Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

I disagree, from what I've played of the NES original, spruced up graphics and a little expansion would make for a perfectly solid little game.

I've since learned they DID make a remake of Zelda 1 for the Satellaview, looking at screens of that is eerie close to what I had in my mind's eye, so there was already some precedence.

I just think it's a shame there wasn't any other NES GBA remake than Zero Mission, would have been cool to see something else.

I consider A Link to the Past to be the Zero Mission style remake of Zelda 1. ALTTP is what Zelda 1 was supposed to be in my opinion. Maybe that's why it was not a sequel like Zelda 2 (or Awakening).

 

[Sergeant Major Buzzkill]

The people in this thread deserve a gay Zelda Manga. So many awful takes. Go play Metal Gear.

Let me play my baby games in peace, fag.

 

[ScurvyRat]

Still a year away till BOTW2. Hopefully, the wait will be worth it.

Thinking back to Skyward Sword, that game actually had a bit of a rocky development. A lot of the development at the beginning was marred with disagreements between Aonuma and Miyamoto in regards to the controls, as they couldn't seem to come to a consensus on how they should be implemented. By the time full production was in swing, there was only a year and a half before it launched, and even then, it was filled with conflict over the design, setting, art style, and more, to the point that many elements were cut from the final build (all the ground sections were supposed to be connected for just one example).

Still, I don't think the game was bad, just underwhelming. In many ways, it could be seen as a prototype for what BOTW would become.

The only real piece of criticism that people have for Skyward Sword is the motion controls.
The dungeon design is better than WW or TP. The setting is unique to the franchise. The story is an interesting twist on the classic formula. The same people who will complain about it being "repetitive" or re-using areas on the map will praise the 2-d games for doing the same thing. It's the only LoZ game without Ganon, which alone is worthy of a great deal of praise.

I've yet to see any real criticism for the game outside of 'muh motion controls'
People just get on the bandwagon of hating on Skyward Sword and refuse to think for themselves, like usual. SS is the most innovative LoZ title before BotW

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

ALTTP is what Zelda 1 was supposed to be in my opinion. Maybe that's why it was not a sequel like Zelda 2 (or Awakening).

Pretty much. There's a reason Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time were both marketed as the "beginning of the saga". They are both basically remakes with more/different flavor storytelling.

SS is the most innovative LoZ title before BotW

Innovation does not mean it's good or even fun. It's why I don't give people shit for hating Breath of the Wild, cause I can recognize their arguments for why it sucks even if I enjoyed it the first time I played it.

 

[Akashic Retard]

Legend of Zelda is a children's game

 

[ScurvyRat]

Legend of Zelda is a children's game

please allow me to refer you to:

Let me play my baby games in peace, fag.

 

[Cheerlead-in-Chief]

I have "Hyrule Historia", but just lovingly look at the concept art of the older games.

 

[Akashic Retard]

please allow me to refer you to:

No

 

[Sergeant Major Buzzkill]

No

No.

 

[Never Scored]

No

No.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Man, fuck remakes. I just want moar games

It's crazy that over the last 15 years and change we've only had a grand total of two mainline Zeldas, though we've had plenty of spinoffs and remakes/remasters/re-releases.

You wish that Nintendo could have kept the pace of the N64 where we had Ocarina and then we Majora's Mask, the initial take on a new formula and then a weird, more experimental take on that formula.

But after that point it's either a gross gen game or an exclusive, not two exclusives, Nintendo also got in the habit of reinventing the wheel with every new entry, BOTW2 is actually bucking that trend.

I don't know about anyone else but I'd trade Twilight Princess for a GameCube Wind Waker 2 in an instant, it's crazy to me that it's beautiful graphics style was only utilized ONCE (though BOTW obviously takes some influence)

BotW is a solid 10/10 for me. Near fucking perfection as both an open world game and as a Zelda game. People who shit on it are just psueds

It's easily one of the best games I've ever played, I can understand the criticisms but it's insane to me that people think that makes it a bad game, what it does wrong is greatly outweighed by what it does right.

But it's always going to be hip to cry "overrated!" when something remarkable comes along.

I consider A Link to the Past to be the Zero Mission style remake of Zelda 1. ALTTP is what Zelda 1 was supposed to be in my opinion. Maybe that's why it was not a sequel like Zelda 2 (or Awakening).

Agreed, the NES Zelda is very dated, it's ground breaking for the time but the technology just wasn't really there yet, imo the series doesn't start in earnest until A Link To The Past, that's what made the series the ahem, legend it is today.

The only real piece of criticism that people have for Skyward Sword is the motion controls.
The dungeon design is better than WW or TP. The setting is unique to the franchise. The story is an interesting twist on the classic formula. The same people who will complain about it being "repetitive" or re-using areas on the map will praise the 2-d games for doing the same thing. It's the only LoZ game without Ganon, which alone is worthy of a great deal of praise.

I've yet to see any real criticism for the game outside of 'muh motion controls'
People just get on the bandwagon of hating on Skyward Sword and refuse to think for themselves, like usual. SS is the most innovative LoZ title before BotW

I can't speak for SS personally since I haven't played it yet, but bandwagon hopping and not thinking for themselves is indeed what most people do.

But from what I've seen/read I would say my impression of SS is that it is a weaker entry, but I still intend to play it for myself one day and give it a fair try, maybe I'll change my mind.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

BotW is a solid 10/10 for me. Near fucking perfection as both an open world game and as a Zelda game. People who shit on it are just psueds

They threw away the design structure that's worked since LttP to devolve into what feels like a 3D NES game. The crazy thing is they did that on purpose.

