Jesus is not the Messiah, change my mind

[EyeGuy]

I've been listening to a lot of apologists recently and I want to hear Christian Kiwis' best arguments. I'll state upfront that I'm not really interested in the historicity of the resurrection (although of course I can't a priori rule that out if someone thinks that it's a good argument); my main issue with Christianity is that I just don't see how it squares with the teaching of the OT. The concept of the Messiah is completely different; the emphasis on belief (as opposed to observance of the Law) as being necessary for salvation is totally foreign, as is the necessity of salvation (from hellfire) itself.

 

[cantankerous jackalope]

I kind of follow more of a Neville Goddard style approach to Christianity, but I always thought that it would be a cool plot twist from a storytelling point of view.

Or something like how if Jesus did come back in 2023, Revalations was (re)written in such a way by the corrupt church that people would assume Jesus was the Antichrist and kill him again.

 

[EyeGuy]

I'm not about to guess which essential doctrines you think are missing and go from there, so I can't really help. I personally don't see any glaring or obvious errors.

I accidentally posted the thread before I finished the OP; I'm editing it now with more information.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

What the fuck is different about the OT Messiah and Jesus?

 

[EyeGuy]

What the fuck is different about the OT Messiah and Jesus?

The OT messiah is a mortal ruler over a restored, temporal kingdom of Israel. The clearest exposition of this is in Ezekiel: His Davidic ruler can't enter the inner courtyard of the rebuilt Temple because he isn't a priest (46:2), and he will die and be succeeded by his children (46:16).

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

The OT messiah is a mortal ruler over a restored, temporal kingdom of Israel. He doesn't forgive sins, and he certainly isn't God. The clearest exposition of this is in Ezekiel: His Davidic ruler is as mortal as you can get. He can't enter the inner courtyard of the rebuilt Temple because he isn't a priest (46:2), and he will die and be succeeded by his children (42:16).

lol

Ezekiel 46:2​

The prince is to enter from the outside through the portico of the gateway and stand by the gatepost. The priests are to sacrifice his burnt offering and his fellowship offerings. He is to bow down in worship at the threshold of the gateway and then go out, but the gate will not be shut until evening.

This is rules for the establishment.

Ezekiel 42:16​

He measured the east side with the measuring rod; it was five hundred cubits.

This is literally a part of a blueprint dream.


This shit is no way near to do anything with the Messiah.
What kind of bullshit peddling bullshiter are you?

 

[rel=alternate]

Is this again a religious question from a furry? If so I'd be interested in some kind of ignore bot.

Your poll is missing skizos. Ever visited a nut house? You'll meet more sons of god than you can ever dream of.

 

[Shidoen]

Jesus is king because he was ordained by God himself as his son.

 

[EyeGuy]

This shit is no way near to do anything with the Messiah.
What kind of bullshit peddling bullshiter are you?

It's a typo - should be 46:16. It won't kill you to assume I'm arguing in good faith, you know:

“‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: If the prince makes a gift from his inheritance to one of his sons, it will also belong to his descendants; it is to be their property by inheritance. 17 If, however, he makes a gift from his inheritance to one of his servants, the servant may keep it until the year of freedom; then it will revert to the prince. His inheritance belongs to his sons only; it is theirs. 18 The prince must not take any of the inheritance of the people, driving them off their property. He is to give his sons their inheritance out of his own property, so that not one of my people will be separated from their property.’”

I think that if Ezekiel talks about the ruler of the restored Israel not being allowed to access all of God's house, and sees him as dying and leaving the throne to his children, then yes, I think that has a lot to do with how we should perceive the Messiah.

 

[skykiii]

Is this again a religious question from a furry? If so I'd be interested in some kind of ignore bot.

Your poll is missing skizos. Ever visited a nut house? You'll meet more sons of god than you can ever dream of.

I mean, if God created humanity then aren't we all technically "sons/daughters of God?"

 

[The Feline Solution]

Most jewish thread on the Farms right now.

 

[Butterschmalz]

If you dont believe that Jesus is the messiah then you belong to the long nose tribe. And that usually means everlasting fire the the pitchfork with no lube.

