Artcow Jason Yungbluth / IamDeathRay / DeathRayGraphics / Wrathofporkins

[Death Ray]

Yes, but Richard Pace is Anti-CG and supposedly a professional. How can you claim Meyer is participating in a racket when he's delivered, but Pace hasn't and so far has only updated his Kickstarter because Meyer has fulfilled his end of the deal.

A Kickstarter, by definition, is a leap of faith. The "racket" is simply that CG citizens are being milked for their rage dollars, but CG itself is simply running on its own inertia. So you don't like Marvel? So what? Don't buy 'em. Nothing CG stands for is "moving the needle" one bit.

But CG knows this. I only felt like calling out Ethan (as CG's spokesman) on his bullshit. And as you saw, he had no answer for me. So, QED.

 

[Jub-Jub]

"Scam" implies that the citizenry of CG is being ripped off through their purchases. "Racket", as I use the term implies a business that may be legit, but is still dishonest or lacks integrity.

Why would I? My name isn't Richard Pace. All my Kickstarters have shipped on time.

You can quote and reply to more than one person in a single post. What exactly is dishonest or lacks integrity with these IGGs? What classifies these as a 'racket'? Do you call all of the extremely late Anti-CG Kickstarters Scams or Rackets?

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

"Racket", as I use the term implies a business that may be legit, but is still dishonest or lacks integrity.

Where is any dishonesty or lack of integrity in what Richard Meyer or Ethan Daniel Van Sciver doing?

 

[SiccDicc]

A Kickstarter, by definition, is a leap of faith. The "racket" is simply that CG citizens are being milked for their rage dollars, but CG itself is simply running on its own inertia. So you don't like Marvel? So what? Don't buy 'em. Nothing CG stands for is "moving the needle" one bit.

But CG knows this. I only felt like calling out Ethan (as CG's spokesman) on his bullshit. And as you saw, he had no answer for me. So, QED.

That's not a racket, that's finding an audience. No different than Anti-CG milking the SJW crowd -- if you could actually get them to buy your comics instead of them getting from scan-sites.

And that's what CG is doing, by the way, they don't like Marvel so they stopped buying from Marvel. What happened was there was people seeing a demand and they wished to be the supplier. That's business. You find a need or want and you fill it. Just because the Big Two are dumb enough to ignore the whales doesn't make what Meyer and Sciver are doing immoral. It's what DC should be doing to Marvel, being a competitor. If anything is a racket it's those two considering how they force comic shops to buy a certain amount of X - which sells poorly - so they can get the the Y - which can be trusted to sell.

 

[Death Ray]

You can quote and reply to more than one person in a single post. What exactly is dishonest or lacks integrity with these IGGs? What classifies these as a 'racket'? Do you call all of the extremely late Anti-CG Kickstarters Scams or Rackets?

It is dishonest for CG's bigwigs to pretend that they still care about the quality of the comics they denigrate. They only care about fostering resentment so that CG has a reason to exist, and along the way, they use these people to sell their own comics. But the sales are based on "owning the libs" moreso than people saying "I'm excited for these books."

Where is any dishonesty or lack of integrity in what Richard Meyer or Ethan Daniel Van Sciver doing?

See above.

 

[damian]

I only felt like calling out Ethan (as CG's spokesman) on his bullshit. And as you saw, he had no answer for me. So, QED.

Didn't you keep derailing that "debate" to sperg out about Vox Day? If your problem is with VD, why not take it up with him?

 

[Death Ray]

That's not a racket, that's finding an audience. No different than Anti-CG jerking off the SJW crowd -- if you could actually get them to buy your comics instead of them getting from scan-sites.

And that's what CG is doing, by the way, they don't like Marvel so they stopped buying from Marvel. What happened was there was people seeing a demand and they wished to be the supplier. That's business. You find a need or want and you fill it. Just because the Big Two are dumb enough to ignore the whales doesn't make what Meyer and Sciver are doing immoral. It's what DC should be doing to Marvel, being a competitor. If anything is a racket it's those two considering how they force comic shops to buy a certain amount of X - which sells poorly - so they can get the the Y - which can be trusted to sell.

Comic shops do not have to order anything they don't want. Perhaps they must purchase a certain quantity of a standard cover to get a variant cover, but I don't think that's what you are talking about.

