Is life deterministic, or do we have free will?

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

The existence of quantum effects suggests we have free will and aren't just biological machines governed by certain patterns like atheists want us to believe.

Free will is a sacred gift to humanity from God, and it is critically important to our relationship with God.

As you should know, God needs nothing, he's God, but what God wants from us is genuine reciprocation of love he gives us. We cannot deliver that to him without the freedom of will to choose to do it. God doesn't want us to be forced or coerced into loving him as that would be disingenuous, and thus of no value.

If God is God, you have no free will.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

If God is God, you have no free will.

Maybe your god is. Not mine.

 

[Preacher ✝]

If God is God, you have no free will.

That's about as dumb a statement as supporting drawn CP.

Because God is God only he has the power to give us free will.

 

[Otterly]

Nitpicking aside IDK lol, and you bet my ass I'll keep on living as if I have free will.

Yeah I think this is very true. If you live as if you do t have free will you end up in some dark places. It’s kind of fatalistic and ends up removing agency. So it’s better to live like you do.

I think it’s one of the things we can’t ever know, but I personally believe we have free will. I believe God has given us this, which is quite remarkable, when you think about it.

 

[Latex Catmaid]

Maybe your god is. Not mine.

That's about as dumb a statement as supporting drawn CP.

Because God is God only he has the power to give us free will.

Methinks the point they were making was that god can see into the future and folks have been blessed to know what the future was entailing at least that's a tidbit I learned from watching the valle verde arg on youtube where I was told the 9/11 attack was predicted.

If god knows the future and his word is absolute, then every event from your birth all the way to your death is deterministic. Think of it like Final Destination, except if you manage to survive your immediate cause of death, you just get a heart attack or your brain shuts down tomorrow.

Even from an atheist standpoint life seems deterministic, you can control your own behavior, but not others. Let's say someone robs the bank and you are in there, do you think you could avoid it?
It's based on 2 aspects that are out of your control:

1. You can't know the bank will be robbed that day, you're not fortune teller.
2. You agin can't control the robber's choices and actions.

So in every timeline this event will play out the same way.

If you take the robber out of the equation and it's just about you. The problem is you only know how you feel at the moment and humans are emotional creatures, so it's highly likely you repeat the same actions in every timelines. If free will was real, there's wouldn't be "npcs".

Holy that was way mlre than I wanted to write moly.

 

[teriyakiburns]

It's been my experience that people, whether religious, atheist, or anything in between, who argue for a purely deterministic, no-free-will view of the universe, are usually looking for a justification to continue doing things they know they probably shouldn't do.

If god knows the future and his word is absolute, then every event from your birth all the way to your death is deterministic.

But if God is truly all-knowing, then he can see, with absolute clarity, all potential futures from all potential choices. Knowing the outcomes of the choices you take doesn't mean he is dictating those choices, or that you could make no other choice. It just means that he can see where every path leads.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Methinks the point they were making was that god can see into the future and folks have been blessed to know what the future was entailing at least that's a tidbit I learned from watching the valle verde arg on youtube where I was told the 9/11 attack was predicted.

If god knows the future and his word is absolute,

This is where the argument fails.
At what point can you define what actually is absolute in the grand scheme of things?

then every event from your birth all the way to your death is deterministic.

It can't be, not even in the materialist sense, let alone in the higher power sense.
You might as well release all prisoners and allow corpse fuckers to do as they please, since all of it is predetermined causation or some shit and I know about 0 people in their right mind who'd throw law and order to the find because of a ridiculous concept as predeterminism.

Think of it like Final Destination, except if you manage to survive your immediate cause of death, you just get a heart attack or your brain shuts down tomorrow.

Stupid concept to begin with,

Even from an atheist standpoint life seems deterministic,

Not even. Only.
Atheism cannot deal with anything supernatural by sheer definition. It's all chaos and order is an illusion. But good luck finding an atheist outside of the Serial Killers Convention who'd actually live by that philosophy.

you can control your own behavior, but not others. Let's say someone robs the bank and you are in there, do you think you could avoid it?
It's based on 2 aspects that are out of your control:

1. You can't know the bank will be robbed that day, you're not fortune teller.
2. You agin can't control the robber's choices and actions.

What if I can? No specific conditions or anything, but what if I can control these things?

So in every timeline this event will play out the same way.

Not if I can control it.

If you take the robber out of the equation and it's just about you. The problem is you only know how you feel at the moment and humans are emotional creatures, so it's highly likely you repeat the same actions in every timelines. If free will was real, there's wouldn't be "npcs".

This is just idiotic mumbo jumbo. You're not making any point, but talk about some bullshit Marvel movie physics nonsense.

Holy that was way mlre than I wanted to write moly.

Lay off the weed, man.

 

[draggs]

From an empirical view both are unprovable

Determinism implies that if you know all the variables and their values you can predict an event. The event here being a human thought, feeling, or action. But we can't know all the variables or their values comprehensively or accurately. And quantum mechanics and chaos theory both essentially say you can't predict all events in any context even if you know all the variables and their values. Determinism is inherently reductionist. Reductionism in many contextes has been pretty well destroyed by the last hundred+ years of I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE

Similarly, you can't prove empirically that the event of a human thought, feeling, or action was made "freely"

And arguing solely from reason is usually a waste of time because the premises are themselves usually weak for such a complex topic as human thought and behavior, and then you throw emotions in...

 

[Preacher ✝]

If god knows the future and his word is absolute, then every event from your birth all the way to your death is deterministic. Think of it like Final Destination, except if you manage to survive your immediate cause of death, you just get a heart attack or your brain shuts down tomorrow.