 

[Blobby's Murder Knife]

God was fed up with Israel's constant nonsense. You can read it in what Jesus said in the NT about Jews at the time. I think he literally was trolling them sending Jesus to some extent as they all expected some worldly warrior that would fight for them regardless. All Jesus/God wanted was people who would follow his law and accept what God told Abraham, that blood sacrifice was not going to work ultimately in the way they thought.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

It's a typo - should be 46:16. It won't kill you to assume I'm arguing in good faith, you know:

I think that if Ezekiel talks about the ruler of the restored Israel not being allowed to access all of God's house, and sees him as dying and leaving the throne to his children, then yes, I think that has a lot to do with how we should perceive the Messiah.

What the fuck is wrong with you?
How the fuck do you correlate to a specific branch of royalty with the Messiah?
I came here for a fucking theological beef, I expected some real nigga shit like Rashi or Nestorius.
Instead I get some dyslexic retard who can't read or write.

Lay off the weed and read about context and shit. Maybe get a dictionary.

 

[Esau]

Maybe Luther was right about the Jews

 

[Rainbow Child]

Prophecy​	Description​	Fulfillment​
1. Gen 3:15	Seed of a woman (virgin birth)	Gal 4:4-5; Matt 1:18
2. Gen 3:15	He will bruise Satan’s head	Heb 2:14; 1 John 3:8
3. Gen 5:24	The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated	Mark 16:19
4. Gen 9:26-27	The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem	Luke 3:36
5. Gen 12:3	Seed of Abraham will bless all nations	Gal 3:8; Acts 3:25-26
6. Gen 12:7	The Promise made to Abraham’s Seed	Gal 3:16
7. Gen 14:18	A priest after the order of Melchizedek	Heb 6:20
8. Gen 14:18	King of Peace and Righteousness	Heb 7:2
9. Gen 14:18	The Last Supper foreshadowed	Matt 26:26-29

10. Gen 17:19	Seed of Isaac (Gen 21:12)	Rom 9:7
11. Gen 22:8	The Lamb of God promised	John 1:29
12. Gen 22:18	As Isaac’s seed, will bless all nations	Gal 3:16
13. Gen 26:2-5	The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer	Heb 11:18
14. Gen 28:12	The Bridge to heaven	John 1:51
15. Gen 28:14	The Seed of Jacob	Luke 3:34
16. Gen 49:10	The time of His coming	Luke 2:1-7; Gal 4:4
17. Gen 49:10	The Seed of Judah	Luke 3:33
18. Gen 49:10	Called Shiloh or One Sent	John 17:3
19. Gen 49:10	Messiah to come before Judah lost identity	John 11:47-52

20. Gen 49:10	Unto Him shall the obedience of the people be	John 10:16
21. Ex 3:13-15	The Great “I AM”	John 4:26; 8:58
22. Ex 12:5	A Lamb without blemish	Heb 9:14; 1 Pet 1:19
23. Ex 12:13	The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath	Rom 5:8
24. Ex 12:21-27	Christ is our Passover	1 Cor 5:7
25. Ex 12:46	Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken	John 19:31-36
26. Ex 15:2	His exaltation predicted as Yeshua	Acts 7:55-56
27. Ex 15:11	His Character-Holiness	Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
28. Ex 17:6	The Spiritual Rock of Israel	1 Cor 10:4
29. Ex 33:19	His Character-Merciful	Luke 1:72

30. Lev 1:2-9	His sacrifice a sweet smelling savor unto God	Eph 5:2
31. Lev 14:11	The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood	Luke 5:12-14; Acts 6:7
32. Lev 16:15-17	Prefigures Christ’s once-for-all death	Heb 9:7-14
33. Lev 16:27	Suffering outside the Camp	Matt 27:33; Heb. 13:11-12
34. Lev 17:11	The Blood-the life of the flesh	Matt 26:28; Mark 10:45
35. Lev 17:11	It is the blood that makes atonement	Rom. 3:23-24; 1 John 1:7
36. Lev 23:36-37	The Drink-offering: “If any man thirst”	John 7:37
37. Num 9:12	Not a bone of Him broken	John 19:31-36
38. Num 21:9	The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up	John 3:14-18; 12:32
39. Num 24:17	Time: “I shall see him, but not now.”	John 1:14; Gal 4:4

