Is there any reason for humanity to be optimistic at all?

[Burned Man]

I find it interesting that humanity can be such a catalyst for survival of the fittest while at the same time refusing that concept within humanity. I mean, human presence can have such adverse effect on wild life and cause their destruction and that's nature. And at the same time humans do what they can to prevent anyone dying if they can help it. Humans continue to pass harmful genetics because of medical care and the less harsh nature of existence these days allows a wider group to survive. Also the future of Human evolution seems to be in human hands baring some kind of global catastrophe. The future for humanity seems to be pretty bright.

 

[wheat pasta]

But... there's not any inherent value in the selection of species we have. I mean, maybe they're nice to go look at in zoos, but just out in the wild? They're unnecessary if they can't survive. That's evolution and it happens constantly. Humanity is just a branch of our evolutionary tree that hasn't died out yet.

There's some truth in that, I was mostly speaking about humanity as an extinction event. We're causing a lot of species to die out just by existing, expanding and so on. I dunno, it's something I ruminate on a lot but I'm just a dumb kid who hasn't gone out into the world yet, so there's that also

 

[Marvin]

There's some truth in that, I was mostly speaking about humanity as an extinction event. We're causing a lot of species to die out just by existing, expanding and so on. I dunno, it's something I ruminate on a lot but I'm just a dumb kid who hasn't gone out into the world yet, so there's that also

We're a species too. The intelligence that we've developed helps the human species survive and beat out other species. Intelligence is just like claws or sharp teeth or anything else that helps you win against competing groups.

 

[BT 075]

There's a reason to stay optimistic, always! No one likes a Negative Nancy or a Pessimistic Peter. Sobbing about how we're all going to die isn't helping anyone. Sure we'll die, sure we'll see our fair share of natural disasters and wars. Sure there's misery ahead, but there's also joy to be had.

For the past month-and-a-half I have lived in a third world country. I have seen poverty, hunger. An elderly relative crying when I bought him a new pair of glasses allowing him to see. They have it much worse then I ever did and yet they keep their heads up and make the most of it. I'll die a happy man knowing I have been able to help at least a few of them. The world will still suck balls for far too many people, but that's just the way the world works.

You don't have to carry the weight of the whole world on your shoulders. Just, do what Michael Jackson did (besides the fiddling) and look at the man or woman in the mirror. Be excellent to each other, have fun, and don't always be so damn gloomy. Won't do anyone any good, least of all yourselves.

 

[exball]

There's a reason to stay optimistic, always! No one likes a Negative Nancy or a Pessimistic Peter. Sobbing about how we're all going to die isn't helping anyone. Sure we'll die, sure we'll see our fair share of natural disasters and wars. Sure there's misery ahead, but there's also joy to be had.

For the past month-and-a-half I have lived in a third world country. I have seen poverty, hunger. An elderly relative crying when I bought him a new pair of glasses allowing him to see. They have it much worse then I ever did and yet they keep their heads up and make the most of it. I'll die a happy man knowing I have been able to help at least a few of them. The world will still suck balls for far too many people, but that's just the way the world works.

You don't have to carry the weight of the whole world on your shoulders. Just, do what Michael Jackson did (besides the fiddling) and look at the man or woman in the mirror. Be excellent to each other, have fun, and don't always be so damn gloomy. Won't do anyone any good, least of all yourselves.

Good guy Lucifer.

 

[citizenoftheinternet]

There's a reason to stay optimistic, always! No one likes a Negative Nancy or a Pessimistic Peter. Sobbing about how we're all going to die isn't helping anyone. Sure we'll die, sure we'll see our fair share of natural disasters and wars. Sure there's misery ahead, but there's also joy to be had.

For the past month-and-a-half I have lived in a third world country. I have seen poverty, hunger. An elderly relative crying when I bought him a new pair of glasses allowing him to see. They have it much worse then I ever did and yet they keep their heads up and make the most of it. I'll die a happy man knowing I have been able to help at least a few of them. The world will still suck balls for far too many people, but that's just the way the world works.

You don't have to carry the weight of the whole world on your shoulders. Just, do what Michael Jackson did (besides the fiddling) and look at the man or woman in the mirror. Be excellent to each other, have fun, and don't always be so damn gloomy. Won't do anyone any good, least of all yourselves.

I recall reading an article (I forget when/where) that stated the citizens of poorer countries tend to be happier than those of more prosperous. I think what it boils down to is perspective; people living in poverty look at little improvements to their quality of life as blessings.

Your story about the glasses reminded me of a picture of a guy using plastic bottles for shoes-- and he couldn't have looked happier if he tried.

 

[Holdek]

I recall reading an article (I forget when/where) that stated the citizens of poorer countries tend to be happier than those of more prosperous. I think what it boils down to is perspective; people living in poverty look at little improvements to their quality of life as blessings.

