Is it more humane to execute someone or sentence them to a life in prison?

[autisticdragonkin]

But it's been proven time and time again it doesn't act as a detterant, and that infact the judicial system as a deterrent in the first place is a system that has utterly failed us. Prison doesn't teach people not to be criminals, it teaches them to be better at being criminals.

If the legal system doesn't have deterrent aspects then people will see it as rational to commit crimes and then commit them.
The real problems are Incapacitation and Retribution. Deterrence simply is making crime not pay. If someone in a proper deterrent system were to commit a crime then they are acting irrationally and should be rehabilitated in addition to being punished

 

[Some JERK]

If the legal system doesn't have deterrent aspects then people will see it as rational to commit crimes and then commit them.

Which people? Do you mean criminals, or just people in general?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Which people? Do you mean criminals, or just people in general?

I mean people in general. People who would otherwise not commit crimes would commit crimes if there was no deterrence because that would mean that they would be able to reliably get a positive payout from some crimes. Many criminals are irrational and will commit crimes regardless of whether they will reliably get a positive payout but it is more important that the majority not commit crimes than that the minority not be hurt (and with rehabilitation it will mean that criminals could be taught to rationally avoid committing crimes)

 

[Some JERK]

I mean normal people. People who would otherwise not commit crimes would commit crimes if there was no deterrence because that would mean that they would be able to reliably get a positive payout from some crimes

So you're saying that people only abide by the law because they'll get punished if they don't?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

So you're saying that people only abide by the law because they'll get punished if they don't?

I am saying that rational people only abide by the law for fear of punishment. Some people will irrationally avoid commiting crime but rational people will commit crime for personal gain if possible and reliable

 

[Some JERK]

I am saying that rational people only abide by the law for fear of punishment. Some people will irrationally avoid commiting crime but rational people will commit crime for personal gain if possible and reliable

So any rational person will lie, cheat, and steal when they're sure they can get away with it? Basically there's no morality in anyone beyond what benefits them the most?

 

[AnOminous]

I am saying that rational people only abide by the law for fear of punishment. Some people will irrationally avoid commiting crime but rational people will commit crime for personal gain if possible and reliable

It is not "irrational" to adhere to a higher moral code than mere self-interest, nor is it inherently rational to harm the society one lives in by crime for mere temporary advantage.

 

[Red]

Humans have been cooperating for hundreds of thousands of years before laws were even a thing. It varies when it comes to individuals and modern society and upbringing add a lot of variables, but in general humans are going to be hard-wired to cooperate in at least some manner. If humans were going to become solitary murderous monsters as soon as there's no punishment involved we would not have come this far.

On topic though: I, personally, don't understand what exactly about death makes it so bad. I think a bit stigma against the death penalty comes from the societal taboo towards death and killing in general. Even doctor-assisted anesthesia is considered murder by a surprisingly large portion of the world. Canada didn't sign any Right to Die acts until this year.
There's no way that dying is worse than an entire life in solitary confinement, IMO.

 

[Strelok]

Humans have been cooperating for hundreds of thousands of years before laws were even a thing. It varies when it comes to individuals and modern society and upbringing add a lot of variables, but in general humans are going to be hard-wired to cooperate in at least some manner. If humans were going to become solitary murderous monsters as soon as there's no punishment involved we would not have come this far.

On topic though: I, personally, don't understand what exactly about death makes it so bad. I think a bit stigma against the death penalty comes from the societal taboo towards death and killing in general. Even doctor-assisted anesthesia is considered murder by a surprisingly large portion of the world. Canada didn't sign any Right to Die acts until this year.
There's no way that dying is worse than an entire life in solitary confinement, IMO.

Very few inmates in for life are actually in 23 hour solitary holds though. They're usually in some manner of gen pop, unless they've already proven they can't function even in a prison environment, or commit crimes that leave them likley to get brutalized by other inmates.

Solitary holds are fucking expensive.