40. Deut 18:15	“This is of a truth that prophet”	John 6:14
41. Deut 18:15-16	“Had you believed Moses, you would believe me.”	John 5:45-47
42. Deut 18:18	Sent by the Father to speak His word	John 8:28-29
43. Deut 18:19	Whoever will not hear must bear his sin	Acts 3:22-23
44. Deut 21:23	Cursed is he that hangs on a tree	Gal 3:10-13
45. Joshua 5:14-15	The Captain of our salvation	Heb 2:10
46. Ruth 4:4-10	Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us	Eph 1:3-7
47. 1 Sam 2:35	A Faithful Priest	Heb. 2:17; 3:1-3, 6; 7:24-25
48. 1 Sam 2:10	Shall be an anointed King to the Lord	Matt 28:18; John 12:15
49. 2 Sam 7:12	David’s Seed	Matt 1:1

50. 2 Sam 7:13	His Kingdom is everlasting	2 Pet 1:11
51. 2 Sam 7:14a	The Son of God	Luke 1:32; Rom 1:3-4
52. 2 Sam 7:16	David’s house established forever	Luke 3:31; Rev 22:16
53. 2 Ki 2:11	The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated	Luke 24:51
54. 1 Chr 17:11	David’s Seed	Matt 1:1; 9:27
55. 1 Chr 17:12-13	To reign on David’s throne forever	Luke 1:32-33
56. 1 Chr 17:13	“I will be His Father, He…my Son.”	Heb 1:5
57. Job 9:32-33	Mediator between man and God	1 Tim 2:5
58. Job 19:23-27	The Resurrection predicted	John 5:24-29
59. Psa 2:1-3	The enmity of kings foreordained	Acts 4:25-28

60. Psa 2:2	To own the title, Anointed (Christ)	John 1:41; Acts 2:36
61. Psa 2:6	His Character-Holiness	John 8:46; Rev 3:7
62. Psa 2:6	To own the title King	Matt 2:2
63. Psa 2:7	Declared the Beloved Son	Matt 3:17; Rom 1:4
64. Psa 2:7-8	The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated	Acts 13:29-33
65. Psa 2:8-9	Rule the nations with a rod of iron	Rev 2:27; 12:5; 19:15
66. Psa 2:12	Life comes through faith in Him	John 20:31
67. Psa 8:2	The mouths of babes perfect His praise	Matt 21:16
68. Psa 8:5-6	His humiliation and exaltation	Heb 2:5-9
69. Psa 9:7-10	Judge the world in righteousness	Acts 17:31

70. Psa 16:10	Was not to see corruption	Acts 2:31; 13:35
71. Psa 16:9-11	Was to arise from the dead	John 20:9
72. Psa 17:15	The resurrection predicted	Luke 24:6
73. Psa 18:2-3	The horn of salvation	Luke 1:69-71
74. Psa 22:1	Forsaken because of sins of others	2 Cor 5:21
75. Psa 22:1	“My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?”	Matt 27:46
76. Psa 22:2	Darkness upon Calvary for three hours	Matt 27:45
77. Psa 22:7	They shoot out the lip and shake the head	Matt 27:39-44
78. Psa 22:8	“He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him”	Matt 27:43
79. Psa 22:9-10	Born the Savior	Luke 2:7

80. Psa 22:12-13	They seek His death	John 19:6
81. Psa 22:14	His blood poured out when they pierced His side	John 19:34
82. Psa 22:14-15	Suffered agony on Calvary	Mark 15:34-37
83. Psa 22:15	He thirsted	John 19:28
84. Psa 22:16	They pierced His hands and His feet	John 19:34-37; 20:27
85. Psa 22:17-18	Stripped Him before the stares of men	Luke 23:34-35
86. Psa 22:18	They parted His garments	John 19:23-24
87. Psa 22:20-21	He committed Himself to God	Luke 23:46
88. Psa 22:20-21	Satanic power bruising the Redeemer’s heel	Heb 2:14
89. Psa 22:22	His Resurrection declared	John 20:17