From what I've read, money has a positive relationship to happiness, but only up to the point where security and needs are met. Then it plateaus.

Bhutan, of all places, has pioneered a Gross Domestic Happiness index or somesuch. Bhutan is a happy country even though it's "poor," but it also is stable and the citizens mostly have what they need. They don't have much luxury but they have good family lives and other intangibles.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

They say earning about $75,000 a year in the US is what you need to be happy. I don't remember who said that or how they came to that conclusion, but that's what I heard.

 

[Holdek]

But... there's not any inherent value in the selection of species we have. I mean, maybe they're nice to go look at in zoos, but just out in the wild? They're unnecessary if they can't survive. That's evolution and it happens constantly. Humanity is just a branch of our evolutionary tree that hasn't died out yet.

I posted "disagree" on this. However, I believe an explanation is in order:

Spoiler: TL;DR

I agree with you fundamentally that there is no inherent value to the species we have (actually, I don't believe that is an inherent value to anything, but I digress), but, the value of the selection of species we have to us as humans can be calculated in terms of what they provide us as people.

Overfishing, for example, means eating sushi will likely become a thing of the past at some point, and will result massive economic losses for industries based around it, from fishing to restaurants. And, many people enjoy seeing animals in their native habitat in addition to, or rather than, in zoos. They enjoy birding, or seeing animals when they are out camping and such.

And, most importantly, while you are correct that extinction is, and always has been, happening, the rate of extinction has gone up dramatically since the Agricultural Revolution. That has caused problems for humans. The Nazca civilization collapsed after they made virtually extinct a particular species of tree in order to make room for cropland, not realizing, or not sufficiently appreciating, that that tree created and preserved the water table that the population depended on for irrigation and drinking, and also prevented the soil erosion that ironically ultimately caused massive crop failure. So, my primary worry is that when you pluck one species that seems relatively unimportant from an ecosystem, it turns out to be a lynchpin that holds together the means for humans to survive. Colony collapse disorder is scary as shit to me for this reason.

I don't really get the attachment to preserving the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil drilling, because who the hell goes on vacation to northeast Alaska? But when animal extinction portends human extinction (or, at least, the extinction of a particular civilization), I do Not care for it. Basically we need to be careful and not dismiss out of hand as "tree hugging" or "snail darter hysteria" alarms about plant and animal extinction.

 

[Marvin]

I posted "disagree" on this. However, I believe an explanation is in order:

Spoiler: TL;DR

I agree with you fundamentally that there is no inherent value to the species we have (actually, I don't believe that is an inherent value to anything, but I digress), but, the value of the selection of species we have to us as humans can be calculated in terms of what they provide us as people. Overfishing, for example, means eating sushi will likely become a thing of the past at some point, and will result in economic destruction for industries based around it, from fishing to restaurants. Many people enjoy seeing animals in nature. And, most importantly, while you are correct that extinction is, and always has been, happening, the rate of extinction has gone up dramatically as a result of the agricultural revolution. That has caused problems for humans. The Nazca civilization collapsed after they made virtually extinct a particular species of tree, as that tree created and preserved the water table that the population depended on for irrigation and drinking, and also prevented the soil erosion that ultimately caused massive crop failure. So, my primary worry is that you pluck one species that seems relatively unimportant from an ecosystem, and it turns out that species happens to be a lynchpin that holds together the means for humans to survive. Colony collapse disorder is scary as shit to me for this reason.

I don't really get the attachment to preserving the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil drilling, because who the hell goes on vacation to northeast Alaska? But when animal extinction portends human extinction (or, at least, the extinction of a particular civilization), I do Not care for it.

People are using emotional triggers to get people to support their cause. And on a large scale, that's exactly what they should be doing to achieve their goals. It's definitely an effective way to go about it.

But when I'm talking to people personally, like I'm doing here, I've gotta point out that the emotional stuff doesn't make a good argument. If you can't point to a specific benefit or detriment to people, it's not a good argument.

So, yeah, I got an email about CCD and insecticides, asking me to sign a petition or donate or something. And I did sign the petition (or whatever they were asking for). I did it because bees are extremely important to agriculture (and thus humans), and it would be worthwhile to postpone approving the insecticide until we can get a better idea of its effects. But I felt kind of annoyed by this email, because while I agreed with their underlying premise, the email was full of things like "IT'S A LETHAL INSECTICIDE" and similar bullshit. But, like... it's lethal to insects, which is exactly its purpose.

As far as destroying ourselves by killing our environment... I'm not terribly worried about that. Like, if the environment is fragile enough to fall like that, then that might just be what ends us. We'd be just another extinct civilization (or species). Just like the Nazca, we don't have infinite knowledge. We are always at the current limit of our knowledge in keeping ourselves alive.

