Kiwi Farms Community Doom Mapping Project

[Mysterious Autist XX]

There will be.
I INVOKE @Nambona890

Perfect, we will definitely get Doomworld's panties in a twist.

EDIT:

Now you guys made me think there should be a St Terry themed map.

Wrong Terry but there 100% should be a Terry Davis themed map. Terrywads are just an infamous kind of troll wad, usually involving lots of rape of various kinds.

 

[Hax1337]

No custom assets at all?
So this is simply a generic Doom 2 mapping project rather than lolcow themed maps?

I never mapped for Doom so I don't know the limitations of custom content but wouldn't it be possible to just set a really small texture/sound size limit and have some sort of universal naming/sorting scheme to follow so it's easy to put it all into one file later on?

I have a couple of ideas but they wouldn't really work without at least replacing an enemy's sprite/sounds (or making a new enemy if that' s possible).

 

[Enig]

I never mapped for Doom so I don't know the limitations of custom content but wouldn't it be possible to just set a really small texture/sound size limit and have some sort of universal naming/sorting scheme to follow so it's easy to put it all into one file later on?

I was going to work with custom textures and just optimize them all down for filesize/Doom's graphical level and header all of them with "EN_" to keep them from cross-contaminating, could be the thing to do on this

 

[Übermensch Doom Cuck]

I'll definitely play this if it becomes a thing. I do have some mapping experience but I'm busy with other stuff atm, so sadly I won't be able to participate.

Good luck to you all!

 

[Laughing Muttley]

That would be an amazing opportunity to break out the doom builder again. I'm pretty proficient with it.
I'm happy to work for any limit removing port but won't be into playing with special ZDoom sectors and tricks to maximize compatibility!

@Judge Dredd : Might I suggested that we discuss attributing map numbers early (MAP01 through MAP32), so that we have an idea of where our map will be played in relation to others, who gets to add secret exits, who's making the secrets levels, that kind of stuff!

Edit: While I'm pretty effective with doom builder I'm not the most imaginative person, so if anyone has ideas on how to include kf specific references in the constraints of a doom map I'm all ears!

 

[The Hero of Kvatch]

This rolls around as I'm getting into making my own custom shit for DooM. What're the odds?

I have a DooM II map on the backburner which I'm throwing together. With plenty of Map 31 + 32 textures because I'm an edgy faggot.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Under old alias of mine, that is, just in spite to troonworld and zgroom.

Nice. I'll be using my KF name as it'll be trivial to tie to my others to my indie dev projects.

I hope there aren't any Terrywads.

Yes and no. I won't be banning based on quality, but if it's obviously a low effort troll map I won't include it. The idea is to have something that's actually playable, so each map should be completable.

So this is simply a generic Doom 2 mapping project rather than lolcow themed maps?

Yes and no. My idea right now is for a map called "big tech" where you fight through a building to get the KF drive/bring the site back online. Not sure if it should be full of nazis or demons. ...or both.

Generic Doom maps are welcome as well. My other idea was one of those. Not everything has to be a KF reference. eg. Mr Bones Wild Ride came from 4chan, but that's not just a bunch of pol memes and b references.

I never mapped for Doom so I don't know the limitations of custom content but wouldn't it be possible to just set a really small texture/sound size limit and have some sort of universal naming/sorting scheme to follow so it's easy to put it all into one file later on?

On paper, yes. In practice, other community map projects I've been a part of that tried that, people keep breaking things. This is why I suggested a common texture packs in the OP.

That said, we have 4 weeks, so if you want, we can spend the next week or two setting up a shared resource file.

I have a couple of ideas but they wouldn't really work without at least replacing an enemy's sprite/sounds (or making a new enemy if that' s possible).

It might be? I'm not that technically proficient with Doom to know the specifics. Though things like enemy replacements might be better handled with a gameplay mod like Brutal Doom and Moonman mod?

If it really requires custom enemies, textures, etc. It might be better to either make it it's own thing? My experience with Doom modding is mostly mapping and some custom weapons, so don't know how to merge custom enemies into a project like this.

since this shit will be worked on for gzdoom I might to give a shot and attempt to atart a layout for uh... the hub map of sorts. Like in Dump3.

If you want to do that, that's great. I wasn't expecting many submissions, so I wasn't expecting to need a hub map.

I don't know if there'd be enough maps for a meta game. Do you have any ideas for that, or would it just be for level select?

