Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed, Got Hooked on Benzos

[Glad I couldn't help]

What surprise will the good Doctor reveal tomorrow?

 

[Hagfish]

View attachment 2922068
What surprise will the good Doctor reveal tomorrow?

10 dollars on "henceforth you may call me jenny, and my pronouns are..."
25 dollars on "Maybe women aint that bad"
50 dollars on "Covid is good for you"
100 dollars on "Western civilization is falling apart, (episode 2732)"

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

View attachment 2922068
What surprise will the good Doctor reveal tomorrow?

"I'M PREGNANT"

 

[Lemmingwise]

He's starting a new venture. A book. A psychology test. A new spotify podcast deal. An all benzo diet.

We'll see how he plans to make money next.

 

[timewave0]

He's a shadow of his former self, this podcast versus his appearences before the benzos/induced coma are night and day. I think he must have some kind of TBI because it's the only explanation that makes sense in how one man can go so completely away from what he once was.

The entire thing was hard to get through at points. I thought the Ye episode had too many tangents, but our boy JP doesn't seem to be able to stick to anything.

Agreed. He has noticeably declined since the procedure. There’s a reason he had to go to Russia to get this ultra rapid detox procedure done — because it’s fucking dangerous and insane. His daughter’s whole narrative about what happened makes no sense.

I don’t know what’s going on but he must have some kind of deeper psychological issue. For instance, I can’t think of any mechanism by which a single spoonful of apple cider vinegar would cause month-long insomnia. I can’t think of any physical reason why someone would only be able to eat beef. Finally, as awful & dangerous as benzo withdrawal is, it doesn’t make sense that he would pursue batshit insane URD rather than just verrry slowly tapering the dose. You don’t have to go from 5 pills to 4 or whatever, you can go from 5 to 4.75. The whole thing is inexplicable to me.

 

[Hagfish]

Agreed. He has noticeably declined since the procedure. There’s a reason he had to go to Russia to get this ultra rapid detox procedure done — because it’s fucking dangerous and insane. His daughter’s whole narrative about what happened makes no sense.

I don’t know what’s going on but he must have some kind of deeper psychological issue. For instance, I can’t think of any mechanism by which a single spoonful of apple cider vinegar would cause month-long insomnia. I can’t think of any physical reason why someone would only be able to eat beef. Finally, as awful & dangerous as benzo withdrawal is, it doesn’t make sense that he would pursue batshit insane URD rather than just verrry slowly tapering the dose. You don’t have to go from 5 pills to 4 or whatever, you can go from 5 to 4.75. The whole thing is inexplicable to me.

here is my armchair analysis of Jordan Peterson.

He is a dude with pretty bad depression and anxiety, and like most people throughout history he has sought to combat those ailments.
Some people turn to drink or vices, some to physical gratification (women usually), others turn to the "fake it til you make it", and others just opt to break down every 100 feet, cry for a bit, get up and continue on. though the healthiest coping mechanism is to acknowledge that you have a problem and seek regular routine help and care to deal with it,

Peterson however seems to belong to a weird mix of the "fake it til you make it" and "acknowledge the problem" group. However instead of therapy it seems, he has opted to look towards the past, how men in the past were strong and not weak. men were men, women were women, and things were simple and made sense (except for the alcoholism, emotional stunting and other shit brought on by the industrial revolution).

Peterson's solutions seem to follow a sort of rabbit trails of proverbial DIY fixes and shit that, at best, function as placebos. the carnivore diet and god-bothering (which, before the Great Benzoning, seems to have been more fence-straddling) and more or less worship of the past and tradition. And this was the kitchen sink of placebos that worked for him most of his life. Until, of course, he faced mortality with the cancer diagnosis of his wife.

The thing about the "fake it til you make it" mentality, is that the place you're making it to is the grave, and the more you ignore the deeper underlying problems the harder it becomes to fake shit. before you know it, you switch out carnivore diet and the bible with benzos and a one-way ticket to Russia.

People often talk about "old peterson vs new peterson", as if they're two different people, but in reality there is just one Peterson, the same Peterson, and that Peterson was forced to swallow a whole lot of reality in a short period of time and that shit broke him. Like when Bane raped Batman.

 

[Dr. Jekyll]

Agreed. He has noticeably declined since the procedure. There’s a reason he had to go to Russia to get this ultra rapid detox procedure done — because it’s fucking dangerous and insane. His daughter’s whole narrative about what happened makes no sense.

I don’t know what’s going on but he must have some kind of deeper psychological issue. For instance, I can’t think of any mechanism by which a single spoonful of apple cider vinegar would cause month-long insomnia. I can’t think of any physical reason why someone would only be able to eat beef. Finally, as awful & dangerous as benzo withdrawal is, it doesn’t make sense that he would pursue batshit insane URD rather than just verrry slowly tapering the dose. You don’t have to go from 5 pills to 4 or whatever, you can go from 5 to 4.75. The whole thing is inexplicable to me.

