Legend of the Galactic Heroes

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  • «Paul von Oberstein did nothing wrong». Actually, yes, he did.
What did he do wrong? Seemingly his evilest act (letting a planet get nuked by the enemy) finished the civil war instantly. He was generally a pragmatist that did everything morally questionable on the side while letting other know he was responsible to make himself be a Satan so Reinhart will appear blameless.
 
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What did he do wrong? Seemingly his evilest act (letting a planet get nuked by the enemy) finished the civil war instantly. He was generally a pragmatist that did everything morally questionable on the side while letting other know he was responsible to make himself be a Satan so Reinhart will appear blameless.

Oberstein, when he wasn't merely reflecting Reinhardt's own thoughts back at Reinhardt, gave Machiavellian advice, i.e., meaningless and self-destructive cruelty, masquerading as clever pragmatism. It is pointed in the story that most people with two brain cells to rub together figured out that Reinhardt allowed the nuclear attack on Westerland to happen, with the very fact that it was recorded serving as a proof, most people just kept their mouths shut, because at that point Reinhardt was already winning overwhelmingly (do note that Westerland happens immediately after both of the nobles' main fleets were decisively defeated). But Kirheis did not, and his subsequent quarrel with Reinhardt directly led to his death. So, Oberstein's advice was the root cause of literally every major setback the Reinhardt empire suffered thereafter, as they all basically stemmed from the fact that Reinhardt no longer had an admiral who combined capability for independent leadership and tactical skill with absolute loyalty.
 
Oberstein, when he wasn't merely reflecting Reinhardt's own thoughts back at Reinhardt, gave Machiavellian advice, i.e., meaningless and self-destructive cruelty, masquerading as clever pragmatism. It is pointed in the story that most people with two brain cells to rub together figured out that Reinhardt allowed the nuclear attack on Westerland to happen, with the very fact that it was recorded serving as a proof, most people just kept their mouths shut, because at that point Reinhardt was already winning overwhelmingly (do note that Westerland happens immediately after both of the nobles' main fleets were decisively defeated). But Kirheis did not, and his subsequent quarrel with Reinhardt directly led to his death. So, Oberstein's advice was the root cause of literally every major setback the Reinhardt empire suffered thereafter, as they all basically stemmed from the fact that Reinhardt no longer had an admiral who combined capability for independent leadership and tactical skill with absolute loyalty.
You are being too hard on my man Ober(((stein))). You could just as easily argue that having the civil war go for more years would have changed the balance of power to the point that the total dominance of the Empire resource wise wasn't a factor, and some of Reinhardt's staff could have died in the interim. Creating a want of a nail scenario.

Especially when Reinhardt's would have died young anyways and without the pragmatic decisions he would have had a half formed empire.
 
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Watched it a long time ago. I like that they gave both sides a fair shake, pointing out the good and the bad of both democracy and the monarchy. i was more of a fan of the Reinhardt Faction since their entire cast has so many charismatic characters with their own flaws that made them feel human (looking at you Reuenthal) while the democracy faction was mostly carried by Yang.

The sub plot with Phezzan (not Isreal) funding the both sides war effort and Adrian Rubinsky storyline was also done well.
 
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Watched it a long time ago. i like that they gave both sides a fair shake, pointing out the good and the bad of both democracy and the monarchy. i was more of a fan of the Reinhardt Faction since their entire cast has so many charismatic characters with their own flaws that made them feel human (looking at you Reuenthal) while the democracy faction was mostly carried by Yang.

The sub plot with Phezzan (not isreal) funding the both sides war effort and Adrian Rubinsky storyline was also done well.

Noticed you didn't mention anything about the terraists*

I'm aware Phezzan and Rubinsky is vaguely connected to the terraists but lets be real they're different factions
 
I honestly found them boring and uninteresting.
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They were really badly utilized. The topic of religion and government is very interesting but the Terraists were more of a tiny cult that only manages to do big shit to progress that plot. It would have been interesting especially in the more conservative empire.
 
Every relationship Reinhard has is poisoned by the Empire's system of having servants and masters. Everybody wants to use him for their goals from his wife to his most loyal servants (except for perhaps Kircheis, a friend he was never able to replace). Every relationship that everybody in that country has is about being used or using somebody.
I definitely don't see it that way. At least when it comes to the admirals, they have true and honest admiration and respect for Reinhard. Hell, even when you go down ranks for the most part it's more actual deference and respect than people shitting themselves because rank. Bittenfeld I would classify as a walking disaster for the most part yet they guy was so loved by those under him that they were willing to risk a civil war blowing up due to Oberstein doing Oberstein things AND just after Reuenthal's rebellion got quelled. If anything, the people of the empire are TOO loyal to the people closest to them.

I just see it for the most part as a metaphore of how strong men with strong convictions just happen to attract people. And that is the impressive aspect of of the autocracy regime, when under strong men with strong vision amazing things can be achieved. Of course, it's greatest weakness is that it only works while said men exist AND can keep up with things. Reinhard's age just happened to be chuck full of these sort of people.