Might I suggested that we discuss attributing map numbers early (MAP01 through MAP32), so that we have an idea of where our map will be played in relation to others, who gets to add secret exits, who's making the secrets levels, that kind of stuff!

Could do. I thought that kind of thing wasn't required any more? I was only expecting a few people to be interested, and at worst I could split it into episodes. How are you interested in tackling progression? By weapons or difficulty?

 

[IKOL]

Nice. I'll be using my KF name as it'll be trivial to tie to my others to my indie dev projects.

Couldn't care less about doomtroons finding out I'm here. They already aware so that wouldn't make much of a difference. And as for my projects and shit I couldn't care less, my irl is safe and sound, and what things do I have in internet other than drawings that are dispersed all over the places? right.

I don't know if there'd be enough maps for a meta game. Do you have any ideas for that, or would it just be for level select?

More like a simple hub level but with a bit of kiwi lore. Why not.

 

[Laughing Muttley]

I thought that kind of thing wasn't required any more?

It's not, but I think it requires a bit of tinkering to create a final wad that plays properly from beginning to end without having to warp from level to level(?). I remember merging maps being a bit complex when collisions happen (like two different people submitting a MAP05); but maybe that's not a problem anymore.
It doesn't have to be complex, perhaps we just claim maps sequentially and keep track of who is doing which in a table in the OP. Maybe I'm overthinking it, your project, your call.

How are you interested in tackling progression? By weapons or difficulty?

I was thinking mostly by weapons, not popping a BFG in the first room of MAP01, that kind of thing. Again, maybe I'm overthinking it, and we just do whatever we feel like doing as long as every single map can be pistol-started.

I think it would be neat if the whole project could be played in one sitting like the megawads of old!

 

[Judge Dredd]

I remember merging maps being a bit complex when collisions happen (like two different people submitting a MAP05); but maybe that's not a problem anymore.

It might be? I've never hosted one before, but I thought you could rename maps fairly easy?

There's also the problem of people dropping out/not finishing on time. Would that leave gaps in the map series?

I was thinking mostly by weapons, not popping a BFG in the first room of MAP01, that kind of thing. Again, maybe I'm overthinking it, and we just do whatever we feel like doing as long as every single map can be pistol-started.

We can do whichever. I'll add weapons to the map info list.

I think it would be neat if the whole project could be played in one sitting like the megawads of old!

Agreed. But I think it would be best if we did that with some kind of theme. Maybe a future pack if this one is a success?

I originally wanted this be a Doom 1 themed project, but there was some confusion with the map formats, and it would've been more controversial than the no custom assets rule. I like episodes more than Doom 2s way of doing things because you can play through an episode in an afternoon.

 

[Point Man]

Cool idea, always nice seeing people collaborate with stuff like this. I'm contemplating if I want to join in on the fun and shit out something, but I haven't touched Doombuilder or SLADE3 in years, maybe even like a decade.

I don't know if it's been asked yet and might be somewhat of a nebulous question, but what kind of comp level are you aiming for with the map? Like is it geared more towards ZDoom or something like Chocolate Doom or Boom?

 

[Laughing Muttley]

It might be? I've never hosted one before, but I thought you could rename maps fairly easy?

Assuming we can, some people may want to rely on the special built in scripting of certain maps (I know everybody wants to have MAP07 because of the special sectors), I don't remember which maps have special definitions on top of MAP07 tho.

There's also the problem of people dropping out/not finishing on time. Would that leave gaps in the map series?

Maybe we figure out how to move maps around if that happens.

Agreed. But I think it would be best if we did that with some kind of theme. Maybe a future pack if this one is a success?

Fine by me then; we see what we all collectively come up with and see how (or if) we assemble it in the end type plan is good too.

Props on starting the project either way, I'm eager to get started and show you what I can do!

 

[Varretnon847]

Oh nice, that Kiwi Doom community project idea we all had is actually going to happen. I don't think I'm going to participate though, I haven't tried mapping for Doom in like 4 years, and even at that time I was shit, but I will keep an eye on this so good luck.

 

[Really makes you thunk]

We’ll be targeting GZDoom, meaning a wide variety of formats are supported. Boom and UDMF are the big ones. Boom is limiting, but arguably simpler. UDMF allows for fancy modern things like reflections, ramps, dynamic lights, and other advanced techniques.

