who feed them, for example. They're smart. If you're nice to them, they'll even tell their family. Ravens are similar in that sense. They form their own little societies, and pass on knowledge from generation to generation.

I like what this lady says in reference to a crow she's made friends with. "He's part of my family, but he's not a pet." I think that's a good relationship for people to have with animals they want to give love to. If it's not something you'd do to or with a human being, then it's probably not something you should do to an animal. Unless it's dangerous or you're gonna eat it or something, obviously.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Some people think it's cruel to keep a dog in an apartment. My dogs might theoretically be happier on a farm, but they seem pretty content. They get to hang out with each other and me all the time since coof, and we go for walks and sniff out the day's dog-gossip morning and night. I guess in an ideal world they could be tracking birds in a field all day or herding sheep. But it seems pretty cozy to just sit by your friend and play with your toys and get fed on a schedule so I suppose it evens out. Also their wolf ancestors never would have mooched off our hunts if the wild life was that great.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

I agree, especially in the case of birds. Unless you have a proper outdoor habitat for them, I think it's pretty fucked up to keep one. A lot of people are probably worried that the bird would leave and never come back, but I really doubt it would unless it wasn't being provided something by the owner. Wild crows return to the people who feed them, for example. They're smart. If you're nice to them, they'll even tell their family. Ravens are similar in that sense. They form their own little societies, and pass on knowledge from generation to generation.

I like what this lady says in reference to a crow she's made friends with. "He's part of my family, but he's not a pet." I think that's a good relationship for people to have with animals they want to give love to. If it's not something you'd do to or with a human being, then it's probably not something you should do to an animal. Unless it's dangerous or you're gonna eat it or something, obviously.

The crow lives in your neighborhood. The pet parrot came from South America or Africa or Australia. The bird is going to (try to) fly back to where it ca,e from.

 

[Neurotypical Mantis]

really depends on the quality and size of the tank/cage

 

[Brett DeLawyer]

I can tell you none of my tarantulas seem to give a shit. Big tank, small tank, they mostly just sit there and wait for me to chuck a roach in for them.

So I guess if you want a terrarium pet, but don’t want to feel like you’re sentencing a critter to jail, get a tarantula. Just make sure it’s captive bred for maximum ethical behavior.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

I can tell you none of my tarantulas seem to give a shit. Big tank, small tank, they mostly just sit there and wait for me to chuck a roach in for them.

So I guess if you want a terrarium pet, but don’t want to feel like you’re sentencing a critter to jail, get a tarantula. Just make sure it’s captive bred for maximum ethical behavior.

Make sure you never call a female tarantula fat. She find that very offensive and will start crawling upside down.

Spoiler: Warning: FAT

 

[Manul Otocolobus]

For cats, and the right breeds of dog, living with people in a house is no big deal. As long as you fulfill their needs, and don't treat them like a houseplant. Same for most other species one would keep as a pet. The one exception to this I think is animals like parrots. A parrot was not meant to spend its life in a cage, or even in a house. They were meant to live in trees and fly. I always feel bad for birds that are captive.

 

[Spunt]

For me it comes down to "can the animal perform all, or most of, the behaviours that it would in the wild?" If an animal (other than the most intelligent and adaptable ones) can do the things it would normally do, then keeping it in the right enclosure to do that is ethical, because its quality of life is analogous to that in the wild. Remember that whilst the animal is losing its freedom, it is gaining safety from predators, guaranteed food and medical care - captivity is not necessarily a net negative.

A snake is the ideal captive pet. A wild snake hangs around doing basically nothing until there is food, at which point it eats then goes back to hanging around. Ditto spiders and other ambush predators. In even a tiny terrarium, they can do all the things they do in the wild. Fish: swim about, eat stuff. Easily accomplished in an aquarium, unless it's a species that travels long distances (but those sorts of fish tend to be way too big to keep anyway).

By contrast, keeping flying birds in a cage is unambiguously cruel. It can't even fly, let alone flock, migrate, nest or do any other bird stuff. Captive flying birds go insane from stress and often self-harm. If you want a bird (because birds are awesome), get a non-flying or not-really-flying bird and keep it in the garden. Chickens, ducks, geese, quail, peacocks, all make really good pets. They're easy to feed (chickens in particular will eat almost anything) and are much more affectionate than people think. Geese in particular bond with their owners and feel grief when their mates die. Chickens come in loads of breeds to suit your space and noise requirements. And you get eggs (about one egg per day per chicken, depending on the breed) and free garbage disposal. Wildfowl and waterfowl are very messy though.

Anything in between, well, use your judgment. But the more natural things the animal can do the more it will thrive and be happy.

 

[RollerGator]

I think reptiles are too dumb to care. They don't do much in the wild any they're prettty much just always laying prone. And by keeping them as a pet you're sparing them from the fate of being eaten alive by a predator.

But I think gorillas and orangutans should live free amongst men with all the same rights we have. They would learn to adapt to our ways, and perhaps we could strive to be gentle and peaceful like their kind.

 

[crows in guns]

I dont think so. Animals are fed and are safe in cages. I think most animals just want safety and food and not much else. Maybe if they had higher intelligence it would be cruel.

 

[trailcamwhore]

Varies by animal, breed, etc. They're not all "born free."

Somebody's racing pigeon was blown off course on a really windy day a few weeks ago, and it decided it lived in my yard. The tags on him were too vague to trace him properly, and he seemed to know what other animals to avoid, so I let him hang out and eat birdseed dropped from my feeders, thinking he'd soon get tired of not being confined and go seek his literal pigeon-hole. It took two days.

 

[snailslime]

fish no, hamsters no (if you regularly clean their cages), dogs yes