Is life deterministic, or do we have free will?

As all known phenomena are either deterministic (traditional physics) or probabilistic (quantum physics), it stands to reason that consciousness, being itself an emergent phenomenon in the physical world, is either deterministic, probabilistic, or a combination of the two. Either case would preclude the existence of free will. However, just as a deterministic event can be sufficiently complex as to be indistinguishable from randomness, such as flipping a coin or rolling a die, so too can a deterministic system be sufficiently complex as to be indistinguishable from free will.

In any case, it makes little difference; what are we going to do, stop prosecuting criminals? No, their behavior needs correction regardless of whether it's deterministic. It's a moot point in almost every regard. We either have free will or something soindistinguishable from it that it may as well be thought of as such. Dwelling on it is splitting hairs.
 
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A nondeterministic universe isn't necessarily one where we have free will. We might be the product of nondeterministic events while having no more say in the outcomes/directions of the processes that produce us than in a deterministic system.

Nitpicking aside IDK lol, and you bet my ass I'll keep on living as if I have free will.
 
If anything I’d say overthinking it makes it more deterministic. Just living your life and being at least somewhat spontaneous are the only ways to have free will. When you enjoy the ride you can find yourself getting to places you never would’ve imagined reaching and when you get autistic you essentially guarantee you’ll never get anywhere other than where you decided you would in your head
 
crowabunga said:
you bet my ass I'll keep on living as if I have free will.
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There's no alternative anyway. If you sit around eating Cheetos every day because your actions are irrelevant and everything is pre-determined, you'll end up with exactly the same outcome as if you chose to sit around eating Cheetos every day as a free choice.

Being ignorant of a deterministic outcome is functionally the same as having free will.
 
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Your fate is kind of free but not. It is determined by your genetics, than your circumstances and your past experiences based on that.

A lot like how an AI model works. If you are white, you are less likely to chimp out than a nog. If life is good and rewards you for not chimping, you will choose not to chimp.

If you are a nignog, your past experiences tell you chimpout is good, and and other nogs chimp out, you automatically chimp out too.
 
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In this world, consciousness seems to be greatly or absolutely impacted by deterministic factors and environment, to a degree where whether if it's entirely deterministic or not, is largely irrelevant.

Meaning your brain, as one tiny gear within this giant butterfly effect called the universe, will most likely spin as determined by the effect itself, so you may not have any non-insignificant degree of "free will", regardless of the answer to your question.

However, you should "try" to live your life as if you can take decisions, because with this knowledge in your mind, you will probably take better & healthier decisions.

It may even part of causality, that you, with this idea in mind, regardless of whether "free" or not, will make you stand up from the couch and get some exercise, instead of eating Doritos and Dorito dust stuck in your shirt, resulting in a better life.
 
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dick brain said:
As all known phenomena are either deterministic (traditional physics) or probabilistic (quantum physics), it stands to reason that consciousness, being itself an emergent phenomenon in the physical world, is either deterministic, probabilistic, or a combination of the two. Either case would preclude the existence of free will. However, just as a deterministic event can be sufficiently complex as to be indistinguishable from randomness, such as flipping a coin or rolling a die, so too can a deterministic system be sufficiently complex as to be indistinguishable from free will.
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Theres an entire school of thought that doesn't believe determinism and freewill are mutually incompatible. ie compatibilism.
 
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I didn't choose to set myself on fire today, which I could have. You know with all the gasoline and lighters around and what not. So I consider that a piece of the freedom of will that I inherited. The freedom to not set myself on fire that is.
 
Free will is a sacred gift to humanity from God, and it is critically important to our relationship with God.

As you should know, God needs nothing, he's God, but what God wants from us is genuine reciprocation of love he gives us. We cannot deliver that to him without the freedom of will to choose to do it. God doesn't want us to be forced or coerced into loving him as that would be disingenuous, and thus of no value.
 
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No way to know for sure, but temporary deprivation of (observable) free will is the basis of deception.
 
dick brain said:
Either case would preclude the existence of free will.
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The mechanism by which probabilistic outcomes are drawn is completely unknown and perhaps unknowable. It could very well be the case that the mechanism of free will is some sort of metaphysical control over quantum outcomes in the brain. I'm not saying that's the case, just that it's an equally valid interpretation of quantum theory as one that assumes determinism.

Theoretical physics is unfortunately unable to help here, and quantum mechanics has put us back in the arms of philosophy. Philosophically, determinism would make access to knowledge impossible, rendering knowledge itself impossible. Under that paradigm you couldnt know the difference between free will and determinism, because you would have been determined to reach one outcome or the other and thus the question itself is meaningless unless you presuppose a free will paradigm.
 
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Ibanez RG 350EX said:
There are perfectly reasonable justifications for punishment of bad/evil behavior that don't require free will.
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The only determinists I ever encounter are either edgelord atheists or Catholics/Calvinists who don't want to admit that they're cunts.
 
Ibanez RG 350EX said:
Compatibilism is just determinism without getting depressed about the world being deterministic. It adds absolutely nothing to the concept.
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determinism doesn't really add anything either. If determinism is true should we believe in determinism or not? Doesn't matter. We're just the way we are and will be and nothing can change that. Okay I guess we should be nihilists then. Nope, can't even choose that. You have no agency at all not even the agency to be affected from your predetermined path by the information you have no agency. This discussion is completely pointless so why are you having it? Why am I questioning you having it? And on and on ad infinitum.
 
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