90. Psa 22:27-28	He shall be the governor of the nations	Col 1:16
91. Psa 22:31	“It is finished”	John 19:30; Heb 10:10-12, 14, 18
92. Psa 23:1	“I am the Good Shepherd”	John 10:11; 1 Pet 2:25
93. Psa 24:3	His exaltation predicted	Acts 1:11; Phil 2:9
94. Psa 30:3	His resurrection predicted	Acts 2:32
95. Psa 31:5	“Into Your hands I commit my spirit”	Luke 23:46
96. Psa 31:11	His acquaintances fled from Him	Mark 14:50
97. Psa 31:13	They took counsel to put Him to death	Matt 27:1; John 11:53
98. Psa 31:14-15	“He trusted in God, let Him deliver him”	Matt 27:43
99. Psa 34:20	Not a bone of Him broken	John 19:31-36

100. Psa 35:11	False witnesses rose up against Him	Matt 26:59
101. Psa 35:19	He was hated without a cause	John 15:25
102. Psa 38:11	His friends stood afar off	Luke 23:49
103. Psa 38:12	Enemies try to entangle Him by craft	Mark 14:1; Matt 22:15
104. Psa 38:12-13	Silent before His accusers	Matt 27:12-14
105. Psa 38:20	He went about doing good	Acts 10:38
106. Psa 40:2-5	The joy of His resurrection predicted	John 20:20
107. Psa 40:6-8	His delight-the will of the Father	John 4:34; Heb 10:5-10
108. Psa 40:9	He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel	Matt 4:17
109. Psa 40:14	Confronted by adversaries in the Garden	John 18:4-6

110. Psa 41:9	Betrayed by a familiar friend	John 13:18
111. Psa 45:2	Words of Grace come from His lips	John 1:17; Luke 4:22
112. Psa 45:6	To own the title, God or Elohim	Heb 1:8
113. Psa 45:7	A special anointing by the Holy Spirit	Matt 3:16; Heb. 1:9
114. Psa 45:7-8	Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)	Luke 2:11
115. Psa 45:17	His name remembered forever	Eph 1:20-21; Heb. 1:8
116. Psa 55:12-14	Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy	John 13:18
117. Psa 55:15	Unrepentant death of the Betrayer	Matt 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
118. Psa 68:18	To give gifts to men	Eph 4:7-16
119. Psa 68:18	Ascended into Heaven	Luke 24:51

120. Psa 69:4	Hated without a cause	John 15:25
121. Psa 69:8	A stranger to own brethren	John 1:11; 7:5
122. Psa 69:9	Zealous for the Lord’s House	John 2:17
123. Psa 69:14-20	Messiah’s anguish of soul before crucifixion	Matt 26:36-45
124. Psa 69:20	“My soul is exceeding sorrowful”	Matt 26:38
125. Psa 69:21	Given vinegar in thirst	Matt 27:34
126. Psa 69:26	The Savior given and smitten by God	John 17:4; 18:11
127. Psa 72:10-11	Great persons were to visit Him	Matt 2:1-11
128. Psa 72:16	The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground	John 12:24-25
129. Psa 72:17	Belief on His name will produce offspring	John 1:12-13

130. Psa 72:17	All nations shall be blessed by Him	Gal 3:8
131. Psa 72:17	All nations shall call Him blessed	John 12:13; Rev 5:8-12
132. Psa 78:1-2	He would teach in parables	Matt 13:34-35
133. Psa 78:2b	To speak the Wisdom of God with authority	Matt 7:29
134. Psa 80:17	The Man of God’s right hand	Mark 14:61-62
135. Psa 88	The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary	Matt 27:26-50
136. Psa 88:8	They stood afar off and watched	Luke 23:49
137. Psa 89:27	Firstborn	Col 1:15-18
138. Psa 89:27	Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings	Luke 1:32-33
139. Psa 89:35-37	David’s Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever	Luke 1:32-33

140. Psa 89:36-37	His character-Faithfulness	Rev 1:5; 19:11
141. Psa 90:2	He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)	John 1:1
142. Psa 91:11-12	Identified as Messianic, used to tempt Christ	Luke 4:10-11
143. Psa 97:9	His exaltation predicted	Acts 1:11; Eph 1:20
144. Psa 100:5	His character-Goodness	Matt 19:16-17
145. Psa 102:1-11	The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary	John 19:16-30
146. Psa 102:25-27	Messiah is the Preexistent Son	Heb 1:10-12
147. Psa 109:25	Ridiculed	Matt 27:39
148. Psa 110:1	Son of David	Matt 22:42-43
149. Psa 110:1	To ascend to the right-hand of the Father	Mark 16:19