A quick Google didn't help me figure this out, forgive me, but I didn't know it was possible to have more than one map format within the same wad? I kind of assumed if one map was UDMF, for example, they all had to be? I'm assuming I'm wrong, even if it's just some GZDoom bullshittery that allows it to happen- but if I'm not, there should probably be some consensus on what map format to use so that we're all on board?

 

[IKOL]

A quick Google didn't help me figure this out, forgive me, but I didn't know it was possible to have more than one map format within the same wad? I kind of assumed if one map was UDMF, for example, they all had to be? I'm assuming I'm wrong, even if it's just some GZDoom bullshittery that allows it to happen- but if I'm not, there should probably be some consensus on what map format to use so that we're all on board?

It's better to keep a certain consistency in terms of map formats, yes. However, if you played Compedium it had a variety of level packs which were done in different map formats

 

[Judge Dredd]

I don't know if it's been asked yet and might be somewhat of a nebulous question, but what kind of comp level are you aiming for with the map? Like is it geared more towards ZDoom or something like Chocolate Doom or Boom?

GZDoom. Mainly because it supports almost everything. There is no requirement you use specific features of a specific engine. There's no scripts though.

I didn't know it was possible to have more than one map format within the same wad?

@IKOL answered this, and he knows way more than me. RAMP allowed for maps from all formats, so I assume it works. Worst case scenario I'll put two wads out.

even at that time I was shit, but I will keep an eye on this so good luck.

I'm also bad at it. I was never any good at hyper realistic or super detailed maps, and I fail to make up for it with gameplay.

 

[Kane Lives]

I actually am not sure if tying ourselves to a Doom 1 style episode would limit us to only Doom 1 weapons and menagerie. Which would suck because a lot of the fun monsters were in Doom 2. Of course, this matters less if we intend to script our own monsters.

A quick Google didn't help me figure this out, forgive me, but I didn't know it was possible to have more than one map format within the same wad? I kind of assumed if one map was UDMF, for example, they all had to be? I'm assuming I'm wrong, even if it's just some GZDoom bullshittery that allows it to happen- but if I'm not, there should probably be some consensus on what map format to use so that we're all on board?

My gut feeling is that this isn't possible. Simply because of all the compatibility issues it might cause. (UDMF supports a lot of things, and I sincerely doubt the engine would gracefully transition from one level to another that is made in say, Boom-style.)

 

[Hax1337]

That said, we have 4 weeks, so if you want, we can spend the next week or two setting up a shared resource file.

That sounds good, my main idea is to set up a simple Fatrick Tomlinson themed map where you go into his basement to disable his salami making machine.
I'd like to edit his face onto an imp and replace the fireballs with dark salami as well as change his attack and death sounds into his hollering from the swatting and prank call audio.

I'll make that as part of learning the map editor and once I get to know the custom asset situation I'll throw around some ideas about how we could do this.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

I originally wanted this be a Doom 1 themed project, but there was some confusion with the map formats, and it would've been more controversial than the no custom assets rule. I like episodes more than Doom 2s way of doing things because you can play through an episode in an afternoon.

While I like the idea of episodes, doom 2 format would have more options for mobs, textures, weapons, ect.

I also want to say that I THINK maps in different formats won't be an issue, since they are different maps entirely. I mean, you can load a udmf map and it doesn't crash because you can ALSO load doom2 IWAD maps (any single map with udmf jumps to underhalls if you beat it, and THIS doesn't shit the bed) So I think this concern is horse-shit, not to mention the map files being entirely separated, besides a "trigger to exit from x map into y map".

I remember merging maps being a bit complex when collisions happen (like two different people submitting a MAP05); but maybe that's not a problem anymore.

If the offer made about a hub map is fruitful, I think a deal like dump 1-3 would be good, just a big hub map, portals going to maps, and locking them off after you enter. hub build was a project, but then you can just slap other maps in with more portals. Makes it easier than having to worry about a map order, and pistol start of those maps made you not have to worry about sequential balancing.

If we absolutely MUST pick a format, UDMF has higher capabilities, like you can put scripts like printing text straight in the map, so I'd go for that if we have to pick 1.

 

[Kung Pow]

I think we can do custom assets since those assets are inside the wad, I don't know how that would work with a hub or a megawad, however.
I heard that a hub could have separate wads with their own content without jumble it together creating potential errors, can someone confirm this?