So much of what they say makes zero sense without more detail like the apple cider shit. I'd love to know the full story behind the curtains because it's a trainwreck in front of it, imagine how bad it must be.

(Unrelated but re: your username - do you think TM would have been a lolcow ala JP were he still alive?)

 

[Lemmingwise]

here is my armchair analysis of Jordan Peterson.

He is a dude with pretty bad depression and anxiety, and like most people throughout history he has sought to combat those ailments.
Some people turn to drink or vices, some to physical gratification (women usually), others turn to the "fake it til you make it", and others just opt to break down every 100 feet, cry for a bit, get up and continue on. though the healthiest coping mechanism is to acknowledge that you have a problem and seek regular routine help and care to deal with it,

Peterson however seems to belong to a weird mix of the "fake it til you make it" and "acknowledge the problem" group. However instead of therapy it seems, he has opted to look towards the past, how men in the past were strong and not weak. men were men, women were women, and things were simple and made sense (except for the alcoholism, emotional stunting and other shit brought on by the industrial revolution).

Peterson's solutions seem to follow a sort of rabbit trails of proverbial DIY fixes and shit that, at best, function as placebos. the carnivore diet and god-bothering (which, before the Great Benzoning, seems to have been more fence-straddling) and more or less worship of the past and tradition. And this was the kitchen sink of placebos that worked for him most of his life. Until, of course, he faced mortality with the cancer diagnosis of his wife.

The thing about the "fake it til you make it" mentality, is that the place you're making it to is the grave, and the more you ignore the deeper underlying problems the harder it becomes to fake shit. before you know it, you switch out carnivore diet and the bible with benzos and a one-way ticket to Russia.

People often talk about "old peterson vs new peterson", as if they're two different people, but in reality there is just one Peterson, the same Peterson, and that Peterson was forced to swallow a whole lot of reality in a short period of time and that shit broke him. Like when Bane raped Batman.

I think you're nailing things pretty close. Two points I'd like to make.

One, old vs new peterson is really the same guy with the same ideas, but with neither the virtuosity in expanding them, the mystery of being a new guy on the scene, nor the moment in time where people in general were hungry for new answers and there was a real groundswell (peterson rode the end of that wave).

And the other part is that I don't think his god bothering was that sincere; if anything he seems somewhat akin to a scientologist or non-practising jew (that still places value on cultural jewishness). A kind of post irony christian, one that perceives christianity through a more material lens (because when all is said and done, his takes on human truths are more material/biological than the ideas of the divine that 99% of christian history is based on).

And the cynical guy in me thinks it was always an intentional alignment to have a kind of presentation and brand that is accessible both to christians and nonchristians; the former being a very underutilised market, and the latter being the gatekeepers and thethen larger market, even if they have lower engagement rates. Though there too he touched an untapped market of people desiring religion, without religion in a sense (that's what post irony religions are for).

With those two points of difference mentioned, I think you nailed things exactly about depression and how he dealt with them.

I'd love to know the full story behind the curtains because it's a trainwreck in front of it, imagine how bad it must be.

I'm pretty sure rollo tomassi or vox day lined up the timeline with some of Mikhaila's story and her perscription talk that showed it lined up in time exactly with drug related things.

Insomnia is a decently common side effect of benzo withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Josterman]

From the quarter pounder

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Did I post this before - his interpretation of Nelson Muntz's role in The Simpsons?

 

[Cognitive Decline]

I listened to the Rogan podcast

Hour One
Abruptly starts with them talking about the podcasting process, which quickly switches to JP defending our current Liberal economic and political systems against radical environmental and social reforms. Reminds me of Steven Pinker's recent output, or something from Reason magazine. Mentions our amazing "accelerating" technological progress, without any examples. To me things in 2022 aren't much different from 2012, except with more mental illness and obesity. Phones and solar panels are cheaper and apps are more addictive though, I'll give him that.

Hour Two
Starts with JP crying (I'm only listening so I can't quite tell) while talking about people dancing and how it relates to the meaning of life. "Which is something like: to observe the harmonious interplay of the patterns of being, stacked on top of one another, and then to bring yourself into alignment with that."
Lots of bold, pseudo-philosophical claims about truth, The Good, success, and more, some of which Rogan doesn't seem to buy. JP's ideas on the causes of transgenderism: creativity and wanting to play pretend. It really doesn't hold a candle to the fine tranny scholarship conducted on this forum.