150. Psa 110:1	David’s son called Lord	Matt 22:44-45
151. Psa 110:4	A priest after Melchizedek’s order	Heb 6:20
152. Psa 112:4	His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al	Matt 9:36
153. Psa 118:17-18	Messiah’s Resurrection assured	Luke 24:5-7; 1 Cor 15:20
154. Psa 118:22-23	The rejected stone is Head of the corner	Matt 21:42-43
155. Psa 118:26a	The Blessed One presented to Israel	Matt 21:9
156. Psa 118:26b	To come while Temple standing	Matt 21:12-15
157. Psa 132:11	The Seed of David (the fruit of His Body)	Luke 1:32; Act 2:30
158. Psa 129:3	He was scourged	Matt 27:26
159. Psa 138:1-6	The supremacy of David’s Seed amazes kings	Matt 2:2-6

160. Psa 147:3-6	The earthly ministry of Christ described	Luke 4:18
161. Prov 1:23	He will send the Spirit of God	John 16:7
162. Prov 8:23	Foreordained from everlasting	Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:19-20
163. Song 5:16	The altogether lovely One	John 1:17
164. Isa 2:3	He shall teach all nations	John 4:25
165. Isa 2:4	He shall judge among the nations	John 5:22
166. Isa 6:1	When Isaiah saw His glory	John 12:40-41
167. Isa 6:8	The One Sent by God	John 12:38-45
168. Isa 6:9-10	Parables fall on deaf ears	Matt 13:13-15
169. Isa 6:9-12	Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words	Acts 28:23-29

170. Isa 7:14	To be born of a virgin	Luke 1:35
171. Isa 7:14	To be Emmanuel-God with us	Matt 1:18-23; 1 Tim 3:16
172. Isa 8:8	Called Emmanuel	Matt 28:20
173. Isa 8:14	A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense	1 Pet 2:8
174. Isa 9:1-2	His ministry to begin in Galilee	Matt 4:12-17
175. Isa 9:6	A child born-Humanity	Luke 1:31
176. Isa 9:6	A Son given-Deity	Luke 1:32; John 1:14; 1 Tim 3:16
177. Isa 9:6	Declared to be the Son of God with power	Rom 1:3-4
178. Isa 9:6	The Wonderful One, Peleh	Luke 4:22
179. Isa 9:6	The Counselor, Yaatz	Matt 13:54

180. Isa 9:6	The Mighty God, El Gibor	1 Cor 1:24; Titus 2:3
181. Isa 9:6	The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth	John 8:58; 10:30
182. Isa 9:6	The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom	John 16:33
183. Isa 9:7	To establish an everlasting kingdom	Luke 1:32-33
184. Isa 9:7	His Character-Just	John 5:30
185. Isa 9:7	No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace	Luke 1:32-33
186. Isa 11:1	Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer	Matt 2:23
187. Isa 11:1	A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse	Luke 3:23-32
188. Isa 11:2	Anointed One by the Spirit	Matt 3:16-17; Acts 10:38
189. Isa 11:2	His Character-Wisdom, Knowledge, et al	Col 2:3

190. Isa 11:3	He would know their thoughts	Luke 6:8; John 2:25
191. Isa 11:4	Judge in righteousness	Acts 17:31
192. Isa 11:4	Judges with the sword of His mouth	Rev 2:16; 19:11, 15
193. Isa 11:5	Character: Righteous & Faithful	Rev 19:11
194. Isa 11:10	The Gentiles seek Him	John 12:18-21
195. Isa 12:2	Called Jesus-Yeshua	Matt 1:21
196. Isa 22:22	The One given all authority to govern	Rev 3:7
197. Isa 25:8	The Resurrection predicted	1 Cor 15:54
198. Isa 26:19	His power of Resurrection predicted	Matt 27:50-54
199. Isa 28:16	The Messiah is the precious corner stone	Acts 4:11-12