That's Calvinist dual predestination and its heresy.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

Human beings can make choices. Complex ones, or simple ones. We make choices every day that don't even matter to our survival. Therefore, we have free will.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

I don't think it really matters.
Think of it this way: If it's deterministic then there's nothing you can do about and the fact that you're questioning it at all was predetermined
If you have free will then why do anything about it? You have free will.

 

[Feral Postie]

Life is deterministic and there was nothing anyone could have actually done to avoid their current circumstances. It doesn't matter though because the illusion of freewill makes for happier people even if it isn't true.

 

[Latex Catmaid]

Lay off the weed, man.

That's the biggest non-argument I've seen here. You really live to your reputation in this forum. I'd suggest you do something about it so you stop the bullying you're getting in the covid 19 thread, but that'd require not being an npc that reacts emotionally to everything.

Not even. Only.

Yes, "not even".
Even among atheist circles this is not a popular opinion. Kurgesagt the biggest science channel on youtube thinks people have free will and those evil folks like me who think it doesn't exist are depicted as evil viruses gremlins.

Anyways it doesn't matter if you're christian or not because that's a belief anybody can have and a belief you can develop relatively easily after living a long time, you realize that folks are incapable of critical thinking, free will or even introspection. In a world where every outcome was truely random, predicting them would be impossible and whoever predicted 9/11 even by word of god wouldn't have predicted it right.

This is just idiotic mumbo jumbo. You're not making any point, but talk about some bullshit Marvel movie physics nonsense.

Did I hurt the npc's fragile feelings?

That's Calvinist dual predestination and its heresy.

Two words: "The Cross"
Yes that cross in your username. Do you know what it signifies?

Human beings can make choices. Complex ones, or simple ones. We make choices every day that don't even matter to our survival. Therefore, we have free will.

Bad argument when the said choices are predetermined by the chemicals in your blood.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

Bad argument when the said choices are predetermined by the chemicals in your blood.

You might be right about things being predetermined because every time I see a pink triangle I immediately dismiss everything you have to say as worthless

 

[Preacher ✝]

Yes that cross in your username. Do you know what it signifies?

I know it far more than you think you do, pink triangle holder.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

That's the biggest non-argument I've seen here.

Is it because you're predetermined to be on weed?

You really live to your reputation in this forum. I'd suggest you do something about it so you stop the bullying you're getting in the covid 19 thread, but that'd require not being an npc that reacts emotionally to everything.

I've about half of an idea of what that meant, but I appreciate the rep acknowledgement.

Yes, "not even".
Even among atheist circles this is not a popular opinion.

I've been around those circles. It's irrelevant what they "think" since by their definition there must be a logical end to existence and their end is predeterminism.

Kurgesagt the biggest science channel on youtube thinks people have free will and those evil folks like me who think it doesn't exist are depicted as evil viruses gremlins.

lol
He also believes there is an infinite amount of super cosmic gods and the universe is a massive super entity with a single shared experience. We all are one and the same. The evidence? Fuck all.
Yeah, I saw his egg video. It sucked and if you want to still consider him a science man, bar all the other horseshit he peddles, by all means.

Anyways it doesn't matter if you're christian or not because that's a belief anybody can have and a belief you can develop relatively easily after living a long time, you realize that folks are incapable of critical thinking,

I know that.
Atheists blatantly refuse to think critically all the time.

free will or even introspection.

Yeah. The materialists are all about introspection.

In a world where every outcome was truely random, predicting them would be impossible and whoever predicted 9/11 even by word of god wouldn't have predicted it right.

Nobody predicted 9/11.

If nothing else, you're the predetermined proof how stupid and cringe people of your outlook are.
But fear not. We all have to grow up some day, kid.

 

[Meriasek]

The existence of quantum effects suggests we have free will and aren't just biological machines governed by certain patterns like atheists want us to believe.

I don't know, I think neurons are too large for that to be significant, and they hinge on electrochemical potentials that would require many molecules for interaction, and many body systems will add up towards classical behaviour.

I think it's all deterministic, but due to the complexity of the brain it is impossible to predict. Every instant of consciousness is determined by the sum of the states of all neurons and determined by all previous states and external influences and is thus deterministic, but it is impossible to predict. As such, free will is a perfect illusion.

 

[Str8Bustah]

Two words: "The Cross"
Yes that cross in your username. Do you know what it signifies?

It doesn't mean predestination, that's for sure. I have no idea who taught you about the faith but it's evident they didn't do a very good job, so I'm going to give you a bit of reading homework:

https://pemptousia.com/2017/09/sermon-on-the-precious-and-life-giving-cross-part-1/

https://pemptousia.com/2017/09/sermon-on-the-precious-and-life-giving-cross-part-2/

 

[Latex Catmaid]

It doesn't mean predestination, that's for sure. I have no idea who taught you about the faith but it's evident they didn't do a very good job, so I'm going to give you a bit of reading homework:

https://pemptousia.com/2017/09/sermon-on-the-precious-and-life-giving-cross-part-1/

https://pemptousia.com/2017/09/sermon-on-the-precious-and-life-giving-cross-part-2/

Your savior died horribly on the cross and everything up to that point was orchestrated from the beginning. From the day he was born, he was fated to die this way to save humanity and undo the original sin. I reckon it's written black on white in the bible.

There was nothing he could've done to save himself.

 

[Troonfag Gayop]

Your savior died horribly on the cross and everything up to that point was orchestrated from the beginning. From the day he was born, he was fated to die this way to save humanity and undo the original sin. I reckon it's written black on white in the bible.

There was nothing he could've done to save himself.

No wonder you have a pink triangle.