Sure, El Jefe and D&C have found an audience, and it is an audience moved by politics, which, of course, completely contradicts what CG alleges to stand for. And that's the racket.

Didn't you keep derailing that "debate" to sperg out about Vox Day? If your problem is with VD, why not take it up with him?

The alt-right (meaning Vox) was one of our agreed upon debate topics, so no, I did not discuss VD any more or less than Ethan should have expected. And as you saw, I was able to connect Vox to Ethan at every turn. Ethan could only chuckle nervously about this, but he had no real response.

 

[Least Concern]

It is dishonest for CG's bigwigs to pretend that they still care about the quality of the comics they denigrate. They only care about fostering resentment so that CG has a reason to exist, and along the way, they use these people to sell their own comics. But the sales are based on "owning the libs" moreso than people saying "I'm excited for these books."

Van Sciver, at least, has said many times, including during your debate with him, that he's not really interested in saving the mainstream comics industry. He's perfectly content to just do his own thing instead and live the rest of his life outside the industry.

That said, I won't disagree that there's a certain element of "owning the libs" to all of this, but that's not going to last very long - eventually the customers who are only in it for that reason will find something else to do. Time will tell if we'll still be seeing "six figures, young lady" IndieGoGos from these folks in a year or so.

ETA:

The alt-right (meaning Vox) was one of our agreed upon debate topics, so no, I did not discuss VD any more or less than Ethan should have expected. And as you saw, I was able to connect Vox to Ethan at every turn. Ethan could only chuckle nervously about this, but he had no real response.

How much more does Van Sciver have to disavow Vox Day before you will be satisfied that he sincerely doesn't want to have anything to do with him? He was threatening a lawsuit, for crissake.

 

[damian]

it is an audience moved by politics

That want...apolitical books? So weird. Please explain the politics of and how 'ex-superheroes fighting a giant ape' is "owning the libs".

 

[SiccDicc]

Comic shops do not have to order anything they don't want. Perhaps they must purchase a certain quantity of a standard cover to get a variant cover, but I don't think that's what you are talking about.

Sure, El Jefe and D&C have found an audience, and it is an audience moved by politics, which, of course, completely contradicts what CG alleges to stand for. And that's the racket.

I've seen comic stores shut down and explain that they have to because Marvel forces them to buy Iceman in order to sell Iron Man. They don't have the money for both, let alone the one that can't even be given away on Free Comics Day.

And isn't your side the one that says everything is political? Or that comics have always been political? Why the sudden problem now? Where are the politics in Meyer's stories by the way? I haven't seen any, I see a man with passion -- if lack of experience in storytelling. I haven't seen any real politics in his work, hell his own streams have no politics except making fun of shit works. You can separate a man's opinions from his work so long as he doesn't beat his work to death with said opinions, that's the entire point of CG. It's not the politics but the lack of subtlety to them.

 

[damian]

The alt-right (meaning Vox) was one of our agreed upon debate topics, so no, I did not discuss VD any more or less than Ethan should have expected. And as you saw, I was able to connect Vox to Ethan at every turn. Ethan could only chuckle nervously about this, but he had no real response.

"He has your phone number" isn't being able to "connect Vox to Ethan at every turn". He was laughing at you for grasping at straws. Do you anything more concrete than that?

 

[Death Ray]

That want...apolitical books? So weird. Please explain the politics of and how 'ex-superheroes fighting a giant ape' is "owning the libs".

But of course, he SELLS his book exclusively through his political rantings.

How much more does Van Sciver have to disavow Vox Day before you will be satisfied that he sincerely doesn't want to have anything to do with him? He was threatening a lawsuit, for crissake.

If you are familiar at all with Ethan's relationship with Vox, you know that they have been frenemies longer than they have been enemies. And Ethan's adoration for Vox's political writings speaks for itself.

 

[SiccDicc]

But of course, he SELLS his book exclusively through his political rantings.

Today I learned insulting comics is a political statement and a platform for the Republican party.

 

[Death Ray]

I've seen comic stores shut down and explain that they have to because Marvel forces them to buy Iceman in order to sell Iron Man. They don't have the money for both, let alone the one that can't even be given away on Free Comics Day.

I don't believe this is true. Sorry. I will ask my local shop about these kind of arrangements, though. To be continued.