200. Isa 28:16	The Sure Foundation	1 Cor 3:11; Matt 16:18
201. Isa 29:13	He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word	Matt 15:7-9
202. Isa 29:14	The wise are confounded by the Word	1 Cor 1:18-31
203. Isa 32:2	A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place	Matt 23:37
204. Isa 35:4	He will come and save you	Matt 1:21
205. Isa 35:5-6	To have a ministry of miracles	Matt 11:2-6
206. Isa 40:3-4	Preceded by forerunner	John 1:23
207. Isa 40:9	“Behold your God”	John 1:36; 19:14
208. Isa 40:10	He will come to reward	Rev 22:12
209. Isa 40:11	A shepherd-compassionate life-giver	John 10:10-18

210. Isa 42:1-4	The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer	Matt 12:18-21
211. Isa 42:2	Meek and lowly	Matt 11:28-30
212. Isa 42:3	He brings hope for the hopeless	John 4
213. Isa 42:4	The nations shall wait on His teachings	John 12:20-26
214. Isa 42:6	The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles	Luke 2:32
215. Isa 42:1-6	His is a worldwide compassion	Matt 28:19-20
216. Isa 42:7	Blind eyes opened	John 9:25-38
217. Isa 43:11	He is the only Savior	Acts 4:12
218. Isa 44:3	He will send the Spirit of God	John 16:7-13
219. Isa 45:21-25	He is Lord and Savior	Phil 3:20; Titus 2:13

220. Isa 45:23	He will be the Judge	John 5:22; Rom 14:11
221. Isa 46:9-10	Declares things not yet done	John 13:19
222. Isa 48:12	The First and the Last	John 1:30; Rev 1:8, 17
223. Isa 48:16-17	He came as a Teacher	John 3:2
224. Isa 49:1	Called from the womb-His humanity	Matt 1:18
225. Isa 49:5	A Servant from the womb	Luke 1:31; Phil 2:7
226. Isa 49:6	He will restore Israel	Acts 3:19-21; 15:16-17
227. Isa 49:6	He is Salvation for Israel	Luke 2:29-32
228. Isa 49:6	He is the Light of the Gentiles	John 8:12; Acts 13:47
229. Isa 49:6	He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth	Acts 15:7-18

230. Isa 49:7	He is despised of the Nation	John 1:11; 8:48-49; 19:14-15
231. Isa 50:3	Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation	Luke 23:44-45
232. Isa 50:4	He is a learned counselor for the weary	Matt 7:29; 11:28-29
233. Isa 50:5	The Servant bound willingly to obedience	Matt 26:39
234. Isa 50:6a	“I gave my back to those who struck Me”	Matt 27:26
235. Isa 50:6b	He was smitten on the cheeks	Matt 26:67
236. Isa 50:6c	He was spat upon	Matt 27:30
237. Isa 52:7	Published good tidings upon mountains	Matt 5:12; 15:29; 28:16
238. Isa 52:13	The Servant exalted	Acts 1:8-11; Eph 1:19-22; Phil 2:5-9
239. Isa 52:14	The Servant shockingly abused	Luke 18:31-34; Matt 26:67-68

240. Isa 52:15	Nations startled by message of the Servant	Luke 18:31-34; Matt 26:67-68
241. Isa 52:15	His blood shed sprinkles nations	Heb 9:13-14; Rev 1:5
242. Isa 53:1	His people would not believe Him	John 12:37-38
243. Isa 53:2	Appearance of an ordinary man	Phil 2:6-8
244. Isa 53:3a	Despised	Luke 4:28-29
245. Isa 53:3b	Rejected	Matt 27:21-23
246. Isa 53:3c	Great sorrow and grief	Matt 26:37-38; Luke 19:41; Heb 4:15
247. Isa 53:3d	Men hide from being associated with Him	Mark 14:50-52
248. Isa 53:4a	He would have a healing ministry	Matt 8:16-17
249. Isa 53:4b	Thought to be cursed by God	Matt 26:66; 27:41-43

250. Isa 53:5a	Bears penalty for mankind’s iniquities	2 Cor 5:21; Heb 2:9
251. Isa 53:5b	His sacrifice provides peace between man and God	Col 1:20
252. Isa 53:5c	His sacrifice would heal man of sin	1 Pet 2:24
253. Isa 53:6a	He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind	1 John 2:2; 4:10
254. Isa 53:6b	God’s will that He bear sin for all mankind	Gal 1:4
255. Isa 53:7a	Oppressed and afflicted	Matt 27:27-31
256. Isa 53:7b	Silent before his accusers	Matt 27:12-14
257. Isa 53:7c	Sacrificial lamb	John 1:29; 1 Pet 1:18-19
258. Isa 53:8a	Confined and persecuted	Matt 26:47-27:31
259. Isa 53:8b	He would be judged	John 18:13-22