(Also, CCD isn't really an environmental issue. It's more related to farmed bees.)

 

[geronimo_smith]

What we've got going for us:

• We haven't completely fucked ourselves so far.
  
• We're living better lives than ever before due to the industrial revolution and there's no sign of that slowing down.
• American hegemony is relatively benevolent and has generally been pretty good at promoting economic grown and discouraging armed conflict.

What we've got going against us:

• We've never had the ability to completely fuck ourselves until now. How do we know we won't now that we do?
  
• The Industrial Revolution only happened 200 years ago -- that's only a blip in the grand scheme of things. There's no reason why it would continue indefinitely.
• America won't last forever and there's no guarantee that it won't be replaced by savages. The Roman empire only lasted 500-600 years before being replaced by hoards of barbarians and Arabians. (Imagine what those people could have done with nuclear weapons.)

So overall I'm going with a major societal collapse. Maybe not for another 500 years, but things can't stay this way forever.

 

[exball]

Best case scenario Star Trek. Worst case scenario Fallout.

 

[IwegalBadnik]

I don't really get the attachment to preserving the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil drilling, because who the hell goes on vacation to northeast Alaska? But when animal extinction portends human extinction (or, at least, the extinction of a particular civilization), I do Not care for it. Basically we need to be careful and not dismiss out of hand as "tree hugging" or "snail darter hysteria" alarms about plant and animal extinction.

There is great irony in the discussion of oil drilling and extinction of animals--in that extinction is a common theme. The fact that many people still cling to that obsolete technology at the expense of creatures' existences is something that can really dampen optimism.

We can only hope there is new reason for hope and optimism brought by other means and developments.

 

[Holdek]

There is great irony in the discussion of oil drilling and extinction of animals

Heh, and also, massive extinction events caused the oil to form in the first place.

 

[The Dude]

Honestly, I'm not optimistic about humanity. The world is a mad, fucked up place. There is beauty in the madness, but it's still mad. I fully expect for most societies to collapse and everything to extend into chaos. Don't forget, there are still 16,500+ nuclear weapons in the world. Despite the face that the Cold War is over and the Soviet Union is dead (longer than some forum members have even been alive) a thermonuclear war can still happen in a number of ways. The super volcano under Yellowstone could erupt at any time, sending our world into a new ice age. We could be hit by an asteroid or rogue pulsar star at any time. So many things can, and will, eventually happen to destroy our race...it's all a matter of "when". But, I don't let that get me down. I'll live my life the best I can until the day I (or we all) die. That's all any of us can do.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

My philosophy is hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Take time out to appreciate the little things that make you happy.

 

[Jaimas]

Humanity as a whole is fucking awesome.

Yeah, we've fucked up a lot. Yeah, we've made constant mis-steps, we've screwed things up, we've done bad, and we've suffered for it, but through it, our best traits shine through. There's a common thread people are starting to recognize. There's better things out there, and people are learning from one another, growing. Political parties are becoming less important, and common humanity in spite of disagreements is starting to reign. We're leaving behind stupider ideologies, and we're improving ourselves.

We have a lot to fight through, a lot of stupid we have to face, and a lot of bad shit to come in our path, but through that, we'll trudge, because we're fucking humanity and we fucking rule at that shit. We're getting better. We're getting stronger.

There's a lot out there to look forward to, so take a sip and let's enjoy that shit.

 

[exball]

 

[Olhelm]

Dude, what?

Of course you should be optimistic. In the great scheme of things you may be tiny, but here, and now? You're massive. On your fingertips right now is the largest compilation of knowledge we've ever created. In your home you have warmth, food, and a life. You have friends that are willing to lend an ear for any problem you may have.

Do you mess up? Yes. Do you destroy? Occasionally, even if it is unintentional. But that's the glory of being human. Mistakes lead to success. This is true for almost anything, from evolution to a video game (or video games about evolution). You hold the potential for greatness in your each and every cell. Your brain, the most complex piece of machinery in the world, can compute at such a rapid pace minute information, that you have the capacity to learn and benefit your fellow man. The world itself is bent to serve you, and all one needs to do is reach out and grab the fruits.

Humanity is only decades away from solar travel. Humanity is only years from an efficient hydrogen engine. And you, one of the many members of humanity, are only seconds away from doing something amazing.

 

[Rammspieler]

I dunno. Maybe we won't cause our own extinction right away. But there may always be prejudice, inequality, ignorance and all around nastiness towards others. That's why I've been thinking about asking within my atheist group about how realistically possible would it be to kickstart the construction of our own little interstellar ark. I think it would be awesome to think of the possibilities of building a new civilization from scratch and away from the negative influences of the old one. Project Ascension, anyone?