🎨 Artcow Ken Penders - Former Archie Sonic Comic Writer/Artist

[Trombonista]

@RX-78 and @MirageKai still want to fight, so I've threadbanned both of them for a day.

 

[el bandito loco]

this is essentially what I was saying before about he would just have to pay people but I do still not know why he can republish the stuff like Shaw!'s work which was made before him

 

[Mr. 0]

I feel like Ken is bullshtting here. People ITT are saying what he's doing/proposing is legal but do we (or anyone else for that matter) have this in writing?

 

[el bandito loco]

I feel like Ken is bullshtting here. People ITT are saying what he's doing/proposing is legal but do we (or anyone else for that matter) have this in writing?

the issue is that the settlement between him and Archie was confidential so there is no documents out there.

that said a few years ago someone leaked some court stuff but it really meant dick because it was stuff from archie's side of the case people took as proof that ken was wrong but of course one side of a legal case would say the other is wrong that's what court cases are about. And it was from the proceedings not whatever the end was.

we don't have anything directly in writing but I personally don't think we need it to show he can do any of this. There's legal precedent in multiple places where people were allowed to rerelease or make something featuring characters they don't own based on them owning the story itself, also Archie literally rebooted to remove anything he had done and stopped reprints. If the set didn't gain him ownership someone would have come out and prove that to be the case sometime in the last 15 years he's not shut up about it. even guys like bollars who HATES Ken and quit the comic to avoid working with him at all were apart of the case and testified on his behalf.

the one detail that is publicly known about the case are that he won. he was being sued over characters and stories he had been copyrighting and trademarking. that means he got them. Him owning that stuff outright means, like in other set precedented cases he can do whatever he wants with that material. we'll never see the settlement because it was confidential for both parties but that doesn't mean we can't follow the law and look at other examples to prove what he's doing is fine legally speaking even knowing the limited facts we do about the case.

 

[Fag Alert Major Fag Alert]

the issue is that the settlement between him and Archie was confidential so there is no documents out there.

that said a few years ago someone leaked some court stuff but it really meant dick because it was stuff from archie's side of the case people took as proof that ken was wrong but of course one side of a legal case would say the other is wrong that's what court cases are about. And it was from the proceedings not whatever the end was.

we don't have anything directly in writing but I personally don't think we need it to show he can do any of this. There's legal precedent in multiple places where people were allowed to rerelease or make something featuring characters they don't own based on them owning the story itself, also Archie literally rebooted to remove anything he had done and stopped reprints. If the set didn't gain him ownership someone would have come out and prove that to be the case sometime in the last 15 years he's not shut up about it. even guys like bollars who HATES Ken and quit the comic to avoid working with him at all were apart of the case and testified on his behalf.

the one detail that is publicly known about the case are that he won. he was being sued over characters and stories he had been copyrighting and trademarking. that means he got them. Him owning that stuff outright means, like in other set precedented cases he can do whatever he wants with that material. we'll never see the settlement because it was confidential for both parties but that doesn't mean we can't follow the law and look at other examples to prove what he's doing is fine legally speaking even knowing the limited facts we do about the case.

The settlement might be confidential, but that doesn’t mean we’re in the dark. Even if court documents leaked only from Archie’s side, it’s clear legal precedents support Ken’s claims. Look at the facts: Archie rebooted to remove his contributions and ceased reprints, implying they had to respect his rights. Plus, if Ken didn’t own the material, someone would have challenged him in the past 15 years given how vocal he’s been. Even those who dislike Ken supported his case. The bottom line is he won, which means he has the rights. Legal examples back up his ability to use the material, so unless you have concrete proof otherwise, it’s clear he’s within his rights.

 

[el bandito loco]

@Fag Alert Major Fag Alert you said what I was trying to much more succinctly. thank you. I keep reiterating this because I do not want to be misconstrued, but I do not like the man but think he is funny, that said it irritates me so much of the discourse around him is HE CAN'T DO THIS when there is a very clear throughline that, yes he fucking can. anyone who says otherwise either just knows nothing about how the legal stuff about this type of thing works, or is just in denial.

 

[Fag Alert Major Fag Alert]

@Fag Alert Major Fag Alert you said what I was trying to much more succinctly. thank you. I keep reiterating this because I do not want to be misconstrued, but I do not like the man but think he is funny, that said it irritates me so much of the discourse around him is HE CAN'T DO THIS when there is a very clear throughline that, yes he fucking can. anyone who says otherwise either just knows nothing about how the legal stuff about this type of thing works, or is just in denial.

Mmhmm, exactly. I think the only other legal issue he might face involves the Sonic characters, like Knuckles and Sonic’s friends from the games, excluding the three American cartoons where Sonic has a brother and sister. My concern is whether he actually owns the rights to the characters he creates. Would it be a legal gray area for him to claim ownership of the echidna Knuckles? That’s what I really want to know—if Ken owns that version of the character and not just the one from the video games. This is another complex issue we haven’t resolved yet.