260. Isa 53:8c	Killed	Matt 27:35
261. Isa 53:8d	Dies for the sins of the world	1 John 2:2
262. Isa 53:9a	Buried in a rich man’s grave	Matt 27:57
263. Isa 53:9b	Innocent and had done no violence	Luke 23:41; John 18:38
264. Isa 53:9c	No deceit in his mouth	1 Pet 2:22
265. Isa 53:10a	God’s will that He die for mankind	John 18:11
266. Isa 53:10b	An offering for sin	Matt 20:28; Gal 3:13
267. Isa 53:10c	Resurrected and live forever	Rom 6:9
268. Isa 53:10d	He would prosper	John 17:1-5
269. Isa 53:11a	God fully satisfied with His suffering	John 12:27

270. Isa 53:11b	God’s servant would justify man	Rom 5:8-9, 18-19
271. Isa 53:11c	The sin-bearer for all mankind	Heb 9:28
272. Isa 53:12a	Exalted by God because of his sacrifice	Matt 28:18
273. Isa 53:12b	He would give up his life to save mankind	Luke 23:46
274. Isa 53:12c	Numbered with the transgressors	Mark 15:27-28
275. Isa 53:12d	Sin-bearer for all mankind	1 Pet 2:24
276. Isa 53:12e	Intercede to God in behalf of mankind	Luke 23:34; Rom 8:34
277. Isa 55:3	Resurrected by God	Acts 13:34
278. Isa 55:4a	A witness	John 18:37
279. Isa 55:4b	He is a leader and commander	Heb 2:10

280. Isa 55:5	God would glorify Him	Acts 3:13
281. Isa 59:16a	Intercessor between man and God	Matt 10:32
282. Isa 59:16b	He would come to provide salvation	John 6:40
283. Isa 59:20	He would come to Zion as their Redeemer	Luke 2:38
284. Isa 60:1-3	He would show light to the Gentiles	Acts 26:23
285. Isa 61:1a	The Spirit of God upon him	Matt 3:16-17
286. Isa 61:1b	The Messiah would preach the good news	Luke 4:16-21
287. Isa 61:1c	Provide freedom from the bondage of sin	John 8:31-36
288. Isa 61:1-2a	Proclaim a period of grace	Gal 4:4-5
289. Jer 23:5-6	Descendant of David	Luke 3:23-31

290. Jer 23:5-6	The Messiah would be both God and Man	John 13:13; 1 Tim 3:16
291. Jer 31:22	Born of a virgin	Matt 1:18-20
292. Jer 31:31	The Messiah would be the new covenant	Matt 26:28
293. Jer 33:14-15	Descendant of David	Luke 3:23-31
294. Ezek 34:23-24	Descendant of David	Matt 1:1
295. Ezek 37:24-25	Descendant of David	Luke 1:31-33
296. Dan 2:44-45	The Stone that shall break the kingdoms	Matt 21:44
297. Dan 7:13-14a	He would ascend into heaven	Acts 1:9-11
298. Dan 7:13-14b	Highly exalted	Eph 1:20-22
299. Dan 7:13-14c	His dominion would be everlasting	Luke 1:31-33

300. Dan 9:24a	To make an end to sins	Gal 1:3-5
301. Dan 9:24a	To make reconciliation for iniquity	Rom 5:10; 2 Cor 5:18-21
302. Dan 9:24b	He would be holy	Luke 1:35
303. Dan 9:25	His announcement	John 12:12-13
304. Dan 9:26a	Cut off	Matt 16:21; 21:38-39
305. Dan 9:26b	Die for the sins of the world	Heb 2:9
306. Dan 9:26c	Killed before the destruction of the temple	Matt 27:50-51
307. Dan 10:5-6	Messiah in a glorified state	Rev 1:13-16
308. Hos 11:1	He would be called out of Egypt	Matt 2:15
309. Hos 13:14	He would defeat death	1 Cor 15:55-57