Hour Three

• Complaining about twitter trolls, reflections on fame
• Says during his benzo years he fainted 5 or 6 times a day
• Says he doesn't like to talk about his carnivore diet because he doesn't recommend it to people and is not a dietician
• Before said diet, Mikhaila was only awake 6 hours a day, and only that much thanks to Ritalin

Hour Four
JP says he has written 5 songs and a screenplay. We don't get to enjoy his talents here, though.
Comes back to praising his meat diet (that he doesn't like discussing). Mikhaila and Tammy now eat only "lamb and salt".
He hawks his wares:

• an upcoming book
• an app to help people write essays. "There's no difference between writing and thinking, and no difference between thinking and not failing".
• hours of new lectures

Ends with a ramble about religion, psychedelics, the Columbine shooters, antidepressants, Serotonin, hierarchy, and cancel culture. I guess it makes sense to save your biggest hits for the finale. JP and Rogan encore with a reflection on the JRE podcast that quickly goes off on more pointless JP tangents. It's scary how incoherent his train of thought is here; it reminds me of when my diabetic teacher's blood sugar would drop too low and he stopped making any sense. Rogan has to cut JP off and the podcast finally ends for real a few moments later.

Until the last 15 minutes he doesn't seem that much worse than his past self. He's still recognizably the same mind that produced Maps of Meaning back in 1999

Overall I didn't hear anything worth remembering in this performance, though.

 

[Seasoned News Reporter]

Maps of Meaning back in 1999
View attachment 2923354

Not gonna lie. This image quite literally sounds it could be a fucking fun ass warhammer 40k video game.

 

[indigoisviolet]

I don’t know what’s going on but he must have some kind of deeper psychological issue. For instance, I can’t think of any mechanism by which a single spoonful of apple cider vinegar would cause month-long insomnia. I can’t think of any physical reason why someone would only be able to eat beef. Finally, as awful & dangerous as benzo withdrawal is, it doesn’t make sense that he would pursue batshit insane URD rather than just verrry slowly tapering the dose. You don’t have to go from 5 pills to 4 or whatever, you can go from 5 to 4.75. The whole thing is inexplicable to me.

He has the same psychological disorder that drove him to drugs in the first place. Addicts of that sort of chemical are self-medicating their emotional trauma first and foremost. It's what drives their addiction compared with casual hedonists dipping in and out. He put himself out for several days to skip over the physical pain of withdrawl, yet appears in public at least to have done little to rid himself of the flywheel emotional pain which is almost certainly now manifesting in those other weird ticks and compulsions.

I guess he's not an addiction psychiatrist, yet you'd think one of his colleagues would have had a chat with him about it. The chemical lock and key mechanism for addiction hasn't been used since the 70s when that researcher re-experimented the rat model properly and found rats living in happy social conditions ignored the heroin bottle, even rats injected with heroin previously. Addiction is a bleak social issue, a crushing psychological issue, not a physical ailment.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Mikhaila and Tammy now eat only "lamb and salt".

Thanks for the whole write-up, because I couldn't sit through it. This is a great takeaway, lmao.

A recent podcast with Rogan (with toesoverfeet guy), Rogan discussed how he tried different diets and how he didn't like the all meat diet he tried two years ago (roughly) as it (predictably) harmed his energy levels and resulted in lesser workouts.

 

[Cisna H. Scumale]

Did I post this before - his interpretation of Nelson Muntz's role in The Simpsons?

That's hilarious. Peterson treats The Simpsons like its some intricately plotted series and not some episodic sitcom.

1) Kinda funny how he thinks that without Nelson, the school would be overrun by "narsisistic, intellectuals like Martin Prince" as if it was a bad thing considering who Peterson is.

2) Nelson is a "corrective, a tough, self-sufficient..." kid? You mean the same kid who has a running gag of him constantly crying over his father's abandonment and having delusions about him coming back? I guess that counts as "pretty well" when your a druggo who'd rather be in a brain damaging coma than go through rehab.

3) Nelson only dated Lisa for one episode and it resulted in her dumping him because he was an asshole bully who was constantly lying to her (and its an episodic sitcom that resets to the status quo). Isn't that against one of the 12 rules about being truthful and not lying?

 

[Hagfish]

I think you're nailing things pretty close. Two points I'd like to make.

One, old vs new peterson is really the same guy with the same ideas, but with neither the virtuosity in expanding them, the mystery of being a new guy on the scene, nor the moment in time where people in general were hungry for new answers and there was a real groundswell (peterson rode the end of that wave).

And the other part is that I don't think his god bothering was that sincere; if anything he seems somewhat akin to a scientologist or non-practising jew (that still places value on cultural jewishness). A kind of post irony christian, one that perceives christianity through a more material lens (because when all is said and done, his takes on human truths are more material/biological than the ideas of the divine that 99% of christian history is based on).