Also, the democracy always seemed limp wristed faggots to me outside of Yang's circle and I think that side of the conflict lost a lot of soul when Julian kid wonder basically became supreme commander. Hell, some of the biggest badasses in the Free Planets Alliance were defectors like Merkatz and Schenkopp.
At the same time the reformer Hildegard basically rules the empire and probably killed Reinhard to do that.
I don't know if this is a remake thing, but I fail to see where you would ever conclude Hildegard would touch any hair of Reinhard with ill intent. She truly loved him and was a fantastic balance to him that sort of replaced Kircheis during a time where Reinhard was lacking somebody that would be critical of him.
Watched it a long time ago. I like that they gave both sides a fair shake, pointing out the good and the bad of both democracy and the monarchy. i was more of a fan of the Reinhardt Faction since their entire cast has so many charismatic characters with their own flaws that made them feel human (looking at you Reuenthal) while the democracy faction was mostly carried by Yang.
Definitely. Tang was the soul of the FPA faction. A man very aware of it's failings, frustrated by him, but that still believed in them. He was aware of how impressive Reinhard was, and what he represented, yet opposed him with the absolute conviction that one man should not have the world on his hand, since what happens when that man banishes? Yang could have perfectly done a coup of the FPA and become a mirror to Reinhard, things would have definitely worked better under his watchful eye and the relevant people would have been all for it, but it goes so much against his core beliefs that he would never dare.

Julian is fine... but it just feels like Death Note, where N was the soul of pursuing Kira, and once he dies and is replaced, that side loses so much appeal it's insane. Though LoGH at least properly set up Julian. But it still rubs me the wrong way that a kid that was the protege of Yang gets ascended to general and specially that he wouldn't be schmoozed by the ruling politicians to curry his favor or there wouldn't be chains of favors to put somebody else in the role of supreme commander.
The sub plot with Phezzan (not Isreal) funding the both sides war effort and Adrian Rubinsky storyline was also done well.
Agreed. One of the few times in fiction where the hand in the shadows is presented properly.
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They were really badly utilized. The topic of religion and government is very interesting but the Terraists were more of a tiny cult that only manages to do big shit to progress that plot. It would have been interesting especially in the more conservative empire.
That as well, the Terraists were a huge let down and were used in the end mostly to justify some action pieces here and there.

Also, while doing some wiki surfing to remember things, I see the remake's new art direction and I fucking hate it.
 
Yang could have perfectly done a coup of the FPA and become a mirror to Reinhard, things would have definitely worked better under his watchful eye and the relevant people would have been all for it, but it goes so much against his core beliefs that he would never dare.
Yang could and should have engaged in the political system to become president and get the democracy side shit in order. It wouldn't even go in any against the ideas of democracy. I really see it as the author biggest misunderstanding of the idea of democracy. Career politicians are absolutely the worst kind of elected officials in existence. Having a career in anything beforehand at least shows merit, and at the end you trust the ability of the public to choose correctly.

But it ends up not mattering anyways because the plot is too railroaded towards the ending conclusion of Julian continuing Yang's tradition. Though even that suicide charge I found to be too melodramatic. It would have been cool had Julian turned out to be a master strategist of a different breed than anyone else due to having experience in every facet of war, but it never turned up.
 
Yang could and should have engaged in the political system to become president and get the democracy side shit in order. It wouldn't even go in any against the ideas of democracy. I really see it as the author biggest misunderstanding of the idea of democracy. Career politicians are absolutely the worst kind of elected officials in existence. Having a career in anything beforehand at least shows merit, and at the end you trust the ability of the public to choose correctly.

But it ends up not mattering anyways because the plot is too railroaded towards the ending conclusion of Julian continuing Yang's tradition. Though even that suicide charge I found to be too melodramatic. It would have been cool had Julian turned out to be a master strategist of a different breed than anyone else due to having experience in every facet of war, but it never turned up.

With his El-Facil popularity he would have only become a middling politician, and his last hope of the Republic status only came when the country was fucked. The second Reinhard took power the FPA lost as he was a leader willing to use the full force of the Empire to unite the galaxy. By numbers alone the FPA was doomed.

I don't know if this is a remake thing, but I fail to see where you would ever conclude Hildegard would touch any hair of Reinhard with ill intent. She truly loved him and was a fantastic balance to him that sort of replaced Kircheis during a time where Reinhard was lacking somebody that would be critical of him.

But she wasn't Kircheis. She had her own ambitions and was willing to go against him.

Oberstein doing Oberstein things

Yang is the heart and soul of the FPA for his idealism, but the heart and soul of the Empire is Oberstein. The man embodies pragmatism. He has no friends, and is entirely dedicated to the greater good.
Autocracy can only be "good" with men like this around.
 
With his El-Facil popularity he would have only become a middling politician, and his last hope of the Republic status only came when the country was fucked. The second Reinhard took power the FPA lost as he was a leader willing to use the full force of the Empire to unite the galaxy. By numbers alone the FPA was doomed.
I don't see a reason why he couldn't try to go to a presidency rather than start on the bottom. Anyways the FPA main chance was doing USA style interference over at the Empire with assassinations and planned revolts to weaken the Empire internally to waste their time until the rot gets back in. Instead the most they did was the absolutely retarded child Emperor plan.
Yang is the heart and soul of the FPA for his idealism, but the heart and soul of the Empire is Oberstein. The man embodies pragmatism. He has no friends, and is entirely dedicated to the greater good.
Autocracy can only be "good" with men like this around.
I'd argue that his death was far worse for the Empire than Reinhard's death. Without some to do the dirty work and a bunch of "pure hearted" military men at the helm, the Empire would very fast have a coup by sharks smelling the blood in the water.
 
I'm aware Phezzan and Rubinsky is vaguely connected to the terraists but lets be real they're different factions.
Frankly both amounted to the author's comment on the fates of shadowy schemers at the time of tumult. Phezzan served itself to Reinhardt on a silver platter thanks to not even considering the question of "but what insurance would we have in case the fox decides to act like a fox after we let him into our henhouse"? Terraists had the success of their master plan that took many centuries hinge on a single half-baked assassination plot, and actually trusted fucking Trunicht. It was implied that their assassination branch is top-notch, but given the actual events, that was just smoke and mirrors and Rubinsky's paranoia.
 
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