 

[Red]

Very few inmates in for life are actually in 23 hour solitary holds though. They're usually in some manner of gen pop, unless they've already proven they can't function even in a prison environment, or commit crimes that leave them likley to get brutalized by other inmates.

I figured so.
In the end it's something that I don't think can be generalized. Incarceration in the US is a huge mess and I, personally, would much rather be given the death penalty than any sort of long-term prison sentence for similar reasons to the OP. I remember watching a program about a prison in the US in which young inmates would serve as caretakers to lifers who were dying of old age and it was seriously one of the most depressing fucking things I've ever seen. I'm hardly unbiased on this topic though, I'm a super avid supporter of the Right to Die movement and have been for many years. In my ideal world, a person who is going to be in prison should have the choice to be humanely euthanized, both after the sentence and at any point after.
In my opinion, neither are really particularly humane because death row is a long and painful wait and sometimes innocent people are put on it while life in prison can seriously fuck someone up and make the rest of their waking days miserable. The entire incarceration system needs to be hugely changed in many places throughout the world.

 

[Glaive]

As many have already picked out, the case-by-case answer is the one I'd go with as well.

However it's worth noting that a chunk of people who commit a crime serious enough to earn a life sentence might actually improve their standard of living by going to prison. It's incredibly expensive to keep prisoners locked up. In part from all of the facilities, medical care, and equipment available to the prisoners. It may easily outdo that of low income areas nearby. Especially if we are looking at some of the northern or western european prisons. Swanky as hell.

From Switzerland

I'd rather die than go to prison for any length of time. Maybe it's just because I'm an ADD mind and can't handle boredom at all, but that's how I feel. I'd rather a cop shoot me than try to put me in handcuffs.

You would be surprised at how productive people can be in prison. Unless you end up in solitary confinment, most prisoners find themselves able to continue various studies and hobbies. Would like to point out the musician Burzum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum

I don't really listen to much metal, but I know this artist completed a full album and released it while in prison. Not only that, he played every single instrument for it himself and wound up with incredible recording quality given the equipment he had. I'm taking prison over death.

 

[AnOminous]

I figured so.
In the end it's something that I don't think can be generalized. Incarceration in the US is a huge mess and I, personally, would much rather be given the death penalty than any sort of long-term prison sentence for similar reasons to the OP. I remember watching a program about a prison in the US in which young inmates would serve as caretakers to lifers who were dying of old age and it was seriously one of the most depressing fucking things I've ever seen. I'm hardly unbiased on this topic though, I'm a super avid supporter of the Right to Die movement and have been for many years. In my ideal world, a person who is going to be in prison should have the choice to be humanely euthanized, both after the sentence and at any point after.

I would not trust such a program in our prisons-for-profit system, in which it would not shock me in the slightest if "corrections" corporations did things like lowball flat rate bid for contracts to house people and then increase their profits by coercing inmates into committing suicide, saving them the cost of housing them.

You would be surprised at how productive people can be in prison. Unless you end up in solitary confinment, most prisoners find themselves able to continue various studies and hobbies. Would like to point out the musician Burzum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum

That's Varg Vikernes. Burzum is his project.

You have to love a country where you can murder a dude and burn down a bunch of churches and be out of prison soon enough to continue your musical career.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Humans have been cooperating for hundreds of thousands of years before laws were even a thing. It varies when it comes to individuals and modern society and upbringing add a lot of variables, but in general humans are going to be hard-wired to cooperate in at least some manner. If humans were going to become solitary murderous monsters as soon as there's no punishment involved we would not have come this far.

Laws are not the only form of deterrence. Social ostracism is another form of deterrence.

It is not "irrational" to adhere to a higher moral code than mere self-interest, nor is it inherently rational to harm the society one lives in by crime for mere temporary advantage.

If you know that most people will not commit crime then you can "cheat" by committing crimes. There still are dumb people who don't realize that this is a variant on the prisoners dilemma and will not commit crime "out of the goodness of their hearts"

 

[AnOminous]

If you know that most people will not commit crime then you can "cheat" by committing crimes. There still are dumb people who don't realize that this is a variant on the prisoners dilemma and will not commit crime "out of the goodness of their hearts"

I find the notion that it is "dumb" not to commit crimes because it violates one's sense of morality rather repellent.