And isn't your side the one that says everything is political? Or that comics have always been political? Why the sudden problem now?

I don't speak for those people, nor they for me.

 

[damian]

But of course, he SELLS his book exclusively through his political rantings.

Ah the politics of 'female looks mannish and has A-cup breasts', brilliant political commentary.

 

[SiccDicc]

I don't speak for those people, nor they for me.

But Vox clearly speaks for Sciver?

 

[Death Ray]

Today I learned insulting comics is a political statement and a platform for the Republican party.

But he insults his political enemies, these "SJWs", more frequently than he insults bad comic books, doesn't he? And that is what people tune in for: his "culture war".

But Vox clearly speaks for Sciver?

Never said he did.

 

[SiccDicc]

But he insults his politial enemies, these "SJWs", more frequently than he insults bad comic books, doesn't he? And that is waht people tune in for: his "culture war".

Actually the videos I've seen focuses on the book. He talks about the author if he's getting a feel for the kind of person they are through their works, example: "This is written like it's from some mom who's desperately trying to be young again."

If that's political, I'm not sure how. He also doesn't really have enemies, he laughs at most of them and mocks the dumb shit they do. Like we do. Do we have political enemies? Other than the penguins, we don't talk about their kind here.

Never said he did.

So then why can't you accept Sciver disavowed him? Why then would it matter what Vox says after Sciver told you he doesn't like him?

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

A Kickstarter, by definition, is a leap of faith.

No it isn't. It's a crowdfunded project. The maker of the Kickstarter has a moral, ethical, and legal obligation to provide his crowdfunded project.

The "racket" is simply that CG citizens are being milked for their rage dollars, but CG itself is simply running on its own inertia. So you don't like Marvel? So what? Don't buy 'em. Nothing CG stands for is "moving the needle" one bit.

CG is against the excess politicization of politics. The pros told them to go make their own comics if they're so "mad" about it. So they did.

But CG knows this. I only felt like calling out Ethan (as CG's spokesman) on his bullshit. And as you saw, he had no answer for me. So, QED.

Funny that. Because all you did was intellectually shadowbox Vox Day and try to play a guilt by association game with EVS concerning him.

And ComicsGate has no "spokesmen". Just proponents more vocal than others.

It is dishonest for CG's bigwigs to pretend that they still care about the quality of the comics they denigrate. They only care about fostering resentment so that CG has a reason to exist, and along the way, they use these people to sell their own comics. But the sales are based on "owning the libs" moreso than people saying "I'm excited for these books."

From all accounts, ComicsGate books are as apolitical as can be.

Anti-ComicsGate, however...

Comic shops do not have to order anything they don't want. Perhaps they must purchase a certain quantity of a standard cover to get a variant cover, but I don't think that's what you are talking about.

Which is why Marvel always gives comic shops more than they actually did order, to inflate sales data to make the company look like it's doing better than it really is.

Sure, El Jefe and D&C have found an audience, and it is an audience moved by politics, which, of course, completely contradicts what CG alleges to stand for. And that's the racket.

No. They tune in to watch people trash shitty overpoliticized comics and make good apolitical ones.

The alt-right (meaning Vox) was one of our agreed upon debate topics, so no, I did not discuss VD any more or less than Ethan should have expected. And as you saw, I was able to connect Vox to Ethan at every turn. Ethan could only chuckle nervously about this, but he had no real response.

No you didn't. You made tenuous associations at best, non-sequiturs at worst. EVS laughed (if he even did that) because you sounded like a fool.

 

[Least Concern]

If you are familiar at all with Ethan's relationship with Vox, you know that they have been frenemies longer than they have been enemies. And Ethan's adoration for Vox's political writings speaks for itself.

Van Sciver clearly sees himself as almost duty-bound to help up-and-coming creators, as seen by how he constantly features such people on his show and did those portfolio reviews before that. The impression I got was that he was treating Vox the same way; helping him on a professional level. I don't think he would have considered Vox a friend. Certainly, once Vox pissed him off, Van Sciver was more than willing to burn the professional bridge.

I'll ask again; what does Van Sciver have to do to satisfy you that he's not besties with Vox? Should he be dishonest and disavow the parts of Vox's writings that he actually found useful?