Aside from that, Ken is a humorous figure to me, particularly due to his Blue Maga/Liberal QAnon beliefs that Joe Biden will bring democracy to his struggling country. It’s amusing how delusional Ken Penders is. But that’s beside the point. I just enjoy seeing him get upset over silly cartoon animals, you know?

 

[el bandito loco]

Mmhmm, exactly. I think the only other legal issue he might face involves the Sonic characters, like Knuckles and Sonic’s friends from the games, excluding the three American cartoons where Sonic has a brother and sister. My concern is whether he actually owns the rights to the characters he creates. Would it be a legal gray area for him to claim ownership of the echidna Knuckles? That’s what I really want to know—if Ken owns that version of the character and not just the one from the video games. This is another complex issue we haven’t resolved yet.

Aside from that, Ken is a humorous figure to me, particularly due to his Blue Maga/Liberal QAnon beliefs that Joe Biden will bring democracy to his struggling country. It’s amusing how delusional Ken Penders is. But that’s beside the point. I just enjoy seeing him get upset over silly cartoon animals, you know?

I amended an edited post I made to put this here because I have been bad about double posting in this thread the past few days and you asked right after I had changed it about what I had been talking about lol.

but another thing I would like to note is I do believe I don't think he can use the traditional Sega characters going forward, and that is probably part of the terms of his settlement. for example Knuckles just dies off screen in his new comic and Sonic is never referred to by name. In general I think we can infer tons of stuff about this case and the terms from just what we have to look at. unlike the case of thunderball (where the guy was going to and it was A-Okay but he didn't) where the person who had the rights was going to make sequels also to that story and just his own competing James Bond movies which fell through because Connery didn't want to, Ken most likely got a deal where that because Archie already had licensed Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/etc from another party in sega, his settlement most likely was you can do whatever the fuck you want with what YOU personally own, and make sequels or continuations with it, but those guys are off limits even if you own their prior history. you can reference that, but can't move forward USING them outside of re-releasing what you already made.

as to your last point, I agree that is why I love following him he's fucking hilarious. he believes the most retarded political shit and never shuts up about it

 

[RX-78]

I feel like Ken is bullshtting here. People ITT are saying what he's doing/proposing is legal but do we (or anyone else for that matter) have this in writing?

Kenders has retard-grade confidence because he won the last court case, and that was only due to archie being completely inept at it's own book-keeping and hiring garbage lawyers on the cheap. Sega, for all it's numerous faults, has more legal competency and more money to hire superior attorneys for any legal issues compared to one of the smallest publishers in a very small industry. He isn't bullshitting so much as he's too stupid to realize what he's gotten himself into, and that's going to be a rude awakening when the court eats him alive after he fails to explain why Evil Sonic the Hedgehog is a distinct and unrelated entity to Normal Sonic the Hedgehog.

You have to have realistic expectations when dealing with a boomer who spent his entire career writing gay OC furfag melodrama.

 

[el bandito loco]

Kenders has retard-grade confidence because he won the last court case, and that was only due to archie being completely inept at it's own book-keeping and hiring garbage lawyers on the cheap. Sega, for all it's numerous faults, has more legal competency and more money to hire superior attorneys for any legal issues compared to one of the smallest publishers in a very small industry. He isn't bullshitting so much as he's too stupid to realize what he's gotten himself into, and that's going to be a rude awakening when the court eats him alive after he fails to explain why Evil Sonic the Hedgehog is a distinct and unrelated entity to Normal Sonic the Hedgehog.

You have to have realistic expectations when dealing with a boomer who spent his entire career writing gay OC furfag melodrama.

what are you talking about evil sonic, as retarded as it is is literally already a legally speaking distinct and unrelated entity to normal sonic he owns him flat out. he wouldn't if that wasn't true (despite how dumb I think that is) this is all archie's fault and not some great Ken win or something, they totally fucked up but that example is demonstrably terrible. the only thing they could possibly sue him for is if he plasters the sonic logo all over his book and draws him all over the cover.

 

[RX-78]

what are you talking about evil sonic, as retarded as it is is literally already a legally speaking distinct and unrelated entity to normal sonic he owns him flat out. he wouldn't if that wasn't true (despite how dumb I think that is) this is all archie's fault and not some great Ken win or something, they totally fucked up but that example is demonstrably terrible. the only thing they could possibly sue him for is if he plasters the sonic logo all over his book and draws him all over the cover.

You say that while Knuckles is everywhere, so it's only a matter of time before Ken fucks up again. No other IP looks like the Sonic style and now that he's publishing his work for profit he's made himself open to infringement suits.

 

[el bandito loco]

You say that while Knuckles is everywhere, so it's only a matter of time before Ken fucks up again. No other IP looks like the Sonic style and now that he's publishing his work for profit he's made himself open to infringement suits.