Skyrim and Fallout 3/New Vegas feel more alive as open world games, and they're ancient. Glad you enjoy it, but it's a mediocre game, and actually bad as a Zelda game specifically.

 

[Cheerlead-in-Chief]

They threw away the design structure that's worked since LttP to devolve into what feels like a 3D NES game. The crazy thing is they did that on purpose.

Skyrim and Fallout 3/New Vegas feel more alive as open world games, and they're ancient. Glad you enjoy it, but it's a mediocre game, and actually bad as a Zelda game specifically.

I was barely able to play the demo at GameStop. (Like, barely moving at the tutorial. Give me the puzzle pieces/trash cans)
I only played "Smash Bros. Melee"/Brawl (Once) for reference.

 

[Never Scored]

They threw away the design structure that's worked since LttP to devolve into what feels like a 3D NES game. The crazy thing is they did that on purpose.

The design structure of the 3D Zeldas from OOT to Skyward Sword is nothing like Lttp. Just about the only thing they have in common is they are Zelda games and you need to collect items to progress. Goof Troop for SNES has more in common with Lttp than Twilight Princess does.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

The design structure of the 3D Zeldas from OOT to Skyward Sword is nothing like Lttp

3 starter dungeons before collecting the master sword, then a world map change followed by 8 more dungeons climaxing with a final dungeon before facing Ganon.

That's not to also mention the parallels between the two Agahnim fights and Phantom Ganon/Ganondorf.

You're right about the rest, but it's absolutely clear that LttP was a re do of LoZ, and OoT was a redo of LttP.

 

[Never Scored]

3 starter dungeons before collecting the master sword, then a world map change followed by 8 more dungeons climaxing with a final dungeon before facing Ganon.

That's not to also mention the parallels between the two Agahnim fights and Phantom Ganon/Ganondorf.

You're right about the rest, but it's absolutely clear that LttP was a re do of LoZ, and OoT was a redo of LttP.

I still think OOT is different enough with it demphasis of combat in favour of puzzle solving and exploring, and the introduction of cinematics and tutorials. Regardless, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, etc are nothing like Lttp structurally, so even if you make an allowance for OOT, you're still talking 24 years ago..

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

I still think OOT is different enough with it demphasis of combat for puzzle solving and exploring,

I don't know how you could say OoT deemphasized combat with Z-targeting and enemies like stalfos, lizalfos, iron knuckles and an entire sub boss dedicated to Dark Link. If anything, it's combat is what differentiates it from the 2D zeldas far more than any puzzle solving and exploration. Especially when you consider how fucking vague Zelda 1 was, how most of the puzzles were still "push block onto switch" or "collect rupees scattered in room" and how it flat out gave you the stone of agony to help you find the hidden caves and holes.

 

[Dom Cruise]

I can understand the desire for more traditional dungeons in BOTW, it would have been the best of both worlds, but is it not cool that everything is essentially optional and you could in theory march right into the castle and take down Ganon? (has anyone managed to do that?) I thought gamers loved that crazy level of freedom.

It did also need a third thing between the dynamic of overworld and shrines, a few unique underground areas to discover ala below the tombstone in Ocarina of Time, this seems to be what BOTW2 is doing with going into the sky I guess?

And it did need a deeper story, there's essentially no story, there's setup, backstory and conclusion with nothing much at all in between, it lacks the twists and turns of OOT's story.

And personally, I wish it had something like the Ghost Ship in Wind Waker, of which there are a few things like that, but I mean something literally ghostly, it was kind of lacking those spooky elements like Poes and Redeads.

But the essence of Zelda is exploration and discovery, not dungeon crawling and BOTW delivered that in spades, not only with the beautifully designed open world but the physics engine as well.

 

[NerdShamer]

you could in theory march right into the castle and take down Ganon? (has anyone managed to do that?)

I did.

Granted, I cheated by using the Master Sword; but the final fights were kind of boring.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I still think OOT is different enough with it demphasis of combat in favour of puzzle solving and exploring, and the introduction of cinematics and tutorials. Regardless, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, etc are nothing like Lttp structurally, so even if you make an allowance for OOT, you're still talking 24 years ago..

Both LttP and OoT have plenty of combat, puzzle solving, and exploration. There's a little more exploration in OoT but that comes with the territory of being a Zelda game adapted to 3D, and it isn't so much more that the formula is unrecognizable. OoT is basically LttP in 3D, it feels remarkably similar, they did an even better job adapting Zelda to 3D than Mario imo.

There were definitely a lot more cinematic elements in OoT, but LttP was fairly cinematic for a game back then, especially for a non-JRPG. As for tutorials, they were more necessary in OoT because 3D was new, it was legitimately confusing to people. Some concessions had to be made in tutorializing it, they kept it reasonable.

Wind Waker was OoT but with water and cell shaded graphics, a lighter tone, etc. The actual core structure is virtually identical. Majora's Mask, like some Zeldas, mixed it up more than others, but gimmicks aside it's very clearly in the same style.

To look at another game and franchise entirely, from a different developer, Star Fox Adventures is more like a proper Zelda game than BotW. It was actually disparagingly referred to as a Zelda clone. If you took BotW back in time and plopped it before or after OoT, nobody would call it a Zelda clone. "Inspired by Zelda", but not a clone, because even by time SFA was released the formula was well established and recognizable. BotW doesn't fit it.

Maybe that's good, but I don't like it.