310. Joel 2:32	Offer salvation to all mankind	Rom 10:9-13
311. Jonah 1:17	Death and resurrection of Christ	Matt 12:40; 16:4
312. Mic 5:2a	Born in Bethlehem	Matt 2:1-6
313. Mic 5:2b	Ruler in Israel	Luke 1:33
314. Mic 5:2c	From everlasting	John 8:58
315. Hag 2:6-9	He would visit the second Temple	Luke 2:27-32
316. Hag 2:23	Descendant of Zerubbabel	Luke 2:27-32
317. Zech 3:8	God’s servant	John 17:4
318. Zech 6:12-13	Priest and King	Heb 8:1
319. Zech 9:9a	Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem	Matt 21:8-10

320. Zech 9:9b	Beheld as King	John 12:12-13
321. Zech 9:9c	The Messiah would be just	John 5:30
322. Zech 9:9d	The Messiah would bring salvation	Luke 19:10
323. Zech 9:9e	The Messiah would be humble	Matt 11:29
324. Zech 9:9f	Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey	Matt 21:6-9
325. Zech 10:4	The cornerstone	Eph 2:20
326. Zech 11:4-6a	At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders	Matt 23:1-4
327. Zech 11:4-6b	Rejection causes God to remove His protection	Luke 19:41-44
328. Zech 11:4-6c	Rejected in favor of another king	John 19:13-15
329. Zech 11:7	Ministry to “poor,” the believing remnant	Matt 9:35-36

330. Zech 11:8a	Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them	Matt 23:33
331. Zech 11:8b	Despised	Matt 27:20
332. Zech 11:9	Stops ministering to those who rejected Him	Matt 13:10-11
333. Zech 11:10-11a	Rejection causes God to remove protection	Luke 19:41-44
334. Zech 11:10-11b	The Messiah would be God	John 14:7
335. Zech 11:12-13a	Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver	Matt 26:14-15
336. Zech 11:12-13b	Rejected	Matt 26:14-15
337. Zech 11:12-13c	Thirty pieces of silver cast in the house of the Lord	Matt 27:3-5
338. Zech 11:12-13d	The Messiah would be God	John 12:45
339. Zech 12:10a	The Messiah’s body would be pierced	John 19:34-37

340. Zech 12:10b	The Messiah would be both God and man	John 10:30
341. Zech 12:10c	The Messiah would be rejected	John 1:11
342. Zech 13:7a	God’s will He die for mankind	John 18:11
343. Zech 13:7b	A violent death	Mark 14:27
344. Zech 13:7c	Both God and man	John 14:9
345. Zech 13:7d	Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him	Matt 26:31-56
346. Zech 14:4	He would return to the Mt. of Olives	Acts 1:11-12
347. Mal 3:1a	Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah	Mark 1:1-8
348. Mal 3:1b	Sudden appearance at the temple	Mark 11:15-16
349. Mal 3:1c	Messenger of the new covenant	Luke 4:43

350. Mal 4:5	Forerunner in spirit of Elijah	Matt 3:1-3; 11:10-14; 17:11-13
351. Mal 4:6	Forerunner would turn many to righteousness	Luke 1:16-17

 

[AnonymousKot]

Shalom Rabbi Troonstein

 

[Trapped Under Rice]

"I just don't see how it squares with the teaching of the OT"

Mfw the OP doesn't know the God of the Jews is Yaldabaoth.

 

[YE24]

Genesis 15:6: And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Numbers 14: 11And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? 12I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.

John 5:46a, Jesus speaking: For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me.

Disbelief is the grounds for disinheritance. Belief is the only trait that EVER was counted by the Father as righteousness. If you don't grasp these dynamics, you have nowhere near the grasp of Scripture to be making the kinds of faulty evaluations you began this thread with.

More:

2 Chron 20:20b: Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper

Jeremiah 6:16: Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

2 Kings 17.

1 Sam 2:35: And I will raise me up a faithful [believing; same Hebrew word] priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.

 

[MadStan]

You gotta be an awful big idiot to really believe in heaven, hell and the great divine one. But whatever floats your boat. Instead accept the truth you’ll die someday and you won’t be around to cry about it. On the upside, you won’t have to put up with an eternity of listening to your mother and father, their parents, and their parents, and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents…you get the idea.