And the cynical guy in me thinks it was always an intentional alignment to have a kind of presentation and brand that is accessible both to christians and nonchristians; the former being a very underutilised market, and the latter being the gatekeepers and thethen larger market, even if they have lower engagement rates. Though there too he touched an untapped market of people desiring religion, without religion in a sense (that's what post irony religions are for).

With those two points of difference mentioned, I think you nailed things exactly about depression and how he dealt with them.

one the first point, definitely. How he arrived on the scene and how the public perceived him was drastically different, and obviously the level of energy has drifted massively, from mostly cohesive and on point to rarely cohesive and often pointless. But again, he is ultimately the same dude, and who he is now is part of the same package.
Its like when people look at the roman empire and ask "how could something so great turn into nothing but rubble", and ultimately the answer lies in what made it great in the first place. The answer being greekoid twinks.

And concerning the god bothering i think its about as sincere as with most religious people who ultimately wind up becoming more and more secular. I'd almost dub it Spiritual Agnosticism. The intellectually honest part of your brain says "there probably isn't a god", but the same part of your brain that tells you to be scared of a dark basement also prevents you from fully comprehending the reality that is implied by a truly godless universe. In the case of Peterson i think he surrenders himself to the soft spiritualism of that primal mindset, which by itself isnt a big deal. Most people have some form of spiritualism in their life, to feel part of something larger and greater than themselves. Relying on stuff such as concerts or sports games to feel part of some greater whole.
But as you point out, the way Peterson uses it its very clear that that is probably some cynial motives behind it as well, possibly subconciously, at least to some extent. Casting as broad a net as possible. Peterson wouldnt be the first person to do a weird sort of semi-blasphemous blend of mythology, Christianity and secularism to appeal to people in a time when many feel lost. Hopefully he doesn´t set up his own Compound.

I guess he's not an addiction psychiatrist, yet you'd think one of his colleagues would have had a chat with him about it.

For some reason i doubt Jordan Peterson would sit down voluntarily and listen to someone else explain in detail what his problems are and how he should deal with them. the Solutions to his problems aren't therapy, rehab or setting up a proverbial mental tool box to help him cope, but to slay the dragon of chaos and become the king of order, and rule Gondor as its true high king and the last living Dunedain, just like the bible foretold.

 

[indigoisviolet]

Good way to put it. The limitations of allegory are going to leave real bruises if you lean into it all too far.

I recall years ago Peterson tricked me into watching a three hour lecture on Pinocchio that went nowhere. That was hilarious. I laughed at myself for several minutes when the final part ended. I am too young to have experienced Andy Kaufman perfoming live, but I imagine it went something like that.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

That's hilarious. Peterson treats The Simpsons like its some intricately plotted series and not some episodic sitcom.

1) Kinda funny how he thinks that without Nelson, the school would be overrun by "narsisistic, intellectuals like Martin Prince" as if it was a bad thing considering who Peterson is.

2) Nelson is a "corrective, a tough, self-sufficient..." kid? You mean the same kid who has a running gag of him constantly crying over his father's abandonment and having delusions about him coming back? I guess that counts as "pretty well" when your a druggo who'd rather be in a brain damaging coma than go through rehab.

3) Nelson only dated Lisa for one episode and it resulted in her dumping him because he was an asshole bully who was constantly lying to her (and its an episodic sitcom that resets to the status quo). Isn't that against one of the 12 rules about being truthful and not lying?

If he were a Simpsons character, he'd be a mix of Ralph Wiggum and Kirk Van Houten.

Good way to put it. The limitations of allegory are going to leave real bruises if you lean into it all too far.

I recall years ago Peterson tricked me into watching a three hour lecture on Pinocchio that went nowhere. That was hilarious. I laughed at myself for several minutes when the final part ended. I am too young to have experienced Andy Kaufman perfoming live, but I imagine it went something like that.

He wishes he was Tony Clifton.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

It's scary how incoherent his train of thought is here;

His brain might be permanently damaged.

 

[A Sentient Dumpster]

I just can't get through it. What a tedious podcast to listen to.

There are some good ideas / insights that Peterson has from time to time, but it's only if I continually go "Oh, he probably meant x, even though he said y". This can't be good for Rogan's podcast.

This was my experience just five minutes in. I can listen to someone who competently defends ideas I disagree with, but it’s frustrating when there’s an obvious gap in an argument that I just want to fill in and he never seems to get to it.

His talking about the difficulty of climate modeling is all true, but his implication seems to be that it’s no better than random guessing because of this uncertainty issue. The much more reasonable conclusion is that the field exists to iteratively work on and eventually solve this issue. I think any serious climate researcher would openly “admit” this. Any predictive model in any science is only worth as much as its assumptions, but that’s an awful reason to give up altogether.

Maybe he does mention it eventually but I didn’t listen long enough to get there.