Kiwi Farms Is Back The return of the trollish forum demonstrates the futility of bans on bad speech.


Kiwi Farms Is Back​

The return of the trollish forum demonstrates the futility of bans on bad speech.​

ELIZABETH NOLAN BROWN | 10.7.2022 10:00 AM


Kiwi Farms logo stylized

(Illustration: Lex Villena)
It's been a little over a month since the internet services company Cloudflare terminated its relationship with Kiwi Farms, a web forum accused of fomenting harassment campaigns. But today, Kiwi Farms seems to be back and doing just fine.
After Cloudflare canceled Kiwi Farms' domain registration and DDoS mitigation services on September 3, the forum was temporarily inaccessible via its main URL (kiwifarms.net), though it could still be accessed on alternate domains during that period. (If you're curious about all the technical twists and turns, see this thread.) But by September 15, the main Kiwi Farms domain was back up. And the forum now seems to be operating normally.
The situation showcases once again how campaigns to rid the internet of supposed "hate speech"—or any particular type of speech—are doomed.
From pirated literature and academic papers to sex worker ads, MAGA organizing, or fringe forums, where's there's a will—and a pluralistic, global internet—there's a way.
This is undoubtedly a good thing. No group has ever gotten less radicalized by being driven underground, and no economic sector has ever gotten safer by being driven into a black market.
If you're worried that adult advertising platforms, fringe-right forums, etc. are harboring actual criminal actors, it's better for these sites to be accessible and hosted in the U.S. This way people can keep tabs on them, and platform operators are subject to subpoenas and other law enforcement requests. And if you're worried that certain platforms are hotbeds of hate or disinformation, it's better that those who would counter them can actually see what's being said. It's hard to challenge information or ideas that are exchanged more privately.
Those are the utilitarian reasons why the campaign to drive "dangerous" speech off the internet is misguided. Of course, there's also a more ideological or symbolic component.
In a liberal, pluralistic society, trying to deny entire groups of people the right to speak or associate is not great.
Private companies like Cloudflare are certainly within their rights to terminate services to platforms they deem dangerous or offensive. And they have reasonable incentives for doing so, given the drive to hold all sorts of internet intermediaries legally and professionally liable for third-party content. But the now popular online pastime of pressuring companies into these decisions is bad from both a culture-of-free-speech standpoint and a slippery slope standpoint. As Cloudflare itself pointed out in an August 31 blog post, the company's private decisions to terminate services to 8chan and the Daily Stormer were followed by "a dramatic increase in authoritarian regimes attempting to have us terminate security services for human rights organizations — often citing the language from our own justification back to us."
We already have ways of dealing with the relatively small amount of actually illegal online content without banning whole web forums or trafficking in guilt by association.
And the speedy return of Kiwi Farms demonstrates that the latter is not just illiberal but also futile.
 
People want to censor because they are incompetent at persuading other people the doubleplusbad speech is wrong and shouldn't be believed. People believe the doubleplusbad speech

When you're too incompetent to win the rhetoric battle, shut the other person up

So why is it a surprise that these people are also incompetent at censorship itself?
So it's "bad speech" now, right? I mean, Paypal had the term "bad speech", because they know deep down that it isn't "hate speech", so they just broaden it and redefine it as "bad speech", right?
It's "bad speech" because it goes against the progressive party line. "Anyone who disagrees with us is Hitler" is one of the core tenets of progressivism; all disagreement and criticism is illegitimate, since anyone who disagrees with or criticizes progressives is a bad-faith troll. There can be no reasoning, negotiation, compromise, or coexistence with bad-faith trolls. The only thing to do is eliminate them.
 
We never left, faggots. And I don't think that the idea that people born with XY chromosomes and a penis and testicles will never really be women, and that they shouldn't have such a disproportionate level of power and authority over society as a minority demographic (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few), is a very radical one these days. Likewise, laughing and ridiculing people who of their own volition openly make pathetic spectacles of themselves on public forums is neither extreme or uncommon. Most people feel this way to some degree. It's just that society has allowed mentally ill, out-of-touch people with an unwarranted sense of self-importance to dictate what is and isn't radical, extreme, and appropriate to discuss on the internet today.
 
I guess from the point of alot of spergs Kiwifarms being back is like this

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Also this part: "No group has ever gotten less radicalized by being driven underground,"

I guess we should propose that Null gets the peace prize for keeping us autists peaceful by simply offering a platform for us to vent at idiots all over the world.
 
Title needs to put quotes around "bad speech" but otherwise yeah I guess it's supportive.
They don't need to put quotes around it because "bad speech" is so ambiguous. The general discourse here certainly isn't uplifting, so I wouldn't call it "good speech".
 
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This fedpost that was up for twenty minutes and was screencapped and put on twatter within two totally justified it all.
 
>bad speech

I guess they can't legally call it hate speech without opening themselves up to potential litigation, not that hate speech is or should be legislated against anyway. Big tech already kinda does that to begin with.

Calling it "bad speech" is like, the adult equivalent of saying "no-no words," which I suppose is fitting considering journos are all socially cloistered manchildren.
 
Nigger, faggot, tranny.

Three words that makes people uncomfortable and if they are uncomfortable you are a bad person, and between you and Hitler there is no difference.

You must be destroyed because you make people uncomfortable.

That's society today. Words on the internet are enough as to censor you, ban you, put you in jail and even kill you.
 
This fedpost that was up for twenty minutes and was screencapped and put on twatter within two totally justified it all.
It is suspicious, but thinking about it in hindsight, I've posted things other people have said within two minutes myself. You have to either be at the right place at the right time or be autistically obsessed to catch said content within two minutes. I think my issue is more that no one allowed the moderation team time to sweep up the glow post. There are far more threatening things said on Twitter that have been left posted far longer.
 
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