I hope you're kidding.

 

[Red]

I would not trust such a program in our prisons-for-profit system, in which it would not shock me in the slightest if "corrections" corporations did things like lowball flat rate bid for contracts to house people and then increase their profits by coercing inmates into committing suicide, saving them the cost of housing them.

Oh, absolutely. It's just me being an idealist-- that shit could never work how it is now. The entire incarceration system needs to be changed before this debate could ever be applied to the real world.

I find the notion that it is "dumb" not to commit crimes because it violates one's sense of morality rather repellent.

Where have I seen this before...

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I find the notion that it is "dumb" not to commit crimes because it violates one's sense of morality rather repellent.

I hope you're kidding.

Although ones own sense of morality will detail what will in a healthy society be penalized if the environment shifts sufficiently from our ancestral environment for what is punishable then it will become irrational to act morally. To be safe one should still see moral action as the default though

 

[SpessCaptain]

This for me is something I constantly can't wrap my head around, wouldn't a life behind bars be more better than no life at all? Sometimes life-sentences are deducted and removed if they are showing signs of good progress.

I don't live in a country that executes anymore - they stopped in the 1980s so I don't know much about executions and their effects. So I'm not living in a hell land run down by criminals in jails.

 

[Len Kagamoney]

I wrote a paper in high school on Capital Punishment (I argued against it, because I believe killing someone who killed someone is hypocritical)
Fact: Capital Punishment costs more than keeping an inmate in prison for life

However, this subject is touchy like human euthanasia.
Like you, Null, I would rather die than be subject to life in prison, because I would be bored too.
But upon talking to a girl who went to prison for drugs, I found out there were a lot of groups to help people reform and get better. You could socialize with other prisoners, and some prisons even offered classes. My lab professor for anatomy taught a class at a prison once, and he said the students knew a lot of the material because they had all this time to study. I also remember hearing a story of a homeless man who went to prison so he could get surgery.
After a certain amount of time, your case may be reassessed and depending on psychiatric testing and your performance you may be set free or given a lesser sentence.

Sometimes However, there are plenty of cases where inmates were proven innocent after their execution.

A little bit of powerleveling here, but in my philosophy class we discussed this and we talked about how prison/jail is supposed to be reformatory, and also inflict suffering as well. It's supposed to correct you.

I personally have an issue with capital punishment, as punishing someone for killing by killing them is backwards

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Fact: Capital Punishment costs more than keeping an inmate in prison for life

The only reason for that is that there is stupid legal stuff that needs to be gotten out of the way. That isn't an argument against capital punishment its an argument against large inefficient legal bureaucracy

 

[Sanae Kochiya]

I've seen some posts here already mention that capital punishment is more expensive than a life sentence, so there's that.

Personally, this kinda boils down to who you are considering it humane for. This might sound a bit obtuse so bear with me.

For society at large, it might seem that a life sentence is more humane. It gives off this air of civilized, educated reasoning, of being above the brutality and depravity of the killers and murderers that they prosecute and, while they might find their actions abhorrent, they would never go so far as to stoop to their level and take a life in exchange for another. I've heard a couple of arguments regarding capital punishment that like approaching it from this moralistic stance, that society has this responsibility to be moral and just even when dealing with its lowest cretins.

On a more concentrated, individual standpoint, though, you could argue that a death sentence is more moral to languishing away in a toxic environment where the depressing and volatile conditions chip away at your sanity. I've heard a couple of people say that they'd rather see mass murderers and pedophiles suffer for years in prison rather than simply being offed, since they would theoretically die either way and the latter just prolongs their suffering.

I'm honestly undecided, but if someone pressured me for a response I'd probably be against capital punishment purely because I'm very squeamish and the idea of killing others is rather unsettling to me. However, it's a really nuanced issue and honestly there's no "good" answer at the end of it all.