I don't even think I disagree with you on principal or your general Ken dislike, but dude why the fuck do you think Lara Su Chronicles looks as gross at it does? it's to not look like Sonic. lol he didn't change his artstyle he had had for 40 years just for kicks although he is a retard and does think it looks good. what the fuck is it with you Penders people who can't understand NO HE IS NOT open to infringement suits. he owns that shit! he can print whatever he wants! I gave literal legal examples before. he can continue his shit comic! should he? hell no look at it! but he can! I'm not going to derail the thread or continue arguing with you because it's a waste of your time and my own but he can do this legally speaking and I don't understand why people refuse to look at literal precedent and insist he can't.

 

[AlmightyMagichan]

For some reason I started thinking about how there's no end goal to any of this. There's not going to be an ending, no romance is ever going to happen, the characters can only develop so much, and they just recycle the same concepts. Those poor woodland creatures are trapped in a perpetual hell while we all watch. The Pender characters received mercy.

 

[el bandito loco]

For some reason I started thinking about how there's no end goal to any of this. There's not going to be an ending, no romance is ever going to happen, the characters can only develop so much, and they just recycle the same concepts. Those poor woodland creatures are trapped in a perpetual hell while we all watch. The Pender characters received mercy.

from what little I know about IDW (not much please correct me if I am ignorant) is basically that sonic can never have any real development. like he can't be in love, or be sad etc and I assume that is for every SEGA character. that sucks if you're into the lore or whatever. Ken will NEVER finish Lara Su, it took him damn near 20 years to release a handful of pages. that said at least the characters he CAN use can change and go forward. will they? no because his writing is terrible. I actually will be shocked if we even get a volume 2. I could be surprised, I thought volume 0 beginnings was vaporware but it did finally release. but he's an old man we aren't getting his whole run. and he said some dumb shit on twitter like "my kids will finish it if I die" no Ken they won't. they probably don't even know what you're up to. never change you old retard.

 

[JesusChristDenton]

from what little I know about IDW (not much please correct me if I am ignorant) is basically that sonic can never have any real development. like he can't be in love, or be sad etc and I assume that is for every SEGA character. that sucks if you're into the lore or whatever.

Pretty sure that's also a big reason why IDW is pushing characters like Tangle and Whisper into our faces, it's because they're some of the few characters allowed to actually develop and change over time.

 

[AnOminous]

I don't even think I disagree with you on principal or your general Ken dislike, but dude why the fuck do you think Lara Su Chronicles looks as gross at it does? it's to not look like Sonic.

Suing him for drawing too much like Ken Penders would be like the frivolous lawsuit John Fogerty's former label filed against him for sounding too much like John Fogerty (they lost).

I think he autistically believes his atrociously ugly style is good.

 

[The tired cat]

Pretty sure that's also a big reason why IDW is pushing characters like Tangle and Whisper into our faces, it's because they're some of the few characters allowed to actually develop and change over time.

Sort off, from what I recall just Sonic on the list of characters that cannot be altered or changed, Amy, Tails, etc. and newest characters are all free game though

 

[el bandito loco]

Pretty sure that's also a big reason why IDW is pushing characters like Tangle and Whisper into our faces, it's because they're some of the few characters allowed to actually develop and change over time.

you are most likely right

Suing him for drawing too much like Ken Penders would be like the frivolous lawsuit John Fogerty's former label filed against him for sounding too much like John Fogerty (they lost).

I think he autistically believes his atrociously ugly style is good.

I think he does too which is nuts because it's the ugliest art I have seen in my whole life. no joke it legitimately is maybe the worst style I have ever seen in a commercial product but I do think he changed specifically for legal reasons. he was never great before but he COULD draw. I think he probably was told he had to make it legally distinct looking and he thought that meant his whole style instead of just the product itself so he went full retard with it

 

[AnOminous]

you are most likely right

I think he does too which is nuts because it's the ugliest art I have seen in my whole life. no joke it legitimately is maybe the worst style I have ever seen in a commercial product but I do think he changed specifically for legal reasons. he was never great before but he COULD draw. I think he probably was told he had to make it legally distinct looking and he thought that meant his whole style instead of just the product itself so he went full retard with it

"Look and feel" lawsuits have had really bad results for the plaintiffs in general, though. E.g. Apple v. Microsoft alleging that Microsoft ripped off the Apple OS look for Windows (they did and blatantly). Apple lost.

Fun fact, Xerox also sued Apple at some point on essentially the same theory, i.e. that Apple had ripped off their Xerox PARC project (which they did and blatantly). Xerox lost.

 

[Fag Alert Major Fag Alert]

you are most likely right

I think he does too which is nuts because it's the ugliest art I have seen in my whole life. no joke it legitimately is maybe the worst style I have ever seen in a commercial product but I do think he changed specifically for legal reasons. he was never great before but he COULD draw. I think he probably was told he had to make it legally distinct looking and he thought that meant his whole style instead of just the product itself so he went full retard with it

The ugly the art. The more bootleg it feels. Like the Ken Penders comic is more shady than Chinese bootleg movies and it’s just sad as the man can draw art when he isn’t tracing art from other comics and stories. It’s just embarrassing man