Leftist Memes - Or lack thereof...

White Trash Motorsport said:
Absolutely. Imperialism is only an issue when whytpipo did it, the Aztecs, Mongols, Ottomans, Zulus, Mughals etc etc don’t count because they’re brown. You could be the nastiest bastards ever, the Aztecs come pretty close what with the giant towers of skulls and everything, but noooo brown so its fine and any criticism is problematic because it’s part of their rich cultural heritage and how dare you interpret it though a westernised lens that’s just a colonialist mindset, or some such incredibly convenient pseudo intellectual bollox.
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Funnily the Aztecs fell not because of the Spanish, but because their expansionism pitted them in a perpetual war against the city of Tlaxcala (in said war captured enemies were sacrificed by the Aztecs). Additionally, their brutality induced many Nahua cities to revolt against the Aztec Empire attacking its capital Tenochtitlan together with Tlaxcala. Now truth be told, the Spanish (who were allied with the Anti-Aztec Coalition) greatly shortened the siege because their cannons decimated the powerful walls of Tenochtitlan. Generally, the Spanish were extremely lucky that the Nahua nations were in a state of political turmoil and constant warfare which allowed Cortez to exploit political divisions for his benefit. However, the most important factor which allowed Cortez to actually conquer those lands, was that the Nahua peoples lacked immunity to European diseases. Those pandemics killed potentially millions and devastated the Nahua societal fabric.
 
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Adolphin said:
Funnily the Aztecs fell not because of the Spanish, but because their expansionism pitted them in a perpetual war against the city of Tlaxcala (in said war captured enemies were sacrificed by the Aztecs). Additionally, their brutality induced many Nahua cities to revolt against the Aztec Empire attacking its capital Tenochtitlan together with Tlaxcala. Now truth be told, the Spanish (who were allied with the Anti-Aztec Coalition) greatly shortened the siege because their cannons decimated the powerful walls of Tenochtitlan. Generally, the Spanish were extremely lucky that the Nahua nations were in a state of political turmoil and constant warfare which allowed Cortez to exploit political divisions for his benefit. However, the most important factor which allowed Cortez to actually conquer those lands, was that the Nahua peoples lacked immunity to European diseases. Those pandemics killed potentially millions and devastated the Nahua societal fabric.
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Yup, the Spanish would have had far more trouble if the Aztecs hadn't already been enormously unpopular, but this is a conversation based on the inconvenient facts of actual history rather than agenda driven bullshit. For evidence that the Spanish were a bunch of properly nasty bastards we dont even need to cross the Atlantic, just look at what they did to the Dutch in the 16th century. Nobody ever talks about that.
 
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White Trash Motorsport said:
Yup, the Spanish would have had far more trouble if the Aztecs hadn't already been enormously unpopular, but this is a conversation based on the inconvenient facts of actual history rather than agenda driven bullshit. For evidence that the Spanish were a bunch of properly nasty bastards we dont even need to cross the Atlantic, just look at what they did to the Dutch in the 16th century. Nobody ever talks about that.
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The 16th and 17th Centuries in European history are full to the brim with brutalities, massacres, witch hunts, and whatever you want. The Thirty Years War killed 1/3rd of the German populace.
 
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Adolphin said:
The 16th and 17th Centuries in European history are full to the brim with brutalities, massacres, witch hunts, and whatever you want. The Thirty Years War killed 1/3rd of the German populace.
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Not many oppression points to be gained with that one, or the Ottomans banging on the gates of Vienna.
 
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Adolphin said:
Especially since the Aztec Empire was the definition of a brutal imperialist state that had subjugated many other cities and peoples. Also, the Aztecs requested each year a tribute that included people that were to be sacrificed to the Aztec gods.
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Dude, they've fucked with Aztec history to the point where Human Sacrificing was Ok and good because the people who were being sacrificed gave consent so it's not bad in any way.
 
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Marissa Moira said:
Dude, they've fucked with Aztec history to the point where Human Sacrificing was Ok and good because the people who were being sacrificed gave consent so it's not bad in any way.
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I still find doubt that the children getting their fingernails ripped out so they would cry consented to being sacrificed.
 
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Flaming Insignias said:
I still find doubt that the children getting their fingernails ripped out so they would cry consented to being sacrificed.
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You need to cruise through a few early american text books and museum exhibits, there's many claims in those like "They would've been able to domesticate horses and dogs perfectly fine if they were just left alone and the white settlers and conquistadors didn't come!".

But then you go over to Paleontology exhibits and you find out horses were extinct in the Americas until the Spanish re-introduced them, and the Americas pretty much just has Llamas and nothing else when it came to domesticated animals and the vast majority of modern day domesticated animals came from Europe or Asia who had no counterpart in the Americas.
 
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Marissa Moira said:
You need to cruise through a few early american text books and museum exhibits, there's many claims in those like "They would've been able to domesticate horses and dogs perfectly fine if they were just left alone and the white settlers and conquistadors didn't come!".

But then you go over to Paleontology exhibits and you find out horses were extinct in the Americas until the Spanish re-introduced them, and the Americas pretty much just has Llamas and nothing else when it came to domesticated animals and the vast majority of modern day domesticated animals came from Europe or Asia who had no counterpart in the Americas.
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The pre-Columbians were barely beyond the Stone Age by the point that Eurasia had basically moved to steel and gunpowder. They weren’t going to progress much more than they had, and thank god they didn’t.
 
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Flaming Insignias said:
The pre-Columbians were barely beyond the Stone Age by the point that Eurasia had basically moved to steel and gunpowder. They weren’t going to progress much more than they had, and thank god they didn’t.
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The Pre-Columbian civilisations are bizarre in the manner that they lacked certain important innovations of Eurasian civilisations, yet they managed to develop massive urban centres and advanced social structures. For example, the Pre-Columbians failed to invent the wheel (truth be told they lacked any suitable animals which would be useful to pull carriages), they did not have advanced metallurgy, neither ever built seafaring vessels, yet their cities surpassed any European one in size and grandeur when the Spaniards landed. Generally, the complicated social fabric of their civilisation really contrasts with their backwards technological evolution. As a side note, the massive Inca Empire had a bizarre economic system in which the state possessed and distributed all resources, essentially a form of primitive central planning.
 
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